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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 5 months, 6 days
uninnoculated jars gone bad
    #21529668 - 04/10/15 06:09 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I had 15 quart jars left over from inoculating.  Basically I forgot about them under the shelf.  I did get 25 inoculated with lc and so far they are white and healthy looking.  I was short on lc so they only got a small dose.  This was about 3 weeks ago and they are just now finishing up colonizing, it may be a few days yet for some of the jars.

What's interesting is that I noticed last week that 3 of the 15 jars had green mold on top of the jar.  I sort of suspected my sfds had failed, which didn't make a whole lot of sense they were relatively new.  Then I inoculated the 12 (with a healthy dose of lc - 10ccs per quart) and 3-4 days (about 2 weeks after pcing them) later 7 went bad with green mold.  Some were heavily contamed, some lightly.  The other jars look fine, either no growth or spots of healthy white myc.

I've ruled out the lc, because not all the jars failed, and some failed jars had only small spots, with the amount of lc I used it should have been distributed all over.

I did add some ingredients from the hippie cake formula like: nutritional yeast, corn meal, flax, and some other stuff.

I sort of suspect that the increased nutrients somehow woke up the dormant green spores?

I PCed for either 90 or 120 minutes, I think it was 120. 

I used wbs with coffee soak.

My other suspicion is that maybe I got a really dirty batch of wbs?  Hard to say.

Maybe I should pc another similar batch and let them sit around for 2 weeks, shake them, and see if they turn green.

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InvisibleBuck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
Re: uninnoculated jars gone bad [Re: invitro]
    #21529754 - 04/10/15 06:28 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I've found some bizarre things in my batches of wbs and never had a contam problem. If your grain is prepared properly you don't need to worry about "dirty grain".

Properly prepaired grain jars can last for weeks once sterilized. Although the longest I've let my jars sit around uninoculated was about 10 days, I didn't have any problems.
Even with the best grain prep, sometimes jars just go bad:shrug:


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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
Trusted Cultivator
Re: uninnoculated jars gone bad [Re: Buck513]
    #21529823 - 04/10/15 06:42 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Mold spores get destroyed in the pressure cooking cycle relatively quickly, within 40 minutes or sooner. Bacterial endospores are actually the reason for the 90+ pressure cook times we often employ.

I would rule out any of your additives or dirtier than normal grain source as your root problems. It's either your LC, SFDs, or sterile procedures during inoculation.

I suggest the cellulose filters discs that Alohaculturebank.com carries. They can last 100's of cycles without any of the pores widening. I get the one piece metal lids from them as well, with a 3/4 inch hole drilled by them in the center. The CFDs require larger GE holes due to the thickness. This can't be said for SFDs. I don't trust many of the SFDs on the market, as the pores widen with repeated use. The only drawback to CFDs is they can't get wet. Big deal, some aluminum foil takes care of that.

Did you inoculate in a SAB(still air box)?

I'm a little unclear what happened exactly, but if you had any jars going moldy that weren't inoculated but properly sterilized, then it's definitely your SFDs.

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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 5 months, 6 days
Re: uninnoculated jars gone bad [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #21529939 - 04/10/15 07:18 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Yea I had 3 uninoculated jars sterilized at 15 psi. the contams on all 3 were covering the top of the jar only, I think I ran those sfds 3 or 4 times, I got them from madseason.com (a shroomery vendor). 

I've been wondering about alohas sfds...

I kept the jars in a latched tote the whole time, with the foil still on them.  Kind of blows my mind but the sfd is the only thing it could be.  I had to move the tote a few times and the lid bends when you do that, it wasn't hermetically sealed or anything, and some of the tin foil lids or all of them get jostled quite a bit when I take them from pc to tote....

the 25 jars (pced them like 1-2 days before inoculations) that I inoculated with the exact same LC jar have zero signs of contams, and they all got inoculated at the same time with about 10ccs of fluid....

Edited by invitro (04/10/15 07:37 PM)

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InvisibleBuck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
Re: uninnoculated jars gone bad [Re: invitro]
    #21529975 - 04/10/15 07:30 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

10ccs seems a bit much to me.
But I've never used LC so I guess i wouldn't know:shrug:


--------------------
Fail to plan and you plan to fail.

Enter the Ban Lottery

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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 5 months, 6 days
Re: uninnoculated jars gone bad [Re: Buck513]
    #21530028 - 04/10/15 07:43 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

The ccs needed depends on what's in the jar.  50% coir in my case, 10ccs is a bit on the light side, Muda uses 15-20ccs.

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InvisibleBuck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
Re: uninnoculated jars gone bad [Re: invitro]
    #21530076 - 04/10/15 07:51 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Im an agar whore :shrug:


--------------------
Fail to plan and you plan to fail.

Enter the Ban Lottery

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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
Trusted Cultivator
Re: uninnoculated jars gone bad [Re: Buck513]
    #21530484 - 04/10/15 09:07 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, sounds like your SFD's were to blame.

You shouldn't leave foil on your lids. It hinders GE, and if your filters stay wet because of the foil then contaminants can germinate and colonize right through the SFD. Not to say this is what happened, but it's of concern.

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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 5 months, 6 days
Re: uninnoculated jars gone bad [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #21530575 - 04/10/15 09:23 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I take the foil off once inoculated...  maybe I should take it off before though just in case it's helping to germinate some kind of contam.  They always seem dry when I take the foil off though, maybe it's hard to tell if the sfd has moisture in it though.

Edited by invitro (04/10/15 09:25 PM)

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