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Offlineapplesauce
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Registered: 11/30/03
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Most potent shroom
    #2150730 - 12/01/03 11:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Is P. Cubensis considered the most potent shroom or is it just the easiest to grow? And how does P. Weilii rank as far as potentcy?


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: applesauce]
    #2150771 - 12/01/03 11:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

ummm.. searching helps..

The most potent isnt exaclty known.. Conditions can change things one way or another.. Wood lovers seem to be the strongest yet smaller..

A search will get u more indepth information


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Offlinedjd586
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Registered: 02/03/03
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: Legoulash] * 1
    #2150799 - 12/01/03 11:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Top Ten "Most Potent" Shrooms

10. P. stuntzii

9. P. hoogshagenii

8. P. weilii

7. P. cubensis

6. P. tampanensis

5. P. cyanescens

4. P. baeocystis

3. P. semilanceata

2. P. bohemica

1. P. azurenscens

From "The psilometric scale of comparative potency of selected Psilocybe mushrooms" at Erowid.




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OfflineWiener
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Registered: 10/21/03
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Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: djd586]
    #2151082 - 12/02/03 01:20 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Azures are the most potent??? Good to know.


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Offlineorizon
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Registered: 08/22/03
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: Wiener]
    #2151094 - 12/02/03 06:43 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yep Azures are the most potent...unfortunately they are hard to find and even harder to grow.


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: orizon]
    #2151262 - 12/02/03 10:24 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

They're not too hard to find if you know where to look and when.


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: applesauce]
    #2151292 - 12/02/03 10:37 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

MJ, could you give some information on P. Bohemica? I'd appreciate it!!  :smile: 


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2151489 - 12/02/03 11:56 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I've heard you can grow P. azurenscens mycelium on cardboard, then plant the cardboard into well composted wood chips. That's just what I've heard.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: Funguy]
    #2151501 - 12/02/03 12:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The most postent shrooms are aP. cyanescens. paul only found one shroom one time which contained a large amount of psilocbine in it. However studies by Me, gartz and stijve show the baby P. cyanescens are foive times trhe f odsage of all the others and cubensis and P. pelliculosa are the two weatkest by dry weight.

I have explained this over and over and over.

four to six large P. cyanescens mushrooms weighing one dresh ounce gets four to six people high.

A fresh ounce of P. cyanescens with twnety to four or more mushrooms weighing one fresh ounces gets ten or more people high. ASk anyone who has eaten those little babies. And lab studies on storage show liberty caps and cyans hold their potency for ytears while P. azurescens looses over half to two thirds iafdter four to six months of storage.

One collection of liberty caps from the UK collected in 1851 was analysed with a collection from 1976 and both collects were as potent as if they had just been picked.

P. bophemica is a moderately active shroom similar to P. cyanofibrilosa.

COnocybe cyanopus takes 75 to 100 or more small shrooms. their weight at that level is 1/3 of a fresh ounce. They are small and fragile and very light in weight so there are three doses to a feresh ounce.

P. baeocystis are very potent in a fresh stage but two days drying wioll take over 50% of the high.

Copelandia species are also very potent in a fresh stage and more so in the younger specimens. They to lose much potency by improper handling. Dry weight is one gram while Psilocybe cyanescens cans sometimes produce 4/8 highs in a dry gram of pinners..

Mj


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OfflineGod
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Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: nicechrisman]
    #2152611 - 12/02/03 07:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
They're not too hard to find if you know where to look and when.



nothing is too hard to find if you know where and when to look. thats the point. they're hard to find because most people dont know where to look or when


--------------------
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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: God]
    #2153059 - 12/02/03 10:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Why would you feel it nessessary for people to bow down to you? You're God. You shouldn't need anything at all.

Kudos to my main man MJ Shroomer. I had no idea P. cyanescens was the most potent. I always thought Azures were. I believe you MJ, but why does everyone else think that Azures are??




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Offlinedazzyboi
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Registered: 08/30/03
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: Learyfan]
    #2155736 - 12/03/03 05:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Iv got the 3rd most potent shrooms waiting to be eaten :smile::) Makes it more worth the wait


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Most potent shroom [Re: dazzyboi]
    #2156165 - 12/03/03 07:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Because one mushroom Paul stamets had weighed higher than the normal reports of the dosage per gram per kilogram of body weight.

He has never again had one ever that potent. P. azures also seem to loose potency when store for four to six months.


But the arithmetic is correct on the cyan dosages.

The other potent one is Copelandia cyanescens which is similar in strength at times but it also depends on where they are in the teropics or neo tropics and similar climates.

Australian ones were high in psilocne wi hile those frm America and Thailand were high in psilocybine.
If handled properly and with no or as little as possible damage tot he flesh are potent at one dried gram equal to 3-5 dried grams of P. cubensis.

And remember in cubes the dose fresh could be one med-to-large shroom wweighing one fresh ounce or it could be 10 to 50 small little P. cubes. I have seen many of the small ones in the filelds in Thailand.

And Guzman has written on one of his trips at about 45-50 fresh specimens weighing a similar ounce.

While the liberty caps are very potent at 1-2 dried grams, 20 to 40 fresh are a good and rewarding experience. On the other hand a lawn mushroom, comprising two separate species (P. stuntzii and P. fimetaria, also require 20 to 40 fresh shrooms, but hte small specimens are not as potent in volume by weight like P. cyanescens is.

The Baeosy are strong when fresh but v ery potent and very fast. Some people report difficulty breathing but this is because the amount consumed in the baeos is a lot. dried they lose so much potency.

Cyans and liberty caps are the two best of the dried shrooms because they hold their potency and when weighed out equally the doses are even. Normal large P. cyansescens, as noted, eearlier, supply 40 or more doses per dried ounce when put into 00-ought capsules with equal highs in each capsule. However, the come-on is fast when eaten in that manner.
With cubensis, Bigwood and Beug also noted and recognized that each shroom contains a different amount of the various trytamines in each region collected or each mushroom grown in vitro and in same strains having different potency levels when grown in different substrates and then tney also varied form different strains in a similar manner.

Hope that is not confusing to everyone.

psilocybe cyanescens picked on one side of the street can have a higher level of potency than the one on the other side of the street. Depends on fertilizers, temperatures, annual precipitation of rain, etc. But when gathered, weigh and then capped, you will have each single dose of the same potency.
A good way to remember, but also there are 186 species of mushrooms containing psilocine/psilocybine and related cousins.

AND each species from 13 families have different potencys levels to their genera. Even Psilocybe can range from 6-8 doses in a signle dried gram to as many as 3-5 dried grams of cubies to 7 or 8 grams of Gymnopilus.

And I noted also the Conocybe, 3 doses to a fresh ounce, could be up to 150 tiny mushrooms or over four hundred in a fresh ounce.


So Dosage is important. Paul is in the workshop and cultivating edibles day in and out so he created a charrt of known analytical figures of potency levels. But my cyans is not based solely on bioassay, but also from several unpublished work by me, Gartz, Stijve and Guzman, a who is aware of their potency.

mj


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OfflinefIsh in my head
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2159710 - 12/04/03 11:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)


and what about Panaeolus Cyanescens potency?

random question : why the Pan. Cyans contains psilocybin and is not classified as a Psilocybe? I did some homeworks (i hope) because if I remember, cyanescens means -which turns blue- or something like that.

oh well, enlightened me, all true mycologists around here.

.fs.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Most potent shroom [Re: fIsh in my head]
    #2160612 - 12/05/03 07:16 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Fish in my head,

Copelanndia is a seaparate genus from Psilocybe. That is why it is named Copelandia and not Psilocybe. You need to study somewhat more if you want to learn about the names of mushrooms and their histories. Then you would know why they have different names.


Worldwide, there are 13 families comprising 186 spiecies of mushrooms which are known to contain psilocine and psilocybine. The main genera is Psilocybe, then there are Copelandia, Panaeolus, Agrocybe, Hypholoma, Mycena, Gymnopilus, Inocybe, Concocybe, pluteus and even one species of Galerina.

Psilocybe genera has more than 115 species iont he family. The chemicals were named after the genera Psilocybe.

Copelandia cyanescens takes 7 to 10 shrooms frsh or one dried gram to two.

However, nmany collectors of Copelandia/Panaeolus species always cause much damage tot he flesh of the shroom during picking , handling and carry of such which causes much osidation in the mushrooms.

ANd The australian ones are high in psilocine while Hawaiian Copealandias were found to be high in Psilocybine.

The more psilocybine the higher one gets. It is your body which converts the psilocybine into psilocine through amination/.

mj

Psilocybe cyanescens as noted above are the most potent of all the species.


Edited by mjshroomer (12/05/03 07:19 AM)


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2160649 - 12/05/03 07:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

MJ - your speaking from bioassay experience ofcourse because there is no alkaloid analysis that demonstrates Ps.cyanescens to be more potent than the maxima reported in Ps.Azurescens.
It is now commonly agreed by most ethnomycologists in the know based on bioassay - Anno, myself, Joshua and im sure MJ - that the majority of the Ps.cyanescens branch of Psilocybes are the most potent species: These include Ps.bohemica, Ps.cyanescens, Ps.subaeruginosa, Ps.azurescens, and possibily Ps.arcana. The differences between these mushrooms in terms of potency are marginal - they are all highly potent. I have personally tried cyanescens, subaeruginosa and azurescens many times with the help of cultivation for the first and the later and I can tell you that Anno was correct in stating that the differences here were minute.
The table from Stamet's book is completely misleading and is based on floored analysis conducted on a few species of Psilocybes.
The mushrooms Ps.semilanceata - Ps.Weilli - Ps.Zapotecorum - Ps.aucklandii - Ps.caerulescens - and allies are also reported to be highly potent - Ps.semilanceata less so than the woodlovers of the cyanescens family, but still quite potent.
I have heard of reports of Ps.aucklandii being considered in New Zealand as more potent than subaeruginosa - but i cannot confirm this.

Mushrooms of the Copelandia are more potent than Ps.cubensis, but do not compare in potency by weight or by quantity to the woodlovers of the cyanescens family.

Cubensis and Pellicosa are regarded as considerably weaker species than all of the above.

Stamet's suggestion that cubensis is even comparable in potency to Ps.weilli or Ps.cyanescens is ludicrious and demonstrates his lack of experience with these mushrooms.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2160910 - 12/05/03 11:35 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Blue meanie, Gartz, Stijve and i have unpublished chromatograms showing p. xcyanescens at a higher percentagge than Paul's single P. azurescens gram used in his analytical study. However, much of what you said is correct except the P. bohemica is not that npotent. I have consumed them on four ocassions In Germany from Gartz.

I just erased some of the text accidently so I am not sure of what I said.

Yes I also used the bioassays for P. cyanescens, and have unpublished analysis in my files as does Gartaz, and Stijve. I also find this potency levels of P. cyans as the highest in mosst people who have eaten them, and esspecially the small ones and they are more postent by the same weight levels and amounts of shrooms as I noted above.
I too have heard a few reports about the potency of aucklandia ove P. subs and since i ate aucklandii twice and P. subs only once, my P. sub experiences was definitely more potent that that of the aucklandii highs I experienced.

And the Baeos would be closer to P. cyan potencies but only inthe fresh stages.

They do lose more than 1/2 to 2/3's pf a high when d ried.

And I told Pauyl long ago about his geraphic chart being way off on potency levels.

I even have pages of analysis of single specimens of P. samuiensis, vs P. mjexicana, P. cyanescens and three other species including liberty caps along with P. subbalteatus.

have a shroomy day and great to see you posting again. havi ent seen you for a while .
have a shroomy day,

mj


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2162796 - 12/05/03 10:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'd like to see the chromatograms.

I'd also like to point out the differences with in Pan. subb's, there are at least two well defined groups of Pan. subb's of which the temperate variety is less potent. When referring to potency of the specie it may be helpful to indicate which group you are referring.

Joshua


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Offlineangryjslice
now with 20%more anger
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Re: Most potent shroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2162844 - 12/05/03 10:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
The main genera is Psilocybe, then there are Copelandia, Panaeolus, Agrocybe, Hypholoma, Mycena, Gymnopilus, Inocybe, Concocybe, pluteus and even one species of Galerina.




i swear i was just reading that upon analysis of Gymnopilus they did not find any conclusive amount of psilocybin, or any psilo for that matter. something along the lines of a different neurotoxin being the cause of all the effects, being isolated at the moment. ahhh if i could only find the link again...damn my fleeting memory. if anyone knows the article im talking about please hook me up with a link.

so if azures arnt the most potent, why all the fuss? is there that much misinformation really spread by the shroomery, erowid and many other very factual websites that people rely on for the truth?

nobody seems to be complaining about there potency anywho, thats for sure.

~JSlice~


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Offlinebeam
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Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 153
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Most potent shroom [Re: angryjslice]
    #2163155 - 12/06/03 01:22 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Bluemeanie!

When the p.subs and family get larger do they all go wavy capped?

Just had a look at your site and saw that p.subs were flatter, p.aus were wavy and p.euc when upturned and from pics look cracked. If this is a way to tell the difference, in the 5 or so patches i had this year (all in 30 metre radius of each other)i had mushrooms that took on all of those appearences and one patch had smallish wavy capped and the radius would of only been 4 cm's or so.


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