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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors
    #2151687 - 12/02/03 01:49 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

From: Matt Howes, National Internet Organizer, ACLU
To: ACLU Action Network Members
Date: December 2, 2003

A confidential FBI memo confirms that the federal government is
targeting innocent Americans engaged in nothing more than lawful protest and
dissent.

In the memo the FBI advocates spying on peaceful protesters and
indicates that protesters who engage in civil disobedience or other disruptive
acts should be treated like potential terrorists. It confirms that the
government has monitored the actions of peaceful protestors and wants
intelligence about protestors to be reported to the nearest FBI field
office or terrorism task force.

Peaceful protestors should not be treated as potential terrorists nor
spied upon by federal government agents. Not only is this a misuse of
public funds that could be used to find real terrorists, it chills free
speech activities and inhibits the public debate on important issues.

Take Action! Let Attorney General Ashcroft know that you oppose
government surveillance of peaceful protests.

Click here for more information and to send a free fax:

http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeech.cfm?ID=14469&c=42


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: silversoul7]
    #2151985 - 12/02/03 03:56 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

The US Supreme Court has decided that you have no expectation of privacy in public (namely, from video recording). If you want to congregate in front of the White House, they are allowed to watch you. If you want to do it peacefully in your basement, or on your land, they aren't allowed to.


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2152411 - 12/02/03 06:27 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

who gives a fuck what they decide...i don't like to be filmed period. And if your filmin me without my permision ill take that camera and shove it up your ass. It pisses the shit outta me having cameras at intersections supposedly for "traffic disputes".


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2154532 - 12/03/03 11:42 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

You don't have to be filmed, but you only have the right to say that on your private land. If you come onto the public's land, you do have the right. You can't possibly tell me that you think walking down a street in DC is a "private" event?


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2155806 - 12/03/03 05:36 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

It's not just that they're filming them. It's the fact that they're keeping files on them and investigating their activities when they're doing nothing illegal.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: silversoul7]
    #2155856 - 12/03/03 05:49 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

I see nothing in that article that leads me to believe that they are "keeping files" or "investigating their activities".


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: silversoul7]
    #2155881 - 12/03/03 05:55 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:


In the memo the FBI advocates spying on peaceful protesters and
indicates that protesters who engage in civil disobedience or other disruptive
acts should be treated like potential terrorists. It confirms that the
government has monitored the actions of peaceful protestors and wants
intelligence about protestors to be reported to the nearest FBI field
office or terrorism task force.




If "spying" means using video or other means of ELINT to survey them, it's legal. If you are part of "civil disobedience" or "disruptive acts" you are breaking the law, and thus, the FBI or local police have every right to keep a "file" on you. I see not the point.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2155929 - 12/03/03 06:06 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

enimatpyrt said:
I see not the point. 




you forgot to remove that wool from your eyes... :wink:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2155997 - 12/03/03 06:26 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

I've figured you out!

When you actually reply to my statements and follow a conversation with me, you end up retractiong your statements (as in the gun forum). To prevent yourself from looking like an ass,you've adopted the "Trite statement" debating tactic. Good for your ego, bad for your argumentitive skills.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2156040 - 12/03/03 06:43 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

enimatpyrt said:
I've figured you out!




Amazing...you are very shrewd and cunning then... :lol:

Quote:

enimatpyrt said:When you actually reply to my statements and follow a conversation with me, you end up retractiong your statements (as in the gun forum). 




Its always a possibility...thats the good thing about having an open mind...you can change your opinions based on new information. :laugh:


Quote:

enimatpyrt said:To prevent yourself from looking like an ass,you've adopted the "Trite statement" debating tactic. Good for your ego, bad for your argumentitive skills. 




Why would you think i'd feel like an ass for logically changin my stance in a resonable argument?! I do not share your insecurities.



--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2156045 - 12/03/03 06:44 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

enimatpyrt said:
I see nothing in that article that leads me to believe that they are "keeping files" or "investigating their activities".



Sounds like it to me:
Quote:

It confirms that the government has monitored the actions of peaceful protestors and wants intelligence about protestors to be reported to the nearest FBI field office or terrorism task force.





--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: silversoul7]
    #2156049 - 12/03/03 06:46 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

It gets too ambigious when it links the "peaceful protestors" and "civil disobedient" protestors. They are far from being one in the same. Which one is having files kept on them?


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2156097 - 12/03/03 07:04 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Probably all, just to make certain.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2158635 - 12/04/03 05:34 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Here's more information about it that I just recieved in my email:

The ACLU has denounced a classified FBI intelligence memorandum, obtained by the New York Times, which gives police detailed instructions on how to target and monitor lawful political demonstrations under the rubric of fighting terrorism.

"This bulletin confirms that the federal government is targeting innocent Americans engaged in nothing more than lawful protest and dissent. The American people deserve an explanation for what is clearly a return to the days of J. Edgar Hoover's spying tactics," said Anthony D. Romero, ACLU Executive Director.

According to a front-page story in the New York Times, the memorandum was circulated to local law enforcement agencies around the country in advance of mass marches and rallies in Washington, DC and San Francisco against the U.S. occupation in Iraq.

The memorandum, the Times reports, details peaceful protest activities such as rehearsing for demonstrations, and using the Internet for activities like raising money and purchasing gas masks to defend against tear gas.

Of particular concern is one section warning law enforcement about protesters' use of videotaping as an "intimidation" technique. Most mainstream demonstrators often use videotape during protests to document law enforcement activity and, more importantly, deter police from acting outside the law.

Citing no evidence of suspected unlawful activity by the protesters, the memorandum claims that law enforcement officials, including the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Forces (JTTF), should track these lawful protest tactics.

Disturbingly, the ACLU has already seen proof that peaceful activities were being monitored by the JTTF. Documents recently obtained by the ACLU of Colorado as part of its "Spy Files" lawsuit against Denver police confirmed that the local JTTF has been collecting information about peaceful protest activities that have nothing to do with terrorism or any other criminal activity.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: Oppose Government Surveillance of Peaceful Protestors [Re: silversoul7]
    #5315395 - 02/19/06 03:07 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Wow. How low can the government go. No citizens should have to be trying to explain there actions. Shame on anyone that does. Question your leaders and keep an open mind. This shit is wrong.


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