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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
sun child
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Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
Re: complexity [Re: egoproctor]
    #21650916 - 05/07/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Is there a trade off between what humans create and what they destroy in this view of complexity?  How does the increasing rate of extinction of life on planet earth fit into this idea of increasing complexity?  Wouldn't nature become more simplistic in exchange for the increasing complexity of mankinds' ideas create a net increase in complexity of almost 0?  Or how the chinese are leveling entire mountain ranges to create factory areas that pollute the environment and destroy life?  Seems more like a state change than an increase in complexity.  If humans create the menans of their own extinction will the universe still continue to increase in complexity after its agents of creation are gone.  Sounds like self congratulatory nonsense as we consume the perceivable universe until it becomes entropic.


It would be immeasurably better for humans to shift their focus away from theirselves, and their lives, and onto the crises that are happening all around the globe, as a direct result of their sky-rocketing into prominence on this planet, wreaking environmental havoc on every continent.

These are 'dire' words, but everything should be read with a supreme joy, confidence, and faith and trust in the peace that is to come -- without regard to conditional circumstances, the natural state of the soul, which is every being, and every life force, is one with the light of the universe. . . each one is not just a Buddha, but the source of boundless Buddhas, and the source of healing for infinite worlds.  This is who we we are.  Light.  Photons, which have one reality, which they then somehow divide into multiple realities.  If you are ever suffering, know it is very, very, very temporary.

Anyway, mysticism aside, the message means nothing if it does not connect us more to the results of our actions, so that we may find the correct path of actions.  It is not actually important how humanity arrives at its correct course of action (reducing consumption immeasurably, and preserve species).

For humanity to do this, simplest would be to reduce the numbers to about 1 billion. . this is very sustainable at a very good level of living - could be way, way, way better standard of living than we have now, making us look impovershed in our current state of being. 

Humanely, of course.


One thing I can say, is few people speak as passionately as Chinese biologists.




Selflessness does some good things in personal life - selfishness when it's brought to its highest, is about the same, but probably bumpier along the way


But in terms of global ecologic factors, selfishness or selflessness

on the part of humanity as a whole,


meet almost instantly.


If we don't curb our selfishness as a global force on this planet, we will suffer a fair amount,


If we do curb it and reach psychospiritual maturity as a fledgling species,


We will effectively not suffer at all, not in relation to what could happen if we don't.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
Re: complexity [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21650976 - 05/07/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Things get complex because they can IMO.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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InvisiblehTx
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Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
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Re: complexity [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21759147 - 06/03/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150601172834.htm

"An earlier code, which enabled the earliest coded peptides to bind RNA, may have furnished a decisive selective advantage. And this primitive system could then undergo a natural selection process, thereby launching a new and more biological form of evolution.

"The collaboration between RNA and peptides was likely necessary for the spontaneous emergence of complexity," Carter added. "In our view, it was a peptide-RNA world, not an RNA-only world."


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: complexity [Re: hTx]
    #21759440 - 06/03/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 9 months ago)

Perhaps everything is a macrocosm and microcosm, the race of humanity is like a human body, eventually it comes to pass...

The soul of the universe is within the speck of ash


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I am that, which is.

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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
Re: complexity [Re: Khancious]
    #21945539 - 07/15/15 03:41 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Okay well I'm just a humanities guy. Just look out for the technology and associated drones (no not AI).

Here's a bump from Terrence Meckenna.


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Invisibleegoproctor
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Posts: 147
Loc: Ningbo, China
Re: complexity [Re: hTx]
    #23617008 - 09/06/16 05:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Entropy is a mathematical fiction created due to a failing of Newtonian mechanics to accurately describe how the universe works.  Two major points that Newton did not investigate or describe were Sympathetic Vibratory Physics and electromagnetic plasma physics.

Entropy as a scientific concept was born because observers were unable to predict the flow of particles in super heated gasses once they were allowed to cool and there was a temperature equilibrium reached.  Entropy is just a $10 word for heat dissipation and nothing else.  Very smart people got lost in their imaginations and created all manner of nonsense about order and chaos, in part because they believe in the silliness  of a Big Bang. 

Deep examination of plasma physics as compared to observational astronomy shows that the universe is an open and stable system governed by electromagnetic forces and sympathetic vibratory physics.  Entropy does not exist in an open system, and gravity is a byproduct of electromagnetics, it is not an Independent force and it does not control the universe.  Plasma Cosmology, and through extension electric universe cosmology, provide ample evidence for other mechanisms that are simpler and readily verifiable than those used by standard model cosmology.  No black holes, no Big Bang, no relativity, no dark matter, no heat death of an expanding universe, no nuclear sun, no neutron stars, and no entropy.  That is all mathematical invention born of thought experiments similar to the epicycles of Ptolemaic geocentrism.  This includes the semi-usable but mostly nonsensical works of quantum theory, which again is pure mathematical speculation taken as truth.  Practically all of Quantum Mechanics can be explained with Sympathetic Vibratory Physics, Plasma Physics, and Electrical Engineering.  The rest, like particle physics is just garbage that takes up space in people's heads and produces noting concrete in the physical world. It is a distraction and a complicated type of noise. 

http://milesmathis.com/ent.html

These thought constructs of a universe of increasing complexity based on nonsensical entropic acceleration of the cosmos are laughable at best when an actual investigation of the universe is undertaken.  I am aware that it is the prevalent mythology and most powerful religion of the 20th century, but Jesus didn't exist either, at least not in any form the surviving biblical texts or even non canonical gospels try to paint him as, and it is time to put these concepts to bed. 

The issue with modern science really seems to begin with the wide acceptance of Entropy as a meaningful concept.  Entropy and the failure of Newtonian thermodynamics allowed the Mathematicians to get involved, and instead of using Empirical science to test ideas and build a solid case of concepts, they created ever more complicated mathematics that found circumstantial and often unusable patterns in the noise of data recovered by the instruments and readings of empirical scientists. 

Yet Newton was incomplete and his theory of gravity was wrong, even if his equations worked.  In the last 20 years extensive experimental evidence has provided for an electrodynamic source of gravity, however, there is even more evidence that it all traces down to sympathetic vibrations and harmonic resonances.  Funny that empirical data collected from cymatics and electrical engineers and sympathetic vibratory physicists is called pseudoscience, yet the inventive ideas of thought experiments that create speculative mathematics are called real science (this is deductive logical invention via mathematics and thought experiments..... not empirical science...).

http://philpapers.org/archive/HOLTDO-13.pdf ; Here is an interesting book called the death of science that investigates these issues. 

Here is an article from 1950 on how rigid beliefs and thought training corrupt the science and create paradigms of investigation that lead nowhere, but are continually supported because of the nearly limitless power of belief to control the mind of the observer regardless of what is actually being observed.  http://www.compilerpress.ca/Competitiveness/Anno/Anno%20Polanyi%20Scientific%20Beliefs%20Ethics%201950.htm

Meet Eric Dollard, maybe the only person to ever reproduce almost all of Tesla's experiments and understand the math of Steimentz and Heaviside and the implications that the destruction of Tesla's work had on science and how it lead directly to a standard model of inventive mathematics. 


A brief primer to Plasma Physics and Plasma Cosmology


There is so much more that just doesn't get press and if it is published in peer reviewed Journals it is ignored until it eventually wins a Nobel Prize and then it is still ignored or twisted until it is made to fit into the mathematical mythology of current thinking.  It is bad.

The EM Drive that actually works and provides more thrust than any other system ever created, tested by multiple labs with the same result. 
http://www.physics-astronomy.com/2015/07/nasas-impossible-em-drive-works-german.html#.V8GTf1c7tn_

Other sources of continuing education away from the popular mythology

http://plasmauniverse.info/
http://milesmathis.com/
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/
http://svpwiki.com/SVPwiki+Home+Page ; (however, he takes the science to a more theosophical place that just doesn't sit well.)

and there are many more places to dig, many many more.


--------------------
"-" egoproctor

Edited by egoproctor (09/06/16 05:14 AM)

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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: complexity [Re: egoproctor] * 1
    #23619746 - 09/06/16 08:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Complexity increases immediately..in every instant...other than the pure knowledge of the Self..which is in sublime hidden compartments..or otherwise soul...we can acknowledge the fact that everything we do..or type..will increase the complexity..by the very basic fact that we are increasing matter..or material..in memory or in the present moment!

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Invisibleegoproctor
egoproctor
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Registered: 10/07/14
Posts: 147
Loc: Ningbo, China
Re: complexity [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #23620058 - 09/06/16 10:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Is it really becoming more complex, or is that just a local and subjective rationalization to justify our continued activity?  Isn't it also fair to say it is only a change in state, not an increase in complexity.  We don't tend to like to look at what is lost when we gauge what has been gained.  We trade trees and geological formations and other life for roads, the immense biodiversity that was destroyed to make that long stretch of dead tarmac and asphalt is not more complex than the uncountable forms of life that were destroyed in order to create the change.  Even all the traffic and work it takes to maintain the road is not more complex than all the biological traffic that took place along that same stretch of land, it is only different in structure and purpose.  that is an act of amazingly ignorant and blind hubris to believe we have increased the complexity. We have certainly accelerated change in reference to our own perception of previous rates of human created change, but we have no real concept of rates of change or styles of change in the universe.  We now know from experiments and research that the grand canyon was most likely formed during intense continent wide global electrical storms thousands of years ago in the matter of minutes.  So too was Olympus Mons on Mars, and many other geological features that had no human counterpart in their creation.  Minutes to create mountains and canyons and other massive formations.  It is only a change, not increased complexity.  And it will change again. 

Every new memory fades another, even erases them, then the body dies and the mind ceases to interact with the world it sees as so complex.  The net increase or decrease in complexity becomes irrelevant the longer the time scale becomes, because even galaxies are transient electromagnetic phenomena in a boundless universe of electromagnetic phenomena.  Water becomes ice becomes vapor becomes water again in any order conceivable, even becoming a plasma if conditions are right.  It is just different, not more complex, unless we are thinking purely subjectively and selfishly.  It is all transient and it will all pass and something different will take its place, and the complexity will not have changed, only the perceived structure and function.


--------------------
"-" egoproctor

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