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Invisibletekramrepus
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To all those who don't understand enlightenment.
    #2154865 - 12/03/03 01:32 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Enlightenment is the state in which you see Truth, or Reality.

Now, Truth will always be relevant...so let's not get confused here and think that an enlightened person is seeing the "Abolsolute Truth". While an Abolsute Truth does exist, it is not within human capacities, nor SHOULD be.


An enlightened being is one who see's the reality we exist in, with piercing awareness, and no interrferences to their senses (no drugs, no desires, no illusions, no self-image, no seperateness, etc)


Enlightenment can last seconds, or it can last lifetimes. There is no time limit on enlightenment. Also, enlightenment does not come with happiness, rather a deeper understanding the isn't effected much, if at all, by worldy desires and pleasures.


Consider this. From the time we incarnate back into this body, we lose our memory. The memory of all our past lives, and that which is beyond life itself. Imagine fully regaining this memory. That is what happened to buddha upon enlightenment.


Buddha never GAINED enlightenment. No one has. Enlightenment has been with us all along, we just can't see it. Everyone is born enlightened.




Have you ever been completely freed of thoughts, COMPLETELY free of desire? If you have, you know that you feel wonderful inside....empty, but full. You feel a wonderful feeling, but contrary to popular belief, it ISNT an ignorant blissful state.

You get to the point where you no longer desire food or water, nor life itself. You live because you Are. You live to help and benefit others, for you have already completed the work in this lifetime.


I've had many experiences like that, which are Enlightenment. Seeing things as they truthfully are. Many people I know have had similiar experiences.

Enlightenment is NOT something hard to achieve or reach. It takes discippline, compassion, LOVE, and awareness.

Those 4 tools will bring oneself to enlightenment, through technique.


If you are curious about techniques to achieve enligthenment, I suggest you read up on:

Tantra - TRUE tantra, not the sexual kind
Yoga - TRUE yoga, not the yoga focused on stretching
Meditation - TRUE meditation, not the meditation focused on spirituality or clearing a headache



Or you can simply do what you know is right and find one of the other 10,000 ways to reach enlightenment.


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2154882 - 12/03/03 01:38 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

You should write a book. You could call it "10,000 ways to enlightenment, for dummies".


There are infinite perspectives and patterns. Why limit "enlightenment" to anything?


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: sirreal]
    #2154898 - 12/03/03 01:44 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

> I've had many experiences like that, which are Enlightenment.

A very wise monk once told me, "Anybody that claims to be Enlightened, isn't."


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2154905 - 12/03/03 01:46 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting post, man. :thumbup:
Peace. 


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Seuss]
    #2154908 - 12/03/03 01:47 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I've had many experiences like that, which are Enlightenment.

A very wise monk once told me, "Anybody that claims to be Enlightened, isn't." 





Exactly!

I still haven't figured out what the word is supposed to mean.

Maybe that means I am enlightened? :tongue: 


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: sirreal]
    #2154927 - 12/03/03 01:51 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I don't agree, on drugs one could be more enlightened than sober, because I don't see all drugs as an impediment to my senses.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2154942 - 12/03/03 01:54 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said:
I don't agree, on drugs one could be more enlightened than sober.





It definitely seems that people who do certain drugs perceive themselves as being more enlightened.

Maybe we are?

Maybe realising that the possibilities are infinite is enlightenment?


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: sirreal]
    #2154958 - 12/03/03 02:00 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Enlightenment is quite the word. It means different things to different people.

I think he did a well enough job of describing what he meant when he used it. What he said, to me, made some sense.

And I say "Whoever claims to be a fireman, isn't."
:grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2155018 - 12/03/03 02:12 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Enlightenment is quite the word. It means different things to different people.

I think he did a well enough job of describing what he meant when he used it. What he said, to me, made some sense.

And I say "Whoever claims to be a fireman, isn't."
:grin:
Peace. 





Who ever claims to be a fireworks god isn't! :razz: 


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: sirreal]
    #2155040 - 12/03/03 02:16 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

> I still haven't figured out what the word is supposed to mean.
> Maybe that means I am enlightened?

Nah, just means your ignorant... at least that's the excuse I use... :wink:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: sirreal]
    #2155063 - 12/03/03 02:20 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

sirreal said:
Who ever claims to be a fireworks god isn't! :razz: 




This is what I think. Basically, being Enlightened could be described as a state of mind, right? We will go with the Enlightenment that he was describing. Being Enlightened is a state of being.

Well, I have never told someone that tells me they are happy "If you claim to be happy, you aren't." :grin:

Myself, I find Enlightened as just consciously being. Being highly aware. Life. I don't know. But if someone feels that they are Enlightened and they claim to be, I don't decide that they aren't. I don't know because I don't know what is in their mind.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2155124 - 12/03/03 02:31 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I will agree that just the fact that we are aware of our own particular and peculiar reality that that is some kind of basic enlightenment.

But come on, everyone has that. No one is special.

We can come up with infinite ways to express what we experience. We can come up with infinite ways to experience what is being expressed all around us.

So , yeah, we are all enlightened in that sense. if someone claims to be enlightened , and then claims someone else does not understand it, then they are being exclusive and ignorant in my opinion.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2155130 - 12/03/03 02:32 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

> Well, I have never told someone that tells me they are happy "If you claim to be happy, you aren't."

Yes, but happiness falls into duality... enlightenment does not. Therefore, if somebody is able to differentiate between being enlightened and not being enlightened, they are existing in a dualistic consciousness, hence they are not enlightened. That doesn't mean they have not been in an enlightened state in the past, just that at the moment they claim to be enlightened, they are not.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Seuss]
    #2155141 - 12/03/03 02:34 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Yes, but happiness falls into duality... enlightenment does not.  Therefore, if somebody is able to differentiate between being enlightened and not being enlightened, they are existing in a dualistic consciousness, hence they are not enlightened.  That doesn't mean they have not been in an enlightened state in the past, just that at the moment they claim to be enlightened, they are not. 




Okay, I can agree with that. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2155189 - 12/03/03 02:47 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I disagree. Duality is not a false mode of intellect, but it is not complete.

There is another object....one that is born from from each opposite of all dualities. The third figure, whatever you decide to call it.

Man and Women creates Child. Universe (father God) and Earth (Mother Goddess) produce life.




Duality to some extent is a reality, because if there was no bad, no good could exist. if there was no darkness, Light could not shine.



Some good reading for you guys:

Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu


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Offlinepattern
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2155261 - 12/03/03 03:05 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

An enlightened being is one who see's the reality we exist in, with piercing awareness, and no interrferences to their senses (no drugs, no desires, no illusions, no self-image, no seperateness, etc)




If an enlightened being is one who sees reality, but doesn't see drugs, then he is missing out on part of reality, so he isn't enlightened.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2155370 - 12/03/03 03:35 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Tantra - TRUE tantra, not the sexual kind

Sexual Tantra is the "true" kind.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2155412 - 12/03/03 03:46 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Buddha never GAINED enlightenment. No one has. Enlightenment has been with us all along, we just can't see it. Everyone is born enlightened.

Webster
gain: To obtain through effort or merit; achieve


Ok, so enligtenment cannot be achieved. Am with you so far.

Enlightenment is NOT something hard to achieve

Wait! You just said that it could not be achieved.

Webster
achieve: To attain with effort or despite difficulty


Swami no comprende. How do we achieve something that we already have, but that we cannot achieve? It takes effort and is difficult, but is not hard. *scratches head*

You get to the point where you no longer desire food or water, nor life itself.
I know people like that down at the sanitorium; more disconnected than enlightened.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinepattern
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Swami]
    #2155452 - 12/03/03 03:57 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Hmmm yeah... even after reading this thread, I still don't understand enlightenment. lol

If you subscribe to this magazine, maybe you'll find out!
http://www.wie.org/


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Seuss]
    #2156633 - 12/03/03 10:32 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I've had many experiences like that, which are Enlightenment.

A very wise monk once told me, "Anybody that claims to be Enlightened, isn't." 




Ok, now pay attention closely.  Here is where i draw the line.

Now, if one were to be in an enlightened state, there would be no desire to proclaim to others that they are indeed enlightened.  Correct?
However, he claimed to HAVE BEEN in enlightened states before.  In other words, he is not enlightened,rather, he has had glimpses and brief experiences of enlightenment.

When not CURRENTLY in a state of enlightenment, a person doesnt have that "no desire, no ego, etc" edge.  Which means, they have the presence of mind to tell others that they have "experienced" what it is to be enlightened.

You see what i am getting at?
Oh man, i am challenging an all mighty long time S&P goer!
And please, my opinion on this matter is not written in stone.  I ENCOURAGE you to try and change my mind  :grin:

peace, love, unity and justice for all
pz... 


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2156687 - 12/03/03 10:51 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

understanding enlightenment? is it something to be understood?


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: entiformatie]
    #2156776 - 12/03/03 11:22 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

only if you dont understand it


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Offlinejiva
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2157858 - 12/04/03 12:22 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds like all we have to do is remove the ego/fear/control barrier, as state which I call "Satori" and which anyone can experience briefly on high doses of many things, but its always fleeting...

Quote:

supermarket said:
Tantra - TRUE tantra, not the sexual kind
Yoga - TRUE yoga, not the yoga focused on stretching
Meditation - TRUE meditation, not the meditation focused on spirituality or clearing a headache





Sexual Tantra is a part of the whole Tantra (but only after you become a viira)
Assuming positions is a part of the whole Yoga (Asana)
And focusing on anything is a part of the whole Meditation (which is part of the whole Yoga (Dharana))


--------------------
i am another you


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Offlineannielicious
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2159086 - 12/04/03 08:32 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Do you think Enlightenment is anything like Self Actualization? Or are they both on different levels?


--------------------
"Everything that limits us, we have to put aside."  Jonathan Livingston Seagull


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Offlinejiva
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: annielicious]
    #2159176 - 12/04/03 08:59 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I would say "Self Actualization" is part of enlightment which is more like "Universal Actualization"


--------------------
i am another you


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Offlinestrangebrew

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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Great Scott]
    #2159246 - 12/04/03 09:26 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

supermarket, i think you wrote this thread to yourself. the very fact that you think you can explain enlightenment in a few lines, written on an internet message board is proof you dont understand it any better than the rest of us.

suess had the right idea:
"Anybody that claims to be Enlightened, isn't."


--------------------
i've always been mad like the most of us have


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Offlinejiva
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: strangebrew]
    #2159277 - 12/04/03 09:32 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know if there is a difference between "Enlightmentment" and "Satori" or if "Enlightenment" is perhaps a case to case thing. But I agree that someone who is "Enlightened" would have no desire to communiate such, nor would they have to, it would (i assume) be obvious. But if one were achieve and enlightened state or satori and then come down from the experience, it is viable that they could and would brag about it to their ego's content.


--------------------
i am another you


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: jiva]
    #2159637 - 12/04/03 11:16 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

If you consider that "proof", I think it is acceptable to say you base your evidence on weak facts, and therefore reach unscientific conclusions.


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Anonymous

Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2159643 - 12/04/03 11:18 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

enlightment is ego attached bullshit to me.

just my .02


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Offlinejiva
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: ]
    #2159655 - 12/04/03 11:26 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not in the business of proof, i'm in the business of consciousness and spirituality ^_^ if you can relate to satori with me, perhaps we can communicate.


--------------------
i am another you


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Anonymous

Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: jiva]
    #2159659 - 12/04/03 11:28 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

if you dont need proof you may as well be a christian, in my book.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: ]
    #2159769 - 12/05/03 12:16 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

"If you consider that "proof", I think it is acceptable to say you base your evidence on weak facts, and therefore reach unscientific conclusions. "


your conclusion were just as unscientific as any.

neat concepts to think about non of the less though

"if you dont need proof you may as well be a christian, in my book"

and................


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflinePed
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: kaiowas]
    #2160321 - 12/05/03 03:24 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)


>> enlightment is ego attached bullshit to me.

Unfortunately your view is not unfounded. It is natural for the ego to be attracted to a misrepresented mind of enlightenment. The ego is perpetually searching for nourishment. What an inexhaustible font of egoism enlightenment would be if adopted in a skewed and delusional manner!



--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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Offlinetrev
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Ped]
    #2160398 - 12/05/03 03:52 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I think mabe enlightenment is only a state of awareness we have when we, through love and understanding and conquest of desires see the truth in situations. when you put youre emotional filters and conditioning from past experiences aside.
And there is a lot more to it than that and in our society some times you need drugs to break from the norm and open youre mind to these sort of things.
P.S. I dont profess to have reached this state but am interested.


--------------------

Anonymous #14
[quote]There are billions of people on this planet. The world does not revolve around the united states, moron. I hope terrorists crash their collective cocks into your asshole. [/quote]


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Offlinejiva
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: trev]
    #2160427 - 12/05/03 04:05 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

thats what i relate satori with.

ego suppresion.
stoic transcendence.
no pre-conception (mindfulness).

Just "being" as "oneness".


--------------------
i am another you


Edited by jiva (12/05/03 04:07 AM)


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: jiva]
    #2160829 - 12/05/03 10:47 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

damn there's hella good replies here.  so many definitions, each unique, most connect to each other through focusing on the experience at hand.  i don't think words will ever describe it, nor do I think it can be explained. however, we are having fun getting there though and that's the real point. :smile:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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