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feminism and the patriarchy
    #21529482 -

Real talk guys... the general consensus among top sociologists seem to be that we live in a patriarchy where women are at a much greater disadvantage and men hold all the power.

How come? It really doesn't seem this way from where I am standing. But if all the scholars feel this is the case, then I must be the one who is ignorant.

I am taking a feminist study class this semester so I have been thinking about this topic a lot. How do you guys feel about the idea that we live in a patriarchy where women are being oppressed while men are laughing it up with all the power?


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It has been reported that some victims of torture, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not wake up. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren’t being tortured. The only way that they realized they needed to wake up was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to wake up. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and please wake up.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: evenbreak] * 4
    #21529488 -

Like this.

:facepalm:



Really hard.

This is going to be an excellent 20+ page argument.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Rustifer] * 1
    #21529507 -

Rustifer said:
This is going to be an excellent 20+ page argument.


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #21529512 -

Rustifer said:
Like this.

:facepalm:



Really hard.

This is going to be an excellent 20+ page argument.


I understand this could be an emotional topic.. but I hope people don't just start arguing.

We are living in a patriarchy. Even though I don't currently see it, that must be a fact since that is the general consensus of top scholars. I'm just hoping someone could explain why this is the case.


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It has been reported that some victims of torture, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not wake up. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren’t being tortured. The only way that they realized they needed to wake up was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to wake up. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and please wake up.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #21529518 -

Sigh. It's just silly to think equality of any sort exists including gender. Reality is that I'm considered greater than some guys and girls by a certain view point and I'm also a lot less than those same guys and girls from another view point. Lots of girls could be considered superior than me as well as guys so every time I hear about equality I just face palm


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Adolin] * 3
    #21529526 -

Lets get this started.

Almost all of its concepts are subjective, non-falsifiable and/or non-repeatable.

Its very existence contradicts its own theory of female oppression.

All underlying theories and terminology of feminism is evidence of an adversarial mindset between the genders. Terms like patriarchy they claim simply describes a system that is unfair to both sexes. Yet they insist on calling it patriarchy which at least implicitly lays the blame at men's feet. Their entire worldview thrives on us vs them, on a gender war and on showing who is better and who is evil.

Almost every feminist you'll ever encounter is either unable or unwilling to live up to their own standards they demand from others. Be it sexism, accountability or anything else.

Feminism perpetuates female inferiority and thus hinders women's empowerment. Being an autonomous adult, requires taking responsibility for one's actions. But feminists do everything to protect women from the consequences of their choices.

Like religion, feminism enjoys an immunity from criticism from academic circles. People are afraid to scrutinize it and feminists won't scrutinize it. As a result, it has no hope to ever be anything but a cult.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: evenbreak]
    #21529545 -

There is no such thing as a top sociologist.  They are all bottom feeding morons who couldn't cut it in a real science.


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: evenbreak] * 5
    #21529641 -

Probably a troll thread but you show me one instance where a female in 2015 USA is somehow prohibited from doing something a man does and ill bite.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Nova]
    #21529682 -

amen nova..preach it brother


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: evenbreak]
    #21529711 -

evenbreak said:
Rustifer said:
Like this.

:facepalm:



Really hard.

This is going to be an excellent 20+ page argument.


I understand this could be an emotional topic.. but I hope people don't just start arguing.

We are living in a patriarchy. Even though I don't currently see it, that must be a fact since that is the general consensus of top scholars. I'm just hoping someone could explain why this is the case.


"general consensus of top scholars"

:huxleyfacepalm:

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: qman]
    #21532258 -



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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: drege] * 3
    #21532298 -


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: DidYouSetItToWumbo] * 2
    #21532595 -

Im wondering when feminists will start pushing for mandatory enlisting in the draft for women.


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Utwiddle.net

In order to act like a king, one need only treat everyone else like one.

BUMP THIS THREAD EVERYTIME YOU SEE IT

Join the Anarchy Camp!  Down with Oppression!!

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #21532729 -

Rustifer said:
Like this.

:facepalm:



Really hard.

This is going to be an excellent 20+ page argument.


Muh patriarchy


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: TheMovement]
    #21532730 -

On a more real note:

There is sexism in the world, it is just a fact of life.  This street goes both ways though.  Sure, in some households, women may be expected to do the dishes and take care of the children.  Then men are expected to take out the trash, clean the gutters, fix the holes in the roof, mow the lawn.  <-- Sex roles

Men are still expected to be the bread-winners for a family.  They are still expected to be the head of households, but we all know that women hold that real power.  Women wanted to join the workforce and so they did: Now they get to work shitty 40 hr/week jobs just like the rest of us : Nursing, secretarial work, bureaucratic work etc.,

Men get stuck with the shit jobs.  How many women do you see on a construction site?  How many women do you see digging graves, collecting trash, working oil rigs, on fishing boats, landscaping.

The answer is few to none.  You want your cake, but you want to eat it too.  IF you truly desire equality, then get down and dirty with the men.  Prove to the world that you really can do what we can do.  I know you can, you have just been conditioned not to.

What is the effect of this on the family though?  Women and Men both want to work their lives away now, and children end up being raised in front of television screens, or by nannies who barely speak English, and then start the indoctrination in school.  The result of a two income household is leading to the decline of family values.

Now I am not saying there isn't a problem with unconscious sexism, that is still rampant in our society.  BUt is holding a door open for a woman really sexist?  I hold the door open for everyone you feminazi bitch. 

We are moving towards a society of conscious sexism to unconscious sexism.  Women seem to have more political rights in the US than men.  Women get priority over child care when couples split apart.  Women do not have to sign up for the draft.  Women are seen as incapable of rape, and only very rarely does a woman get prosecuted for domestic abuse.  So yes there is sexism, but this type of sexism is favored towards women.

As long as we live within the gender system, there will always be unconscious biases we make towards either group.  So maybe we should attempt to move towards a society in which gender is no longer a thing.  But that would be simply absurd, because Gender must be taken into account I.R.T policies such as maternal leave.  I also think there should be a Paternal leave as well.  Taking care of the children is one of the most important things a society can do.

The people are the oppressors in cases such as this, public opinion can greatly affect how one looks at oneself.  RIght now it is more acceptable for women to dress in what was deemed as men's clothing, than it is for a man to wear a dress.  I would love to wear a dress, they are so fun and flowy and beautiful, but I would be shunned by society if I did that.

There are many aspects to look for when asking the question of whether or not a society is sexist.  Here are the three ways I propose we go about looking at the topic:

1. How are things, I.R.T. gender, in society right now.
2. How ought things to be I.R.T. gender? (ideals)  How would the ideal society look?
3. Instrumentalities/means: How do we get from where we are, to the ideal? 

These are the questions we should be looking at.

If you are interested in whether you, yourself are unconsciously racist or sexist, I would recommend taking the Implicit association test. 

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/selectatest.html


--------------------
Utwiddle.net

In order to act like a king, one need only treat everyone else like one.

BUMP THIS THREAD EVERYTIME YOU SEE IT

Join the Anarchy Camp!  Down with Oppression!!

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: evenbreak]
    #21532829 -

evenbreak said:
Rustifer said:
Like this.

:facepalm:



Really hard.

This is going to be an excellent 20+ page argument.


I understand this could be an emotional topic.. but I hope people don't just start arguing.

We are living in a patriarchy. Even though I don't currently see it, that must be a fact since that is the general consensus of top scholars. I'm just hoping someone could explain why this is the case.


Why don't you explain it to us?


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: evenbreak]
    #21532952 -

your 'top scholars' think that statistics, which are often handpicked to favor their point of view, and drawing from the populations of their choice are an actual representation of the real world.

culturally, western countries are pretty forward thinking when it comes to equal rights. This is still not a 50/50 split, and may never be, but its hard to say we are living in a forced patriarch society. Women can choose what they want to do here, any time they want to. Nothing will ever change the fact that there are sociopaths (male and female) who try and make others their doormats; that is an unfortunate fact of life.


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notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: setb]
    #21532979 -

setb said:
Rustifer said:
Like this.

:facepalm:



Really hard.

This is going to be an excellent 20+ page argument.


Muh patriarchy





God, I watched the video where miss thing up there was featured in and was appalled.


Third wave feminism does not sit well with me. I consider myself a secular humanist/egalitarian, I think that there are certain parts of the world where women are treated horrendously and it's in those places where things are so disportionate between genders that feminism is really accomplishing big things. Research has shown that when un-industrialized nations that provide women with access to education have greater success because those values and teachings are highly likely to be retained within the community and past down to future generations and those are places that make me recognize the importance of the feminisms core value.


Unfortunately I feel that third-wave feminism has essentially gone full circle and that they are actually furthering the victim mentality among young women and that the culture of hyper-sensitivity(TRIGGER WARNING) and excessive political correctness that crosses over into ostracizing minority demographics does way more harm than good.

I think it's important that there was is a specific group geared towards issues that women are unique in facing - but I think men should have the same kind of open and forthcoming discussion because they too have unique issues and suffer from discrimination that is unique to being male.


I wouldn't touch a women's studies class with a ten foot pole, personally. I think most women who identify as feminist are not radical and merely believe in independence and equality, but in academic circles feminism gets really really fucking crazy.


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Mama, here comes Midnight, with a dead Moon in it's jaws.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: pirate-blues]
    #21532998 -

I'm so triggered, I might go cry about it on tumblr and send out some angry tweets.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: evenbreak]
    #21533021 -

evenbreak said:
Real talk guys... the general consensus among top sociologists seem to be that we live in a patriarchy where women are at a much greater disadvantage and men hold all the power.



I have more faith in what scientologists have to say


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: pirate-blues]
    #21533030 -

pirate-blues said:
setb said:
Rustifer said:
Like this.

:facepalm:



Really hard.

This is going to be an excellent 20+ page argument.


Muh patriarchy





God, I watched the video where miss thing up there was featured in and was appalled.


Third wave feminism does not sit well with me. I consider myself a secular humanist/egalitarian, I think that there are certain parts of the world where women are treated horrendously and it's in those places where things are so disportionate between genders that feminism is really accomplishing big things. Research has shown that when un-industrialized nations that provide women with access to education have greater success because those values and teachings are highly likely to be retained within the community and past down to future generations and those are places that make me recognize the importance of the feminisms core value.


Unfortunately I feel that third-wave feminism has essentially gone full circle and that they are actually furthering the victim mentality among young women and that the culture of hyper-sensitivity(TRIGGER WARNING) and excessive political correctness that crosses over into ostracizing minority demographics does way more harm than good.

I think it's important that there was is a specific group geared towards issues that women are unique in facing - but I think men should have the same kind of open and forthcoming discussion because they too have unique issues and suffer from discrimination that is unique to being male.


I wouldn't touch a women's studies class with a ten foot pole, personally. I think most women who identify as feminist are not radical and merely believe in independence and equality, but in academic circles feminism gets really really fucking crazy.


:highfive:


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Shroomism]
    #21533209 -

I'm glad this started going some where while I was asleep.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21533228 -

Prisoner#1 said:
evenbreak said:
Real talk guys... the general consensus among top sociologists seem to be that we live in a patriarchy where women are at a much greater disadvantage and men hold all the power.



I have more faith in what scientologists have to say


I wonder what tom cruise would have to say about this topic now that you say that.


I'll listen to the bitching about a patriarchy when A. divorce laws/settlments are more fair for men, and B. When women can be enlisted for the draft. With be by not enlisting females is pretty much saying "we have the same attitude as WW2 their only purpose it to cook and breed" That seems pretty sexist to me since we're suppose to be equal....


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FREE BURKE

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Shroomism]
    #21533237 -

Shroomism said:
pirate-blues said:
setb said:
Rustifer said:
Like this.

:facepalm:



Really hard.

This is going to be an excellent 20+ page argument.


Muh patriarchy





God, I watched the video where miss thing up there was featured in and was appalled.


Third wave feminism does not sit well with me. I consider myself a secular humanist/egalitarian, I think that there are certain parts of the world where women are treated horrendously and it's in those places where things are so disportionate between genders that feminism is really accomplishing big things. Research has shown that when un-industrialized nations that provide women with access to education have greater success because those values and teachings are highly likely to be retained within the community and past down to future generations and those are places that make me recognize the importance of the feminisms core value.


Unfortunately I feel that third-wave feminism has essentially gone full circle and that they are actually furthering the victim mentality among young women and that the culture of hyper-sensitivity(TRIGGER WARNING) and excessive political correctness that crosses over into ostracizing minority demographics does way more harm than good.

I think it's important that there was is a specific group geared towards issues that women are unique in facing - but I think men should have the same kind of open and forthcoming discussion because they too have unique issues and suffer from discrimination that is unique to being male.


I wouldn't touch a women's studies class with a ten foot pole, personally. I think most women who identify as feminist are not radical and merely believe in independence and equality, but in academic circles feminism gets really really fucking crazy.


:highfive:



I like her.


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FREE BURKE

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Mescalean]
    #21533700 -

Well.. it looks like everyone is saying feminism is a load of horse shit, basically? And that the only reason it's well regarded in academia is because people are too scared to criticize it?

Well, going into my class with that mentality is going to make lectures much more unenjoyable.. but I guess I still have to keep an open mind.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: evenbreak]
    #21533782 -

It is well regarded in academia because the academy is infested with pin headed liberal trolls who can't justify their paychecks and existence without coming up with a bunch of outrageous bullshit.  Thees morons were not given positions at university when I went. 

By the way, if you put ten women who identify themselves as feminists in a room and leave them alone long enough they will claw each other's eyes out over what constitutes feminism.


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21533787 -

If you ever open your mouth they will accuse you of rape.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #21533797 -

And they would be right


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21533808 -

Don't you two fucking forget it either... ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS ):


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FREE BURKE

Edited by Mescalean (04/11/15 03:27 PM)

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Mescalean]
    #21533869 -

Fucking A right.  Did you know that checking out tits is rape.  True story.


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21533899 -

http://thewilderness.me/the-accused/

Quote:
In the end, the only predator on the campus of UVA at that time was Sabrina Erdely.



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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21533978 -

If I could create more people with out wemen I would spearhead a femicide - I'd be the hitler of the sexes!
I don't have any use for them.


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x [Re: pirate-blues]
    #21533984 -

x


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All my posts are completely fictional and are for entertainment purposes only, images I use, post or reference on this account are sourced from the internet and are not my own.

Edited by Infinitys Minute (10/09/16 10:31 PM)

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Infinitys Minute]
    #21534082 -

there really aren't many civilizations that aren't a patriarchy to some extent (where men are considered more powerful then a woman who is otherwise equal, now of course a woman who has more money is going to be more powerful than a man who has nothing).

i'd argue it starts from our biology because men are genetically leaner/stronger than women who are equal in every way other than sex. (ie equally fit, equal diet, equal genetics, etc.)

and society sort of reflects biology of a species. i'd be interested in learning about any society that is the opposite of a patriarchy. i just think any primitive society will be male dominant, but as society becomes more advanced that is not so much the case although simple minded people will likely exist within advanced society forever and so the perception of patriarchy may exist even if the society has mostly move past that as a whole.


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ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary)

PodCast

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: SurReality]
    #21534310 -

Its a horseshit concept because for starters

1. women have equal rights under law
2. women get the house, kids, car, etc in a divorce. Guy gets to pay for it all
3. women have quotas at many places. Not "enough" women on the payroll and obumble will be on your ass.
4. the media promotes womens right constantly and puts them in the center of the photo when there is one.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21534871 -

Yea I agree it's definitely moving far away from patriarchy in some countries. Especially in terms of government, but socially I think men have more power or respect.


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ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary)

PodCast

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: SurReality]
    #21536870 -

>socially I think men have more power or respect.

Respect has to be earned, it can't be legislated by politicians. Power flows from accomplishments and respect earned.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21537012 -

Not necessarily. Maybe for some people that is true, I wish I could say most people.


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ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary)

PodCast

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21537015 -

Stonehenge said:
>socially I think men have more power or respect.

Respect has to be earned, it can't be legislated by politicians. Power flows from accomplishments and respect earned.



100 percent agree with this.


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FREE BURKE

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Mescalean]
    #21537048 -

There are plenty of people who give others respect for no reason earned. Perhaps that is true about respect for yourself but do you really think the same is true about the respect a kkk member might have for someone?


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ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary)

PodCast

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: SurReality]
    #21537101 -

I firmly believe the world would be better off if more high power positions (generals, senators, presidents) were female. Not saying more should be female then male, but a more equal representation of women in powerful positions will make things better IMO.


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Moonshoe]
    #21537110 -

So should we pass more laws giving them an extra boost on top of the laws already on the books? Or should we accept the fact that the sexes are different and have different goals?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21537147 -

Hard to say. But more succesful and high funcitoning countries like switzerland, norway, denmark, finland, iceland etc (the most prosperous happy healthy well educated lowest crime highest literacy best health longest life highest quality of life nations) have more women represented in positions of power. I dont know what came first, the chicken or the egg, but the connection is there.


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #21537159 -

I agree about positions of power for women but for the every day woman, she could work hard on power and respect rather than demanding it like it's her right


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Mad Season]
    #21537237 -

Mad Season said:
I agree about positions of power for women but for the every day woman, she could work hard on power and respect rather than demanding it like it's her right


Exactly


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Moonshoe] * 6
    #21538557 -

Moonshoe said:
I firmly believe the world would be better off if more high power positions (generals, senators, presidents) were female. Not saying more should be female then male, but a more equal representation of women in powerful positions will make things better IMO.


Women make up %53 of the voting population yet when there's more men in political office it's sexism?
Nothing is stopping them from going after positions of power and no one is stopping them from voting them in.

The female voting majority that enjoys paying 36% of taxes but consuming 70% of welfare benefits. Oppression?
The female voting majority that has double the money spent on their health concerns…not enough?
The female voting majority that ensure women gain control of their kids in divorce. Oppression?
The female voting majority that ensures women don’t have to sign up for selective services to vote, though men do.
The female voting majority that in the UK means they can retire five years earlier than men.


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Re: feminism and the patriarchy [Re: Shroomism]
    #21538635 -

I don't personally know of any area where women are oppressed as far as legislation goes.

  I don't think we need quotas of female politicians or any profession. The legal changes have been made, the social sphere just has catching up to do in some areas perhaps, but I don't think forcing the matter is necessarily a good idea. I have a similar opinion in terms of formerly oppressed minorities in general.


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Ezuma Art:

http://ezumaart.weebly.com/

Edited by Ezuma (04/12/15 06:10 PM)

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by KevinDontWave
* Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes)
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )		 Bitter Cactus 8,182 178 09/15/15 08:18 AM
by shroominated
* I'll never date a feminist guy causes hilarious feminist shitstorm
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 ShroomismM 3,393 144 09/10/16 04:35 PM
by ServantOfBaphomet
* Retard Feminists asks "36 questions for men"
( 1 2 3 all )		 ShroomismM 2,470 48 02/02/16 10:22 PM
by Rocket
* Feminism, why??????
( 1 2 3 4 ... 10 11 all )		 MikeBearPig 7,065 215 06/27/15 05:02 PM
by MikeBearPig
* There is no oppressive Patriarchy, There is no war on women and third wave Feminism is bullshit
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 Apostle 6,898 143 01/14/16 03:11 AM
by nice1returns
* Fuck the patriarchy.
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )		 Alyssa 3,347 171 11/04/25 10:15 PM
by lowbrow
* Feminists....
( 1 2 3 all )		 Hypercube 7,390 52 02/21/07 09:48 PM
by Sacred_Fool

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