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Jeremy62
Northern Neighbour


Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 125
Loc: Cowichan Station BC
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Really need some help folks.... :-(
#21520994 - 04/08/15 06:54 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Good strong Pearl oyster mycelium on rye grain, inoculated to cold pasteurized wheat straw with lime, plastic bags perforated, started out great and then this..........black spot mold. My colonizing room is reasonably clean, Hepa filtered air, good temps and humidity. I did some reading about black mold and really don't understand where I introduced it?
Ideas, input or constructive criticism appreciated. Jeremy
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Mushenstein
Brain Damage



Registered: 02/19/15
Posts: 680
Loc: At The Gates
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: Jeremy62]
#21521085 - 04/08/15 07:06 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would say use a SAB. An entire room is hard to keep without introducing something into it. An SAB is reasonably easy to keep free of contam. But what do I know, I'm a noob.
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Jeremy62
Northern Neighbour


Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 125
Loc: Cowichan Station BC
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: Mushenstein]
#21521108 - 04/08/15 07:12 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Jimmy Slump said: I would say use a SAB. An entire room is hard to keep without introducing something into it. An SAB is reasonably easy to keep free of contam. But what do I know, I'm a noob.
I should have mentioned, I have been doing a good medium sized grow of oysters for a while now with reasonable success and this is now happening without changing anything obvious? I do realize different straw bales have different shit in them etc but my process has been the same....., an SAB would not work but thanks for replying.
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knomadic_niki
A mile high



Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 1,275
Loc: 6200' Colorado
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: Mushenstein]
#21521114 - 04/08/15 07:14 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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bad pasteurization
you spawned in open air so that is where the contams came in.
i'm not familiar with cold pasteurizing. i use . so i can't offer any advice on your pasteurization method unless you were wanting to switch to heat past.
-------------------- My trade list In search of sporeless oyster cultures
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Migraine
Expanding Life


Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Alabama
Last seen: 6 months, 7 days
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: knomadic_niki]
#21521335 - 04/08/15 07:48 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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You logs/bags appear to have too much moisture.
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Jeremy62
Northern Neighbour


Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 125
Loc: Cowichan Station BC
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: knomadic_niki]
#21521339 - 04/08/15 07:48 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
knomadic_niki said: bad pasteurization
you spawned in open air so that is where the contams came in.
i'm not familiar with cold pasteurizing. i use . so i can't offer any advice on your pasteurization method unless you were wanting to switch to heat past.
I am leaning towards pasteurization as well but I have been doing it the same way since the beginning, only difference is I swap between hydrated lime and wood ash when I have ash, seem to do better with the ash....
I cold pasteurize by soaking a barrel of shredded wheat straw inside a barrel of water with lime/ash for 18hrs, drip dry and pack bags while introducing grain spawn. I thought perhaps I am screwing up with the field capacity and having the substrate too wet? Would that encourage black spot mold like pictured?
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knomadic_niki
A mile high



Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 1,275
Loc: 6200' Colorado
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: Jeremy62]
#21521435 - 04/08/15 08:08 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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bad pasteurization and too much moisture
another reason i like heat pasteurization is that a lot of moisture evaporates in steam since the sub is hot. when its cool, its the perfect moisture level. i assume you'd have to leave it out for 12 hours to evaporate enough cold water from the straw in a dry climate, maybe a full 24 hours in a humid climate.
-------------------- My trade list In search of sporeless oyster cultures
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thescientist
Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 807
Loc: Dade County
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: knomadic_niki]
#21522279 - 04/08/15 11:23 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do your bags have any gas exchange?
They do look very wet.
I would change your pasteurization technique.
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Jeremy62
Northern Neighbour


Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 125
Loc: Cowichan Station BC
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: thescientist]
#21523186 - 04/09/15 08:44 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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I perforate the bags with a tool I made, punches lots of tiny holes in the bags, I found it helps keep fruit flies/gnats from getting in to lay eggs, the holes are too small for them to enter but lots of holes so gas exchange should be suffiecent. I also find my pasteurization method has worked in the past but as pointed out, perhaps I am not letting the straw dry out enough before bagging...?
I am going to build a drying table and see what drying it out a little more does and I will give hot pasteurization a go and see if there is any difference, will update, thanks for the help. Jeremy
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Best Daddy
Great Success


Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 143
Loc: Canadamerica
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: Jeremy62]
#21523242 - 04/09/15 09:05 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey. I have lost oyster logs due to excessive moisture as well. Once I altered my procedure the problem was solved. I heat pasteurize, and then rest the hot straw on a screen till cool. The moisture content is perfect every time which results in fast colonization.
SAB or flow hood is a must in my opinion. I think everyone would agree. Good Luck!
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knomadic_niki
A mile high



Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 1,275
Loc: 6200' Colorado
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: Best Daddy]
#21523271 - 04/09/15 09:13 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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you don't need to use a SAB or flow hood to inoculate pasteurized sub. idk why people keep suggesting that....
-------------------- My trade list In search of sporeless oyster cultures
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Jeremy62
Northern Neighbour


Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 125
Loc: Cowichan Station BC
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: knomadic_niki]
#21523276 - 04/09/15 09:16 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
knomadic_niki said: you don't need to use a SAB or flow hood to inoculate pasteurized sub. idk why people keep suggesting that....
I also get confused about this, how would you pack large bags of straw in a SAB, not only cumbersome but it would have to be pretty damn big.....
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Best Daddy
Great Success


Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 143
Loc: Canadamerica
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: knomadic_niki]
#21523280 - 04/09/15 09:17 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
knomadic_niki said: you don't need to use a SAB or flow hood to inoculate pasteurized sub. idk why people keep suggesting that....
You are correct of course! I was talking in general for a mushroom growing operation.
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Jeremy62
Northern Neighbour


Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 125
Loc: Cowichan Station BC
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: Best Daddy]
#21523448 - 04/09/15 10:12 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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So after reading up on "hot pasteurization" I find numerous recipes..........what works for you?
I have a steel drum and some cinder blocks to raise it up, a propane outdoor burner, a digital long prob thermometer and a thick walled plastic garbage can with holes drilled in it that should stand up to the heat, from what I have read 160* core temp?
What temps and "cooking" times work for you folks? Just plain water or add lime of gypsum or...?
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knomadic_niki
A mile high



Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 1,275
Loc: 6200' Colorado
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: Best Daddy]
#21523476 - 04/09/15 10:19 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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ok, that makes more sense.
if past is done properly, you can let the straw air dry and stuff bags in open air without contamination.
my method: pack straw into home made basket, place in 55 gal drum, cover with water, start a fire underneath, put a lid on the drum. stick a probe thermometer in the center of the straw. heat the water to about 180, then let the fire die back to coals. maintain the coals until the center of the straw is at 150-160. keep it there for an hour. remove basket and let drip dry. dump straw on a 6 ft table to steam dry until cool. inoculate and pack bags
-------------------- My trade list In search of sporeless oyster cultures
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knomadic_niki
A mile high



Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 1,275
Loc: 6200' Colorado
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: knomadic_niki]
#21523483 - 04/09/15 10:20 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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don't let the water get over 180 or you will over-pasteurize the straw on the margins of the basket.
-------------------- My trade list In search of sporeless oyster cultures
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solarity
mm... my favourite food



Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 1,590
Loc: UK
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: knomadic_niki]
#21524454 - 04/09/15 02:41 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just a sec. If this has been working for you in the past I think you already highlighted the problem - my guess is that you had a bad batch of straw, maybe it was under a leak or got wet some other way. Before making any huge changes I would just switch your straw out.
You will of course have black mould spores every where so don't forget to bleach your hole maker! As anything on the outside of the bags will get punched into the inside.
-------------------- Commercial exotics farmer for 8 years - now sold up!
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Jeremy62
Northern Neighbour


Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 125
Loc: Cowichan Station BC
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: solarity]
#21524595 - 04/09/15 03:09 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
solarity said: Just a sec. If this has been working for you in the past I think you already highlighted the problem - my guess is that you had a bad batch of straw, maybe it was under a leak or got wet some other way. Before making any huge changes I would just switch your straw out.
You will of course have black mould spores every where so don't forget to bleach your hole maker! As anything on the outside of the bags will get punched into the inside.
VERY good point young man...
Hole punch has already been bleached as well as the entire colonization room and all buckets, barrels and utensils.... next bale of straw is soaking as we speak (cold pasteurization) and I plan on trying hot pasteurizing for the next batch and see how it goes......
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deadmandave
Slime


Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 3,375
Loc:
Last seen: 10 days, 39 minutes
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: Jeremy62]
#21525285 - 04/09/15 05:46 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Another cold pasteurization tek to try is sodium percarbonate, found in "oxy clean" detergents. Might work on a batch of straw when lime won't cut it.
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knomadic_niki
A mile high



Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 1,275
Loc: 6200' Colorado
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Really need some help folks.... :-( [Re: deadmandave]
#21526380 - 04/09/15 09:49 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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good point, solarity
-------------------- My trade list In search of sporeless oyster cultures
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