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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
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Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Living in time vs eterrnity * 1
    #21525825 - 04/09/15 07:43 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I have tried both and it seems to me there is no comparison. We are eternal beings (intended to be at least) and only through operating from an eternal frame of reference can we fullfill our potential and find some sense of inner peace.

To elaborate what I mean by this, I find that when I am living fully in time, that is, continuously absorbed in discursive thought centering around an idea of "me" what tends to happen is I am constantly occupied with the past or future and the result of this is ALWAYS addiction. It doesn't have to be addiction to drugs (though it often is) but there is addiction to whatever feels good and aversion to whatever doesn't. So it could simply be addiction to sleeping, or being lazy, or sex or food, etc. But it is a really bad bargain.

For instance, I have to go to work and suffer 8 hours in order to enjoy the 10 minutes of euphoria you feel when you get off work. You always end up getting stuck in time in such a way that the times you feel good are very short and the times you feel bad or dissatisfied take up most of your day. This is how most people live and this is why the world is the way it is.

But I have disocvered that the more I turn my attention inward onto my own beingness, then the less it matters whether I am enjoying some exquisite pleasure or just doing something normal like driving to the store. Each moment can be an interesting, engaging, even beautiful experience if we are willing to meet it as such rather than trying to impose our will upon it in order to gain some sort of pleasure.

Then your experience of time begins to change. It starts telescoping almost, so it no longer matters what time it is because your happiness is no longer bound by time.  You dont need things to look forward to when you can be with the present. I feel that that is what is at the crux of addiction. We feel unsatisfied in the present, so we need to imagine something we can look forward to, in order to tell ourselves the future will be better, otherwise the present is too unbearable. And this is why people are so addicted to the world, its just a way of avoiding the present moment. But the benefits of addiction exist in imagination only. Without the thought "I will feel so much better when I X" we would quickly lose interest in our addictions.

And this is also why addiction is so difficult to treat. Its because addiction is not caused by a bad childhood, or a chemical imbalance, it is a result of the spiritual condition of the soul. Our souls can heal but this is not alwyas an easy or straightforward process and it is not a process which modern science or psychology understands very well.

This is why addiction treatment services are often such abysmal failures. They can't fix the soul and that division in the soul, is the real problem. Addiction treatment is often based on the idea that if we tell the person why they shouldn't do what they've been doing, they will see the light. But lack of understanding was never the problem. The alcoholic knows he shouldn't drink so much alcohol. THe problem is he is stuck spiritually in the hungry ghost state, and your state of being has much more power over your behavior than your rationalizations.

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OfflineMajickMuffin
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Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: Deviate]
    #21525896 - 04/09/15 07:55 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Well said. :woah: :thumbup: :eek:

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OfflineCoraltrout
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Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: MajickMuffin]
    #21526504 - 04/09/15 10:13 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

some very wise words there,


--------------------
'For it's the end of history, it's caged and frozen still, there is no other pill to take, so swallow the one that makes you ill'

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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: Deviate]
    #21527889 - 04/10/15 09:11 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

:awethumb: I couldn't agree more Deviate. When we live fully in the present, we are completely free from attachment and desire. Like you say, our denial of the now is what pulls us out of natural, peaceful state and into the future. It is the strength of our will (our ability to maintain awareness) that determines whether or not we are able observe and detach from thoughts that might pull us back into "time"again.

The greater our previous resistance to the now, (i.e the more identified we have become to our thoughts) the more will is required to remain present. That's why it is so hard for addicts to break habitual patterns. However, if we can catch the thoughts as they first arise, before they firmly take root, it's much easier to ride the waves.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

Edited by PocketLady (04/10/15 09:19 AM)

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: Deviate]
    #21528106 - 04/10/15 10:26 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Good stuff Deviate, nice to hear where you're at :smile:

Quote:

Each moment can be an interesting, engaging, even beautiful experience if we are willing to meet it as such rather than trying to impose our will upon it in order to gain some sort of pleasure




It's so true, when you stop trying to move from here you find here is the most beautiful place to be, and really the only place you ever are, anything else, past, future, thoughts themselves, it's all just day dreams, where can you really go? you are here and always have been


--------------------

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: Chronic7]
    #21529730 - 04/10/15 06:23 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

That's it man. Seems like we are all just trying to make this life as "good feeling" as possible, and some people are going about it in a backwards way - they are trying to get happiness from things or always projecting it into the future - or with drugs that have horrendous come downs/addiction. Reminds me of a thing I heard about vacations. It was a study that found the main happiness from a vacation comes from the months of anticipation leading up to it.

Some days when I am sitting in my office chair at work and feeling a bit down, I try to do some mental trick or whatever to be happy. "Focus on your breath" I might think. But it is not easy being happy when you are doing some repetitive function that doesn't seem to be doing anything for the world at large other than earning you a pay check. Sometimes I don't feel like meditating and just feel like crap. Sometimes I think the shit is necessary to contrast the good in life. Maybe one of the byproducts of living in time, away from infinity-eternity, is you have to embrace this oscillating wave of good and evil. Maybe the trick is to level it out somehow where neither the good times or the bad times effect you as much - but I don't think you can take one without the other (i.e, live in bliss for ever). If one was on MDMA 24/7 it would just become the new baseline.

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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #21529956 - 04/10/15 07:25 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Very true and very good, Dev. . much power and love to you.  You can get anywhere you want to be, spiritually, if you simply have the aspiration; and once you make the vows to be kind, to be helpful, to be compassionate, and things like that, then there are some responses that seem to happen, that really get you there quickly.  Indeed these things are the ones that can heal the world from war - and we are benefited by them; whenever a person observes, performs, or receives an act of kindness - all three - there is a boost to the immune system. . this is sort of evidence to me, anyway, that we are biologically evolved to be compassionate beings.  Kindness really does restore health and happiness and strength in life, and that keeps on and keeps on.  Finding friends who also share your desire for peace and these ideals helps immensely.  See you again.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide

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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #21533224 - 04/11/15 01:41 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
That's it man. Seems like we are all just trying to make this life as "good feeling" as possible, and some people are going about it in a backwards way - they are trying to get happiness from things or always projecting it into the future - or with drugs that have horrendous come downs/addiction. Reminds me of a thing I heard about vacations. It was a study that found the main happiness from a vacation comes from the months of anticipation leading up to it.

Some days when I am sitting in my office chair at work and feeling a bit down, I try to do some mental trick or whatever to be happy. "Focus on your breath" I might think. But it is not easy being happy when you are doing some repetitive function that doesn't seem to be doing anything for the world at large other than earning you a pay check. Sometimes I don't feel like meditating and just feel like crap. Sometimes I think the shit is necessary to contrast the good in life. Maybe one of the byproducts of living in time, away from infinity-eternity, is you have to embrace this oscillating wave of good and evil. Maybe the trick is to level it out somehow where neither the good times or the bad times effect you as much - but I don't think you can take one without the other (i.e, live in bliss for ever). If one was on MDMA 24/7 it would just become the new baseline.




That is because human happiness is only dependent on sadness. You can't have one without the other. But the love and peace of God, is wholeness. It is not dependent on anything outside itself, because it is all there is and being all there is, it quite naturally lasts forever, although there is no forever from that point of view, theres only what is (time being contained within it).

With drugs, we sort of steal our future happiness from ourselves in order to experience a big blast of happiness all at once. This gives us the illusion of something to look forward to, which gives us something to work on or do. The ego thrives on having something to do, it hates to let things be as they are but always has to poke or prod or fiddle with them in some way. Just look at your inner self right now, is it still or is it always moving, poking its nose in all kinds of crevices always trying to find something or improve its experience somehow? So addictive drugs are a bit like riding around in circles, you never actually get anywhere with them you just expend energy to stay in the same place.

Our world is full of childish people with childish ideas and behaviors. I myself realized how society basically taught me to live as a child and to react to events as a childish, with that level of emotional maturity. It takes tremendous effort, at times, to go against this force of the mass consciousness but eventually you begin to ask yourself, do you want to play with your bike your whole life like a child or do you want to actually grow up one day? THen you find that growing up is very difficult but it is much more rewarding than remaining a child, which is literally what most people do.

Edited by Deviate (04/11/15 01:49 PM)

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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #21533429 - 04/11/15 02:15 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:

Some days when I am sitting in my office chair at work and feeling a bit down, I try to do some mental trick or whatever to be happy. "Focus on your breath" I might think. But it is not easy being happy when you are doing some repetitive function that doesn't seem to be doing anything for the world at large other than earning you a pay check. Sometimes I don't feel like meditating and just feel like crap. Sometimes I think the shit is necessary to contrast the good in life. Maybe one of the byproducts of living in time, away from infinity-eternity, is you have to embrace this oscillating wave of good and evil. Maybe the trick is to level it out somehow where neither the good times or the bad times effect you as much - but I don't think you can take one without the other (i.e, live in bliss for ever). If one was on MDMA 24/7 it would just become the new baseline.




In the Kybalion, this oscillation is called the Principle of Rhythm. Like you say, it explains that this duality, the swinging of the pendulum is always in effect in the universe. A negative swing leads to an equally strong positive swing in the opposite direction. The person who experiences very high highs experiences equally very low lows. A person who neither experiences strong moments of happiness and joy neither experiences particularly intense sadness. MDMA is a great example, think of the awesome high, and then the shitty comedown afterwards.

This principle is always in effect, and it is impossible to stop the swing of the pendulum. However, there is a way to negate it's effects.

"The Hermetic Masters long since discovered that while the Principle of Rhythm was invariable, and ever in evidence in mental phenomena, still there were two planes of its manifestation so far as mental phenomena are concerned. They discovered that there were two general planes of Consciousness, the Lower and the Higher, the understanding of which fact enabled them to rise to the higher plane and thus escape the swing of the Rhythmic pendulum which manifested on the lower plane. In other words, the swing of the pendulum occurred on the Unconscious Plane, and the Consciousness was not affected. This they call the Law of Neutralization."

Basically, if one is able to "rise above" the feelings and vibrations they are experiencing by being in a conscious state, then they can escape the negative swing. Being conscious basically means observing without involvement, watching your thoughts, meditating. If you can do that, then it is possible to remain completely unaffected by negativity. Once you have neutralized the incoming negativity, you are then free to create :smile:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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InvisibleAyah
Perpetual Insomniac
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Registered: 03/29/15
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Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: PocketLady]
    #21533847 - 04/11/15 03:38 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Also, you can just remind yourself that you're eternal and time has no real meaning beyond the earthly function...

You're always in the Present when Time has no meaning.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: Deviate]
    #21534054 - 04/11/15 04:37 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Nicely stated! :yesnod:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: PocketLady]
    #21535889 - 04/12/15 04:44 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:

Some days when I am sitting in my office chair at work and feeling a bit down, I try to do some mental trick or whatever to be happy. "Focus on your breath" I might think. But it is not easy being happy when you are doing some repetitive function that doesn't seem to be doing anything for the world at large other than earning you a pay check. Sometimes I don't feel like meditating and just feel like crap. Sometimes I think the shit is necessary to contrast the good in life. Maybe one of the byproducts of living in time, away from infinity-eternity, is you have to embrace this oscillating wave of good and evil. Maybe the trick is to level it out somehow where neither the good times or the bad times effect you as much - but I don't think you can take one without the other (i.e, live in bliss for ever). If one was on MDMA 24/7 it would just become the new baseline.




In the Kybalion, this oscillation is called the Principle of Rhythm. Like you say, it explains that this duality, the swinging of the pendulum is always in effect in the universe. A negative swing leads to an equally strong positive swing in the opposite direction. The person who experiences very high highs experiences equally very low lows. A person who neither experiences strong moments of happiness and joy neither experiences particularly intense sadness. MDMA is a great example, think of the awesome high, and then the shitty comedown afterwards.

This principle is always in effect, and it is impossible to stop the swing of the pendulum. However, there is a way to negate it's effects.

"The Hermetic Masters long since discovered that while the Principle of Rhythm was invariable, and ever in evidence in mental phenomena, still there were two planes of its manifestation so far as mental phenomena are concerned. They discovered that there were two general planes of Consciousness, the Lower and the Higher, the understanding of which fact enabled them to rise to the higher plane and thus escape the swing of the Rhythmic pendulum which manifested on the lower plane. In other words, the swing of the pendulum occurred on the Unconscious Plane, and the Consciousness was not affected. This they call the Law of Neutralization."

Basically, if one is able to "rise above" the feelings and vibrations they are experiencing by being in a conscious state, then they can escape the negative swing. Being conscious basically means observing without involvement, watching your thoughts, meditating. If you can do that, then it is possible to remain completely unaffected by negativity. Once you have neutralized the incoming negativity, you are then free to create :smile:




I've never heard it described like that :thumbup:

There is awareness of the pendulum swing, there is also awareness of the one attempting to get off the pendulum, any journey we try to make back to ourself is watched by ourself, when this is really seen... even to say 'when' is a bit of a setup, it is seen

Rather than becoming a boring baseline awareness in my experience is ever fresh, even to say it is neutral is wrong, it is, anything else said after that is just an opinion


--------------------

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OfflineTheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.
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Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: Chronic7]
    #21535985 - 04/12/15 06:00 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

:threadmonitor:


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs

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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: Chronic7]
    #21536783 - 04/12/15 10:44 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:

I've never heard it described like that :thumbup:

There is awareness of the pendulum swing, there is also awareness of the one attempting to get off the pendulum, any journey we try to make back to ourself is watched by ourself, when this is really seen... even to say 'when' is a bit of a setup, it is seen

Rather than becoming a boring baseline awareness in my experience is ever fresh, even to say it is neutral is wrong, it is, anything else said after that is just an opinion




Totally agree :smile: If something is boring then one is still wrapped up in the pendulum swing and is not in awareness at all. I would ever go so far as to say that, IMHO, a person making the journey into full awareness can experience ever increasing states of bliss and ecstasy.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
sun child
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Posts: 1,807
Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: PocketLady]
    #21537166 - 04/12/15 12:37 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Yes -- many years ago I realized I could never possibly bored. . it's interesting. . every tiny facet of life is so fascinating.  Also - it's nice when you think about language. . .that can open up so many realizations, the etymology of certain words - brings insight.  With bored - it's simpler than that. . . hehe :smile:


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide

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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
sun child
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Re: Living in time vs eterrnity [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21538234 - 04/12/15 04:26 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Wanted to say a bit more about happiness and kindness.


Happiness is very good, as it profits the whole world when are happy -- we shine, and others benefit.  But it is not the only thing -- Christ taught us that when you hurt anyone, you hurt everyone -- Similarly, when you help anyone, you help everyone, too.  Kindness, love, and selfless service are the ideal way -- to help raise up the disenfranchised millions, to be equal members in society once again, as is their rightful place.  As Christ said, "I will make the mountains and valleys as one."  Kindness is so wonderful because it benefits us too, not only the recipient.  In fact, science has shown us that anyone who performs, receives or merely observes an act of kindness -- all three -- receive a corresponding boost to the immune system.  So while happiness helps us be healthy, I would say selfless love does much more to do so.  As Goethe said, 'Kindness is the golden chain which binds all society together.'  Keeps us together, keeps us from falling apart.

'As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, "The voice of one crying in the wildnerness, make ready the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.  Every ravine will be filled, and every mountain and hill will be brought low, the crooked will become straight, and the rough roads smooth, and all flesh will see the salvation of God."'

Luke 3:4-6

Oh, and I am not only a Christian, or any label - I believe all religions have some truth in them. . I was raised part atheist and part Presbyterian, so to speak. . and we have a nice concept of the Priesthood of all Believers..  One of my ancestors was Joseph Priestley, who helped found Unitarianism, so universality runs in the family, so to speak. 

My parents were both very justice-oriented, so I suppose I have been called toward those teachers who also were, for instance those who emphasize seeing God in the poor and the meek, as well as in the nature and in the cosmos; and those who emphasize service and love - Amma, for instance, or Vivekananda. 

"When superstition enters the brain, the mind is gone,"  -- "Superstition is our great enemy, but bigotry is worse," both by Vivekananda, and

"Perfect womanhood is perfect independence."

Of course Timothy Leary also said something similar -- "A woman who wants to be equal with men lacks ambition."

So, women's rights, the rights of all people -- that is, all beings are sacred, or have the potential to be -- etc., are quite important to me.

Although most important might definitely be protecting all species life -- these others follow very close, and are very intertwined and connected.

And -- as I believe, if one is on very firm footing in life, with faith in oneself, then one can very easily learn from all; for instance Nature Boy by Gandalf (a band);

'The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is just to love and be loved in return.'

Love and peace and truth-

Sincerely.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide

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