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Invisiblemr crisper
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
do shrinks help?
    #2151207 - 12/02/03 09:54 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

just curious? :nut: 


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InvisibleJellric
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Registered: 11/08/98
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: mr crisper]
    #2151354 - 12/02/03 10:58 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

A good one may.

I have only had a couple of experiences with them. One was actually a retired preacher who my parents asked me to talk to when I went through the usual teen angst phase. That didn't work out well because they were present during the session which put me in a defensive mode, plus the religion thing added into the equation ended any chance of success.

The other was a couple of sessions with a "shrink" at my college when my grades were falling during my sophmore year. He was actually helpful to me (but only years later when I grokked what he was doing). He basically just told me I needed to relax. I didn't think I had a problem with that, but it turned out I was "becalming" myself or white-knuckling life instead of going with the flow.

So yeah, they can be helpful. The best shrink is ideally yourself though. But many people have trouble self-reflecting an accurate picture of themselves because they aren't being honest with themselves. In those cases, another party could be helpful if they are skilled.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: Jellric]
    #2151364 - 12/02/03 11:03 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I think it's good to talk to someone about problems. It's a shame we send people to shrinks instead of helping each other though.


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #2151421 - 12/02/03 11:26 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Sole_Worthy said:
I think it's good to talk to someone about problems. It's a shame we send people to shrinks instead of helping each other though.




The shrinks are other people.



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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: NariusFractal]
    #2151728 - 12/02/03 02:07 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

If shrinks do help, why do a lot of people in the U.S. see one regularly while Europeans in general don't?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2152079 - 12/02/03 04:21 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

because the people in the US like to dwell on their problems more. just a guess...


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  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Offlinesykobish
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: mr crisper]
    #2152172 - 12/02/03 04:51 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I would say that shrinks do help. I'm going to major in psychology and i believe that i will be able to help alot of people. I don't think Psychiatrists help tho. They are the ones that hand out medication to mask the problem, when Psychologists actually listen to the problems and try to fix it or mend it without the use of medication.

There is nothing wrong about going to a professional when you feel you need some help with certain aspects of your life. They can offer a different perspective on the situation. Most often it's easier to figure out how to solve a problem when you take a step back and look at it from an outsiders view.

As for the question as to why Europeans in general don't find the need to speak to a professional, i don't know the answer for sure, but my take on it would be that European families are closer then American families therefore they have the support of everyone around them. American families, these days especially, are so caught up in money, status and work that they tend to put family matters in the background. I could be wrong, but that's my personal interpretation. I have alot of European friends and i have noticed a huge difference in their family life, values and morals..


--------------------
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-={Nite-Crew}=-

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To love is to admire with the heart; to admire is to love with the mind. - Th?ophile Gautier.
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OfflineCeeEssGee
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: sykobish]
    #2154010 - 12/03/03 03:52 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

I wouldn't go as far to say that psychiatrists don't help at all. What there needs to be, is a proper balance between the tried, tested, and true, traditional methods of drugs, and alternative help. There are sometimes when the drugs are just needed, as I have seen evident in numerous friends.

For example, my friend who is extremely bright, was getting 50s, and 60s in school, sitting at home, smoking pot and eating like a fucking pig all day. His psychiatrist gave him dexedrin, his marks, almost instantaneously went up to 90s, he started exercising and lost quite a bit of weight, while still managing to eat regular meals (well, around the start I was a little worried, but he eventually did start eating more regularly..). There is no doubt in my mind that he is very dependent on the dexedrin, but at least it gives him a chance.

Now, I don't know if this is true in his case, but there truly are people with chemical imbalances. You just can't solve that by having them lay down on a couch and tell you their problems; it is just not possible.

Still, I do believe that psychiatrists hand out pills far too easily, and far too excessive, and that pills are the last resort. Regardless, that does not completely remove them from the equation, they are very useful when they are needed.


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Why, sirrah, why may a caudled fillhorse be deemed the brother to a hiren candle in the night? Withal, because a candle may be greased, yet a fillhorse be without a fat argier!


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: mr crisper]
    #2154306 - 12/03/03 09:26 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

I think it really all depends. Not all psychologists are created equal and it really matters what you are seeing them for.

If there are things in your life and in your past you need to work out,they can really help by giving you a different perspective on things. But if you have some serious clinical depression or another serious mental disorder,I don't think all the talk in the world will really do much. However, a lot of people with mental disorders are socially isolated and giving someone to vent their feelings can help.

If someone is being treated for a mental disorder that didn't soley arise from life events,like endogenous depression or psychosis,they need psychiatric and psychological treatment.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Offlinesykobish
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #2156104 - 12/03/03 07:08 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

CeeEssGee said:
I wouldn't go as far to say that psychiatrists don't help at all.




If i'm not mistaken, i didn't say that either.  What i said was   I don't think Psychiatrists help tho.  That's my opinion and my vague reasoning is exactly what you have already said at the bottom of your post, in regards to psychiatrists handing out pills too readily..

Quote:

What there needs to be, is a proper balance between the tried, tested, and true, traditional methods of drugs, and alternative help.  There are sometimes when the drugs are just needed, as I have seen evident in numerous friends.




So you believe that everyone reacts the exact same way to every medication?  Hmm.. That worries me..  So, what happens when someone is given a prescription and they don't necessarily need it?  What happens when they become dependant and addicted to it and are then given OTHER medications to help ween them off of previous medications.. etc.. ?  Sounds like a wonderful life to me.  Take medication till your dying day cuz of some doctor who needed to meet his 'prescription writing quota'..

Quote:

For example, my friend who is extremely bright, was getting 50s, and 60s in school, sitting at home, smoking pot and eating like a fucking pig all day.  His psychiatrist gave him dexedrin, his marks, almost instantaneously went up to 90s, he started exercising and lost quite a bit of weight, while still managing to eat regular meals (well, around the start I was a little worried, but he eventually did start eating more regularly..).  There is no doubt in my mind that he is very dependent on the dexedrin, but at least it gives him a chance.




He obviously had no motivation, so GIVE HIM DRUGS!! THAT'S THE ANSWER.. :rolleyes:  Anyone ever try getting to the root of the problem or motivate him WITHOUT drugs?? Oh wait, a chemical imbalance must be the reason he's a slob and doesn't wanna get off his lazy ass.. I understand now.. :smirk:

Quote:

Now, I don't know if this is true in his case, but there truly are people with chemical imbalances.  You just can't solve that by having them lay down on a couch and tell you their problems; it is just not possible.




I'm well aware of chemical imbalances.. That's quite a bold statement you've declared.. Have you done research in this area to know for a fact?  If so, i'd love to see your notes.

Quote:

Still, I do believe that psychiatrists hand out pills far too easily, and far too excessive, and that pills are the last resort.




Hense why i said I don't think Psychiatrists help.. Thanks for elaborating for me more extensively. 


--------------------
I would rather have had one breath of her hair, one kiss from her mouth, one touch of her hand, than eternity without it. One.
-={Nite-Crew}=-

*-_Thread_Jacker_-*
To love is to admire with the heart; to admire is to love with the mind. - Th?ophile Gautier.
Seek not every quality in one individual - Confucius.
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OfflineCeeEssGee
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Registered: 09/29/02
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: sykobish]
    #2157362 - 12/04/03 04:25 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

So you believe that everyone reacts the exact same way to every medication? Hmm.. That worries me.. So, what happens when someone is given a prescription and they don't necessarily need it? What happens when they become dependant and addicted to it and are then given OTHER medications to help ween them off of previous medications.. etc.. ? Sounds like a wonderful life to me. Take medication till your dying day cuz of some doctor who needed to meet his 'prescription writing quota'..





Psychiatrists need to be careful with what they hand out, and in what amount, just the same as any other doctor.  Not all of them get it right, but that hardly means that it is safe to say that no psychiatrists help, just because there's a few bad ones.  I'm sure there are quite a few psychologists, don't you?

Quote:

If i'm not mistaken, i didn't say that either. What i said was I don't think Psychiatrists help tho. That's my opinion and my vague reasoning is exactly what you have already said at the bottom of your post, in regards to psychiatrists handing out pills too readily..




Yep, and my reply was also, in fact, my opinion. I don't see any "some", "usually", or "most of the time" in your stated opinion, so it can be inferred that you were referring to all psychiatrists.  If you didn't mean it that way, fine, then there's nothing to argue, is there?  I simply think that there are times when a psychiatrist is needed, as well as a psychologist.

Quote:

He obviously had no motivation, so GIVE HIM DRUGS!! THAT'S THE ANSWER..  Anyone ever try getting to the root of the problem or motivate him WITHOUT drugs?? Oh wait, a chemical imbalance must be the reason he's a slob and doesn't wanna get off his lazy ass.. I understand now..




Please save out the rolling of eyes and smirks if you're going to be engaged in a civil argument, there's no reason to be rude.  I have only supplied my opinion, which you have always stressed everyone is entitled to.  Yes, he was given drugs because a psychologist didn't work.  He's happy now, and he is a lot healthier because of the dexedrin.  Without it, he simply isn't capable of functioning.

Quote:

I'm well aware of chemical imbalances.. That's quite a bold statement you've declared.. Have you done research in this area to know for a fact? If so, i'd love to see your notes.




I've done research on schizophrenia, mainly, and you're free to read my notes anytime you want.  The truth is, the brain is still something that the science community can not completely understand, and nothing can be proven either way.  From my research, and, based on my opinion on that research (and, also, others' opinions who I respect more than mine), there is a possibility to have a chemical imbalance, that is not treatable by anything but drugs, if that.

Quote:

Hense why i said I don't think Psychiatrists help.. Thanks for elaborating for me more extensively.




Saying that the typical psychiatrist hands out pills too easily means that psychiatry is a complete waste?  By golly, that must mean all men are assholes, all women are bitches, all cops are crooked, all lawyers are evil money-grubbing bastards?  No, I just see that there needs to be better psychiatrists, who try other things before handing out pills.

I'll admit though, I am extremely wary of most pills, and chemicals.  I HATE painkillers, and I only took dexedrin a couple times to see how much it helped productivity.  I have had a few friends who have clearly taken far too many pills, either by their own means, or by a psychiatrist's orders, and it annoys me.  Still, I'm very happy about what I've seen in my afformentioned friend, who takes dexedrin regularly, and seeing that bright side of it has made me supportive over a controlled, safe  use of some psychiatric medicines. 

If you truly believe that psychology is the only way though, and that you need to do everything you can, except use pills, to help someone, then go for it.  You may prove me wrong, and I hope you do, but until you do, I stand by my opinion that there are some people who simply can not be helped by normal means.

Finally..  :heart: don't hate me because I have a differing opinion.  :frown: 


--------------------
Why, sirrah, why may a caudled fillhorse be deemed the brother to a hiren candle in the night? Withal, because a candle may be greased, yet a fillhorse be without a fat argier!


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Offlinesykobish
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #2158654 - 12/04/03 05:42 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

CeeEssGee said:
Psychiatrists need to be careful with what they hand out, and in what amount, just the same as any other doctor.  Not all of them get it right, but that hardly means that it is safe to say that no psychiatrists help, just because there's a few bad ones.  I'm sure there are quite a few psychologists, don't you?




I don't recall saying that NO psychiatrists help.  Refer to my previous post.

Quote:

Yep, and my reply was also, in fact, my opinion. I don't see any "some", "usually", or "most of the time" in your stated opinion, so it can be inferred that you were referring to all psychiatrists.  If you didn't mean it that way, fine, then there's nothing to argue, is there?  I simply think that there are times when a psychiatrist is needed, as well as a psychologist.




That's right, you didn't.  Because i said "I don't think.." and vaguely stated why.  I was speaking in general, which i'm sure you can agree, that in GENERAL psychiatrists harm more then help.

Quote:

Please save out the rolling of eyes and smirks if you're going to be engaged in a civil argument, there's no reason to be rude.  I have only supplied my opinion, which you have always stressed everyone is entitled to.  Yes, he was given drugs because a psychologist didn't work.  He's happy now, and he is a lot healthier because of the dexedrin.  Without it, he simply isn't capable of functioning.




I wasn't rude.  Relax.  You are entitled to your own opinion and yes i do stress that fact, but for you to lay such a claim as to mention such a bold statement of how not every problem can be solved without the help of medication without anything solid to back that fact up.. and lets not forget adding:

The truth is, the brain is still something that the science community can not completely understand, and nothing can be proven either way.

.. that goes to prove that you are not completely sure, therefore you shouldn't be saying such a bold statement.

Quote:

Saying that the typical psychiatrist hands out pills too easily means that psychiatry is a complete waste?  By golly, that must mean all men are assholes, all women are bitches, all cops are crooked, all lawyers are evil money-grubbing bastards?  No, I just see that there needs to be better psychiatrists, who try other things before handing out pills.




So, we seem to agree.  Then why did you make the initial post where you countered everything i said?  That's what i dont understand.

Btw, all men are assholes, all women are bitches, all cops are crooked, and all lawyers are evil money-grubbing bastards.. Why, YES, in general that's all true.  Do you disagree?

Quote:

If you truly believe that psychology is the only way though, and that you need to do everything you can, except use pills, to help someone, then go for it.  You may prove me wrong, and I hope you do, but until you do, I stand by my opinion that there are some people who simply can not be helped by normal means.




Again, you are putting words into my mouth.  I never said that Psychology was the ONLY way.. I merely said that i believed that, in my opinion, psychiatrists didn't help as much because they are too quick to hand out medication without actually finding out the root of the problem or trying to fix it that way, which is what psychologists do.

Quote:

Finally..  :heart: don't hate me because I have a differing opinion.  :frown: 




You make me sound like a monster.  Cuz i don't agree with what you say, that means i hate you? ....


--------------------
I would rather have had one breath of her hair, one kiss from her mouth, one touch of her hand, than eternity without it. One.
-={Nite-Crew}=-

*-_Thread_Jacker_-*
To love is to admire with the heart; to admire is to love with the mind. - Th?ophile Gautier.
Seek not every quality in one individual - Confucius.
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Offlineaje
Why not?
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: sykobish]
    #2159074 - 12/04/03 08:27 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

to answer the question. no
not at all

if you want help by talking about your problems, go hang out with one of your best friends for a night and at sometime, go outside, smoke a cigarette, and let it all out. best solution in my opinion. talking to somebody you know will help a lot more. plus once you start talking they will start talking too (especially if both of you are *partially* drunk)and you can sort of react with each other and help each other out. last time i did this my friend and i ended up writing a couple songs together. (i play guitar, he sings and im teaching him to play guitar) it was a good night.............

btw, sorry for getting off topic while trying to answer your question

basically, i think talking to a shrink wouldn't help because you won't have that connection like you would with one of your good friends, because they dont know you.


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OfflineCeeEssGee
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: sykobish]
    #2159150 - 12/04/03 08:51 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Well, your writing has a tone to it.  Add to that the "eye rolling", and "smirks", it really is quite insulting.  I don't know if you mean to do this (I've told you, I can be a complete asshole on the internet occasionally, and not even notice), but it is there.

Still, saying "I think.." does not mean "in general", or "most of the time".  We are agreed then, that most psychiatrists are horrible?  SPLENDID!  There are still some that can help though, right?  RIGHT!  Fabulous :smile:


--------------------
Why, sirrah, why may a caudled fillhorse be deemed the brother to a hiren candle in the night? Withal, because a candle may be greased, yet a fillhorse be without a fat argier!


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Offlinesykobish
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #2159422 - 12/04/03 10:07 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Well, in SGC i'm serious. You know me enough that you shouldn't take things so personally. Lets drop the 'i think' 'in general' 'most of the time' talk.. This is going nowhere.


--------------------
I would rather have had one breath of her hair, one kiss from her mouth, one touch of her hand, than eternity without it. One.
-={Nite-Crew}=-

*-_Thread_Jacker_-*
To love is to admire with the heart; to admire is to love with the mind. - Th?ophile Gautier.
Seek not every quality in one individual - Confucius.
Global Living Space


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OfflineSuperLazy
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: sykobish]
    #2161880 - 12/05/03 04:29 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)



The truth is, the brain is still something that the science community can not completely understand, and nothing can be proven either way.

Very true, indeed. I think something like less than 30% is has been adequately explored. Mind bogglign really when you consider all the advances we've made in medical science.


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" Don't ration your compassion " - unknown


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: do shrinks help? [Re: SuperLazy]
    #2164684 - 12/06/03 06:30 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

I've been to a couple of different counsellors for different issues. The ones that helped were the ones who had a specialisation in the area I had a problem. So I reckon it is definately worth finding out the counsellors specialisations before paying the bucks otherwise you might waste your money or at least your time if they are free.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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