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 recalcitrant
My Own God
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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 donnie darko... 'gain 
#2153610 - 12/02/03 11:21 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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so yeah, i want to talk about this.
I just saw this movie for the first time a couple of days ago on Movie Central, and really liked it.
It dealt with alot of the things I am dealing with right now.
Can I have your thoughts plz?
Specifically concerning the whole thing about freewill and living inside Gods plan.
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We have to answer our own prayers
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Positronius
playboy
Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
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I hated that movie. Blechhh. Sorry.
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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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jong21
Mycologist/CSMajor
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 576
Loc: Berkeley, CA
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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 Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: Positronius]
#2153653 - 12/02/03 11:36 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well I saw this movie the night before the first time I ever tripped on shrooms...and ended up thinking about it for about 1.5 hours or so of peaking...jotting crazy stuff down in my notebook etc....
Looking back at what I wrote and thought about, I really think that this movie has a lot of deep stuff about life and death and so on in it. And about god, religion as well. Everytime I watch it the stuff I thought about on shrooms kindof solidifies...I know it is a cheesy movie at times but I think if you look past it there's a lot there.
Well I have a lot of thoughts on the movie and don't want to delve into them all at once before I know why it is relevent to your life...what did YOU think of it?
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I either talk about my friends in the first or third person, but I never, ever talk about myself on this website. Except that last sentence.
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Hefex78
Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 251
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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*DELETED* [Re: jong21]
#2153668 - 12/02/03 11:41 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted. Reason for deletion: Confidential.
Edited by Wa7sum (10/03/07 08:13 AM)
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recalcitrant
My Own God
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: Hefex78]
#2153684 - 12/02/03 11:46 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I believe something similar (if not exactly that) to what he was discussing with the ER doctor.
God has this plan. if time travel is possible (as einstein/hawking insists) then we can have the ability to change the way things happend. Free will. we already have the ability to change gods divine plan, but if we live inside this plan all is well (?)
...
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We have to answer our own prayers
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 the_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist
Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
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Funny. Just got back from watching that for the first time at a friends house...
Me, I think the whole thing is a Christ reference and a rather brilliant one at that. Donnie = Christ. The hints are all through the film. Allow me to briefly explain, in reference to your questions re: free will and gGods plan...
Donnie sees bits of his future laid out for him, as indicated by Frank...
Donnie is lured from the house by Frank and thus escapes being killed by the mysterious falling jet engine...
By surviving, a chain of events is put into motion, which eventually leads to the death of Gretchen, his mother and sister, the original Frank and the destruction of any number of reputations and lives (Cunningham and his followers, his English teacher, etc.)...
When Cunningham is talking to the school, Donnie calls him on all his hypocrisy and calls him AntiChrist. Well, what does that make Donnie, then?
Donnie fights his destiny throughout the film but when it climaxes at the old womans cellar with all the deaths, he realizes what he must do and goes back through the time portal to remain in his room where the jet engine kills him. After shooting Frank, he tells the kid in the clown costume to run home and "tell your parents everythings going to be all right". At this point he has already committed to his own sacrifice.
An obvious hint is the movie theatre scene. At the theatre the Halloween double feature is "Evil Dead" and ... "Last Temptation of Christ." ??? In which Jesus lives out a normal life with wife and children in his visionary state, only to realize at the end that there was only one choice he could make, that of sacrifice, at which point he returns to the cross to proclaim "It is finished". Donnie and Gretchen don't stay for the second movie. Why? Cuz you're already watching it!
At the end, when Gretchen rides by Donnies house as they're carting away the jet engine and Donnies body, the little kid she's talking with asks her if she knew him. She says "no". But the audience is thinking "...but he died for you, to save you." Noone in the film really knew him, or knew what he knew, or knew why he did the things he did. Not his family or his friends or anyone. But he died to save them all from their fates.
Sounds like the traditional school-marm Jesus to me. Not like the Two-Fisted Fightin' Jesus I'm partial to, but a pretty good parallel all the same.
These are just my thoughts, but it came with one of those nice flashes you get when you recognize a subtly hidden archetype....
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jong21
Mycologist/CSMajor
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 576
Loc: Berkeley, CA
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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I think your analysis is perfect, I'm much impressed, just a few extra questions that I've thought about...
So then the question is why did God lure Donnie out of his room? Why not let fate happen and Donnie die? Because all the people in the movie would have been saved had God not interfered at all...(btw I think Frank in his bunny suit form was God, I think this fits well with your analogy, he has nothing to do with the human Frank directly).
My answer to this is this: Those 26 days were a gift from God, allowing Donnie to see and understand the purpose of his fate, why he had to die, and also allow Donnie to experience the true love he was destined to experience, before he sacrificed himself. Personally I think experiencing true love is one of those really worthwhile things that life has to offer, despite being very hurt by my experience I still can appreciate what I experienced. I think the chain of events after the jet engine crashed are the chain of events that would have occured had God not interfered...so Donnie was able to understand why his life must be taken. His sacrifice even saved his mother and sister, who undoubtedly wouldn't be going to LA to appear on the Tonight Show shortly after their son/brother's death. So god allowed him to understand his purpose in life and experience true love...I know this digresses from the "Donnie is Jesus" theme but I think my stuff can coexist with that interpretation....
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I either talk about my friends in the first or third person, but I never, ever talk about myself on this website. Except that last sentence.
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the_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist
Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
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Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: jong21]
#2153914 - 12/03/03 01:06 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, that's about it. Spot on, old man.
I didn't mean to say that Donnie actually WAS Jesus, but that he was fulfilling the archetype of the Christos.
And you're right about the 28 days being a gift. It's a gratuitous grace. Being given an opportunity to truly see your place in the scheme of things is a gift of love; and if he hadn't been given that, there would have been no meaning to his death at all. And did you notice how, at the moment of the jet engine crash, all the characters had that odd look on their faces as their timelines were re-aligned? Somehow they knew something significant had occurred...
I am of course reminded of Capra's "It's A Wonderful Life"....
Ah, tis the season, friends!
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Has anyone here ever heard of deconstructionism?
That was the basis for the structure of the movie.
I think it's an interesting theory, but I don't think it works in that particular media (film). But that's just my opinion... I have a friend who absolutely loves that movie (of course, she can't argue her way out of a paper bag).
What I liked:
The cinematography was great.
The different characters were great.
I really like the whole talent show bit where the little girl jazz number (which they performed completely emotionless) beat the girl who did her rendition of Swan Lake (which she did with much passion).
Patrick Swayze's character was great... the lovable, motivational speaker with a closet full of skeletons.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Positronius
playboy
Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
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Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: Sclorch]
#2153965 - 12/03/03 01:28 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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"The cinematography was great"
seriously>? i thought the cinematography and art direction were terrible.
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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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recalcitrant
My Own God
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: Positronius]
#2154005 - 12/03/03 01:50 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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it grabbed my attention at the beggining with him waking with that great view, but there were few other great images. other than the great view at the end. it was mostly philosophy
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We have to answer our own prayers
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Psilocybeingzz
Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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it was fucking great!
one of the best movies I have ever seen, and to this day when people ask me what a good movie is , I say donnie darko right away
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Misnomer
newbie
Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 33
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
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If god has a plan, and it's god, why does god need to run the experiment if god knows that god's plan is going to work the way god planned it? Or did god never run the experiment, god just thought it, and we are simply riding the thought?
"row row row your boat
gently down the stream"
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jong21
Mycologist/CSMajor
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 576
Loc: Berkeley, CA
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: Misnomer]
#2154105 - 12/03/03 03:07 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think it was a gift, not an experiment, that's the point.
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I either talk about my friends in the first or third person, but I never, ever talk about myself on this website. Except that last sentence.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: Positronius]
#2154491 - 12/03/03 09:26 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Positronius said:
"The cinematography was great"
seriously>? i thought the cinematography and art direction were terrible.
Okay, not great, but at least good or neutral (put it this way - I wasn't annoyed by anything).
I liked how the night scenes were shot. I really dug the clear blob thing that came out of Donnie's abdomen (but maybe that's more effects) - even though that was all about determinism.
I liked the whole schizophrenic thing when Donnie talks to the rabbit named Frank - it was good a creepy.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Ped
Interested In Your Brain
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: Sclorch]
#2154724 - 12/03/03 10:59 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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The Gary Jules tune at the end is heart-wrenching. Love it.
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Alan Stone
Corpus
Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: Ped]
#2155068 - 12/03/03 12:21 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd like to point out that in The Last Temptation of Christ it was Satan offering Jesus a real life, and looking at Frank's looks, I'd say he too is the devil.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
- Aristotle
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jong21
Mycologist/CSMajor
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 576
Loc: Berkeley, CA
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: Alan Stone]
#2155353 - 12/03/03 01:31 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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well why was frank pointing him towards a way to save everyone?
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I either talk about my friends in the first or third person, but I never, ever talk about myself on this website. Except that last sentence.
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Alan Stone
Corpus
Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: jong21]
#2155493 - 12/03/03 02:10 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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In The Last Temptation of Christ, an angel comes to Jesus when he's at the cross, saying something to the effect of, "You've proven yourself, you can come down now". So J.C. goes off to marry Mary Magdeline, has kids, and grows old. He also gets to experience real love, and the gift of childbirth, but at his deathbed, Judas Iskariot comes to visit him, and says "You've betrayed us all". Then Jesus snaps out of it, time is turned back and he decides to die at the cross.
How exactly DOES Frank save Donnie's mother and sister? Can't remember anything about the movie that points in this direction. Then again, it has been a while...
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
- Aristotle
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: donnie darko... 'gain [Re: Alan Stone]
#2155663 - 12/03/03 03:00 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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AS: How exactly DOES Frank save Donnie's mother and sister? Can't remember anything about the movie that points in this direction. Then again, it has been a while...
Didn't look up deconstructionism, eh?
This might help you understand the movie a little better...
Quote:
A philosophical movement and theory of literary criticism that questions traditional assumptions about certainty, identity, and truth; asserts that words can only refer to other words; and attempts to demonstrate how statements about any text subvert their own meanings: ?In deconstruction, the critic claims there is no meaning to be found in the actual text, but only in the various, often mutually irreconcilable, ?virtual texts? constructed by readers in their search for meaning? (Rebecca Goldstein).
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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