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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineDroz
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Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH?
    #21565320 - 04/18/15 08:12 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Can we agree on this idea?

Let's not discuss what it is... because everyone thinks differently, some have faith in the truth their religion tells them, some come to realize on their own what their personal truth is.

I believe there is a truth.

I'm not saying I know what it is... i'm just saying there is one.

Do you agree or disagree?

-Droz


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Evolution of Time.

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: Droz]
    #21565501 - 04/18/15 09:16 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Can we agree that there are several?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: Droz]
    #21565708 - 04/18/15 10:17 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not even convinced the concept of "truth" is necessary or even useful.

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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: DieCommie]
    #21565790 - 04/18/15 10:37 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

without it how could one judge if someone is lying? seems useful in that regard


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dripping with fantasy

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OfflineMorphinTime
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: Droz]
    #21565830 - 04/18/15 10:51 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

"Truth is singular. Its 'versions' are mistruths."


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OfflineCosmopolite
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: MorphinTime]
    #21566231 - 04/19/15 02:00 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Socrates said this: "I only know one thing, and that is that i know nothing."

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: Droz]
    #21566370 - 04/19/15 05:04 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I believe I can Fly.  It's the landing I have doubts about.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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OfflineAlbertheisenhouer
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21566377 - 04/19/15 05:09 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I think there is one truth, but I doubt man is ever going to know what it is. If you are referring to origin of the universe/math/physics


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: quinn]
    #21566398 - 04/19/15 05:32 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
without it how could one judge if someone is lying? seems useful in that regard




Sure, but I don't think that is how the original poster is using the term (as the opposite of lying).

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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: DieCommie]
    #21566526 - 04/19/15 07:18 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

i dont think it is quite the opposite, or rather before you judge if someone is lying or telling the truth you need to establish what the truth actually is

e.g. if i say '..who me? i didnt steal the cookies from the cookie jar...' and you judge me to be lying, there is an implicit truth in your judgement namely that i did in fact steal them

if you agree with the above i dont think it is at odds with the OP with 'truth' being the implicit way things actually are


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dripping with fantasy

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OfflineDroz
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: quinn]
    #21567297 - 04/19/15 10:08 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Say you manifest your ending... there would be several.

But if the laws of the universe are in play there should be one solid truth. Like I said I have no idea what this one truth is...

It sounds logical to say that what happens when you die happens to everyone. Unless your religious and feel there are only TWO options. Heaven or Hell.

Scientifically there are laws in play of how the universe operates. I can only ponder that there should be ONE thing.

It's like I use to always search for answers, by me narrowing down, I have just recently come to consider there is ONE TRUTH.

I don't see how reincarnation and heaven and hell can exist together? Can they? Or is one right and the other wrong, or both?


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Evolution of Time.

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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: Droz]
    #21567386 - 04/19/15 10:24 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

well if you want the real Truth it's that the universe or our subconscious, our unspoken knowledge of that which is True (for they are all one and the same) is a craggy abyss of infinite darkness stretching back through the horror of time.. our feeble words, our knowledge, our tales of heaven and hell, our pathetic conscious lives are but flickers of comfort, fleeting light dancing on the surface of a bottomless ocean..


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dripping with fantasy

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: Droz]
    #21568367 - 04/19/15 02:45 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I subscribe to Perennialism.* IF, as I saw illustrated in BE HERE NOW over 40 years ago, that TRUTH = REALITY, then there is but ONE Truth. There is THAT which is Ultimately Real, an Eternal Verity that transcends finite comprehension of its nature. Yet we and everything else in existence has its being from this underlying Ultimate Reality, even if it is removed from our ordinary experience by our very nature. Logic dictates that this is true, IF the universe had a point of origin, as it arose from whatever preceded its existence - whatever 'IT' is.

Truth is more often used in its relative meanings - the truth of a proposition, verbal and/or mathematical, is 'true' if certain conditions are met. If a proposition, a hypothesis, describes and/or predicts given phenomena correctly, it is said to be true, and hence 'a' truth. But when Pontius Pilate allegedly asked Jesus of Nazareth "What is truth?," he was wise enough to grok Jesus' silence as the response, but unwise enough to wash his hands of the matter and give him over to a torture death (as per the story, not because I'm affirming this actually occurred). Very Presence, The Moment, What Is (Isness), is self-evident, existentially speaking. What the further implications are, the ontological Reality or Truth that sustains existence (Hinduism's Vishnu, The Preserver, mythically taken), is pure Mystery, and mythologizing it merely refers to THAT which is Mysteriously and Ultimately Real. Judaism says it poetically best by its signature prayer, "Shema Y'srael, Adonai Elohaynu, Adonai Echad" - "Hear O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is ONE." The LORD is The Way, the way things actually ARE, ARE being the operative word: "2nd person singular present and 1st, 2nd, 3rd person plural present of be." Being, not 'a' Being, but actual existence and potential existence (or whatever is ontologically prior to existence as form).

*The Perennial philosophy (Latin: philosophia perennis), also referred to as Perennialism, is a perspective in the philosophy of religion which views each of the world’s religious traditions as sharing a single, universal truth on which foundation all religious knowledge and doctrine has grown.
Agostino Steuco (1497–1548) coined the term philosophia perennis, drawing on the neo-Platonic philosophy of Marsilio Ficino (1433–1499) and Giovanni Pico della Mirandola (1463–94).
In the early 19th century this idea was popularised by the Transcendentalists. Towards the end of the 19th century the Theosophical Society further popularized the concept under the name of "Wisdom-Religion" or "Ancient Wisdom". In the 20th century it was popularized in the English-speaking world through Aldous Huxley's book The Perennial Philosophy as well as by the strands of thought which culminated in the New Age movement. - Safari Dictionary


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinecyber_messiah
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: Droz]
    #21568423 - 04/19/15 02:58 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I AGREE


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: Droz]
    #21568634 - 04/19/15 03:46 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

How do you know, and why do you assume, there to be one truth.  Couldn't it be, and might it even be likely, that there are layers all the way down?  That is, couldn't the cosmos be like a giant onion, only there is no center -- you just keep peeling back layers forever?  Can't the universe be infinite enough for that?  Isn't this just as reasonable as saying there is one final fundamental level?  Why assume?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21568925 - 04/19/15 05:07 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with the original poster, and I would give this example as another way of thinking about it, there is One Reality.  Can't we agree there is One?

I do think it's good to set up these kind of things - to form an agreement, or a universal understanding, it's helpful to get down to the basics.

The other thing I would add, is that it's the nature of all souls - no one has an exclusive claim on it.  This is actually borrowed from Vivekananda-

'All truth is eternal. Truth is nobody’s property; no race, no individual can lay any exclusive claim to it. Truth is the nature of all souls.'

The reason I think this is valuable is because it helps us from thinking, "Only I know the truth," etc., etc.  Everyone experiences truth when they wake up in the morning, hear a bird sing, etc., etc.

I do understand and agree with your statement that there might be infinite layers to the onion. . . Yet also I do believe there is One Reality - it's not that you and I are experiencing a totally different reality if we have different views, we're within the same Reality and we're co-creators in it. . .

One might say Reality is Truth and Truth is Reality etc. -- besides saying that truth is no one's exclusive property, etc., that's as far as I'll go right now. :-)

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21568985 - 04/19/15 05:24 PM (9 years, 30 days ago)

Well I think we need to separate things.  What you're saying is that you think there is an objective, consensus reality -- and with that I agree.  But this does not delimit the truth.  Our explicate reality is merely a subset realm of an infinite existence.  Let me analogize it this way:  It's very much like the debate in physics about whether there will be a final "TOE" -- theory of everything.  Droz seems to be saying he thinks there will, and I am disagreeing.  Even if I am right, it does not have anything to do with our reality, which is a set of materially manifest dimensions.  Our reality can be objective even if there is no TOE.  It just means its properties, which may essentially be imaginative and creative at root, do not have a fundamental limit.  I feel our reality is relatively autonomous, and objectively describable, but that there will be no theory of everything and that, therefore, there is not, technically, one truth which explains everything.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21569058 - 04/19/15 05:43 PM (9 years, 30 days ago)

That was very nice to read, and I will jump back into the conversation a little while later.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: Droz]
    #21570273 - 04/20/15 12:12 AM (9 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Droz said:
Can we agree on this idea?




I would not agree - because I believe it to be a moot point. What possible relevance could this have to our/my lives/life?


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Invisibletedias
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Re: Can we all agree that there is ONE TRUTH? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #21570437 - 04/20/15 02:20 AM (9 years, 30 days ago)

I'm guessing here you're asking "Is there an empirical truth in the universe?"?

I would say there is one empirical truth, Descartes' claim "I am thinking, therefore I exist".

It is a an empirical truth for myself, a sentient being, to utter "I exist". Some form of me must exist to think that thought, therefore it is true that i exist. I cannot say it is true that you guys exist, or true that this world I percieve exists (I could be a brain in a jar, for instance), but I can say it is true that I exist.

Is this a universal truth? I'd say yes.
If I am a brain in a jar, then my entire universe is of my own construct, and so if one were to argue "but you cant prove that when others say it it's true", I'd say "correct. But if the others don't exist, they must all be thoughts in my head, and so they cannot say "I think, therefore I exist" as they do not think.

It is universal in the sense that every sentient, thinking being (regardless of if you argue that there is only one; yourself), can utter the statement of "I think, therefore I exist", and have it true.

Sorry If I butchered this or it was difficult to understand- I've had a long day.


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:mushroom2:Such is Life:mushroom2:

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