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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent?
    #21574232 - 04/21/15 03:02 AM (9 years, 29 days ago)

These jars were inoculated with a LGC. 4 jars out of 23 total have bacteria. When I can see the seed on the glass that's surrounded by mycelium, yet the seed is not colonized. I can also see a little wetness around the seed. I've come to realize that it's bacteria (I think) which will cause my bulk sub to contaminate before the 1st flush.

I used flame sterilization and the culture jar was clean and 100% colonized. The culture did NOT have any bacteria that I could see on the glass on the individual seed. I do a 24 hour soak after rinsing the seeds multiple times until the pot of WBS water was clear. I PC for 1.5 hours and then I dry them on towels overnight so they do not stick to my hand and they rattle in the jars. This way they're hydrated, but not wet to the touch.

What might cause the bacteria? See below.
My other question is the first pic... is this considered 20% and ready to shake yet? Also what happens if you shake before 20%?



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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #21574382 - 04/21/15 05:23 AM (9 years, 29 days ago)

only pic that looks shady is the second-third one to me.
shake it now and see what happens.  when grains are pressed against the glass because of moisture, that can be a starting ground for bacteria, but not always.
i don't see any bacillus slime yet.

u can shake whenever u want.  with LC's and g2g's though, i usually only shake at inoc.  if distribution looks off, u can shake again.

if ur having recurring bacteria problems, up ur PC time to two hours and start with wedges to eliminate the liquid variable.


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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #21575484 - 04/21/15 08:04 AM (9 years, 29 days ago)

I like the idea of using wedges to eliminate the water content.

However, I've read numerous times that shaking a jar too much causes problems. Having the mycelium recover multiple times is bad for it's health. I've always read that you can only shake at 20-30%.

I use liquid grain cultures to inoculate at the moment. Wedges will be soon. So, if I use LGC, I ca shake more than twice? Once at inoculation and once at 20%

Also, when I do G2G, I shake initially when I put the agar wedge in the jar?


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Invisiblewowimflabbergasted
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #21575501 - 04/21/15 08:08 AM (9 years, 29 days ago)

You can shake whenever you want to, it's just recommended to shake at inoculation and then 30%.

Is using a wedge, I just roll it around the jar a bit. If transferring a whole pasty plate I shake the shit out of it.


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OfflineAdept
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #21575698 - 04/21/15 09:20 AM (9 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

DinkinFlicka84 said:
I PC for 1.5 hours and then I dry them on towels overnight so they do not stick to my hand and they rattle in the jars. This way they're hydrated, but not wet to the touch.





Can you explain in further detail what you mean by this?


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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: Adept]
    #21575787 - 04/21/15 10:03 AM (9 years, 29 days ago)

Adept:

I use wild bird seed as my medium for mycelium. I pressure cook the jars (after being rinsed thoroughly and soaked for 24 hours to germinate the seeds) for an hour and a half.

I think I see where I misspoke. After soaking the seeds for 24 hours, I boil for 10 min, then strain and shake so a lot of the steam pulls excess moisture off. Then I lay the seeds down on a towel or 2 to let dry further overnight. This way, they are dry to the touch, but they're hydrated on the inside.

I definitely don't put the seeds on a towel AFTER I PC them. HAHA. PCing is the last thing I do before inoculating.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #21575792 - 04/21/15 10:05 AM (9 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

DinkinFlicka84 said:
Adept:

I use wild bird seed as my medium for mycelium. I pressure cook the jars (after being rinsed thoroughly and soaked for 24 hours to germinate the seeds) for an hour and a half.



We do not soak them so they germinate, we soak them for the proper moisture content.

We soak them in hot water to PREVENT them from germinating.....we want mycellium to grow on them, we do not want them to grow.

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OfflineAdept
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #21575958 - 04/21/15 11:16 AM (9 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

DinkinFlicka84 said:
I definitely don't put the seeds on a towel AFTER I PC them. HAHA. PCing is the last thing I do before inoculating.




Got it, I just wanted to be clear.  That certainly would be a possible cause of contamination if you had.


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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: PussyFart]
    #21578778 - 04/22/15 12:18 AM (9 years, 28 days ago)

I misspoke. I soak them in boiling hot water for 24 hours to keep them from germinating. I get the water to a simmer then I let sit for a full day.


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Edited by DinkinFlicka84 (04/22/15 12:18 AM)

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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #21582967 - 04/23/15 05:04 AM (9 years, 27 days ago)

How do I keep my WBS from getting that bacteria? It's fairly common and I'm sure there has to be something I can do to prevent it.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #21582975 - 04/23/15 05:08 AM (9 years, 27 days ago)

dry the wbs better before loading in jars and PC, and use less spore solution if you're inoc'ing with a syringe!

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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #21582984 - 04/23/15 05:12 AM (9 years, 27 days ago)

try upping ur PC time to two hours.

if u aren't using agar to inoculate, then ur innoculant is still a variable because u don't know if its clean or not.

i used WBS as my first grain too.  had trouble prepping it, switched to Rye, never looked back.  sometimes if it looks like there is a good brand at HD w/o much corn, ill grab it, but the True Value shit i used when i first began growing i won't touch again.  almost impossible to get right.  if it was too dry, i didn't get bacteria, but colonization took forever.  if it was too wet, split grains galore.  some mixes are just terrible, old stock seeds and sweepings they bagged up and shipped out.  so maybe try switching grains or switching brands of WBS.


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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: spacechildo]
    #21583014 - 04/23/15 05:25 AM (9 years, 27 days ago)

Less spore solution might be a problem. I use about 1-2cc per jar.
Also, my seeds are first steamed off for about a minute, then laid on towels overnight to where they are dry to the touch.

I'll be doing more G2G with my agar, so hopefully that eliminates my bad spawn problem I've had for longer than I want to admit.


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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #21583018 - 04/23/15 05:26 AM (9 years, 27 days ago)

Well, with WBS colonization is fairly fast, but my subs almost ALWAYS get trich before the first or if I'm lucky, the 2nd flush.

Is rye even easier to prep?


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Confirm bacteria in WBS jar? How to prevent? [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #21583023 - 04/23/15 05:32 AM (9 years, 27 days ago)

for me, yes.
soak simmer load, like u are doing.  just comes out less sticky, and is more hardy IME.

i think its just easier to tell after the heat/simmer when its plump and ready to pull off the heat compared to WBS.  one kind of grain, one size, one hydration level is easier to achieve than 3-4 kinds of grains, 3-4 different sizes and hull thicknesses, which make even hydration for each seed hard to achieve IMO.  i can prep it well now, but thats only because i learned what proper grain moisture looked and felt like from switching and working with rye for so long.  but others have no issues with WBS, so...:shrug:

next time ur at a co-op or whole foods, grab 7-8 dry cups from bulk bin (or wheat berries, similar prep) and try it out.  won't be much $ cause ur only getting a few scoops, but that will let u know if u have an easier time prepping it or not w/o committing to a 50# bag.


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A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

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