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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21488158 - 04/01/15 02:51 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
The unemployment rate is a useless statistic that is the least representative of who works and who doesn't.

And yes, I would rather have 3 guys sucking the government dry instead of 5. The 2 full time guys have there benefits from the company, not the government.



If you want to stop people from sucking the government dry stop giving them welfare.  No tit to run dry



Welfare is fine just take away there ability to vote while on it. That way they can't further entrench themselves with handouts.


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Invisibleabltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut
Female User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
Loc: Dildoville Flag
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21488159 - 04/01/15 02:52 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No company should be legally obligated to do anything except cut a check for the work produced.




What about ensuring a reasonably safe work environment or eliminating discrimination?

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #21488161 - 04/01/15 02:52 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
The unemployment rate is a useless statistic that is the least representative of who works and who doesn't.

And yes, I would rather have 3 guys sucking the government dry instead of 5. The 2 full time guys have there benefits from the company, not the government.



If you want to stop people from sucking the government dry stop giving them welfare.  No tit to run dry



Welfare is fine just take away there ability to vote while on it. That way they can't further entrench themselves with handouts.



It is not fine


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 days, 2 hours
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: Enlil]
    #21488169 - 04/01/15 02:54 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

qman said:

Many fortune 500 companies and others now use "temporary workers" from employment agencies to meet their staffing needs.

The companies just pay the agency, the workers are full time and get no benefits of any kind, it's also very easy to fire them when using the agency.




To me, that's disresctful and borderline abusive.

If you want to abuse your employees, go to Africa.



It's good business.  It's good for the company and good for the worker.  The worker gets to try out the company without having to risk a black mark on his/her resume, and the company gets to try out the worker without having to risk paying unemployment if it doesn't work out.

Temps are hired permanently when they excel. It costs less in the long run to hire someone, but temp jobs allow them to try a worker out before making the commitment.

My wife got all of her best jobs by proving herself as a temp first, and she knew she could bargain for a good salary because the temp agency was charging the company about three times what she was getting paid.  That's why she's making $130k a year as a secretary.

Good employees just need an opportunity to prove themselves.  Poor employees are the only ones who benefit from an upfront commitment.






"Temps are hired permanently when they excel"

I know many people that have worked as "temps" at the same Fortune 200 company for over 4-5 years, excelling doesn't always make a difference today, the labor market is full of qualified workers willing to take temp jobs.

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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21488173 - 04/01/15 02:54 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
The unemployment rate is a useless statistic that is the least representative of who works and who doesn't.

And yes, I would rather have 3 guys sucking the government dry instead of 5. The 2 full time guys have there benefits from the company, not the government.



If you want to stop people from sucking the government dry stop giving them welfare.  No tit to run dry



Welfare is fine just take away there ability to vote while on it. That way they can't further entrench themselves with handouts.



It is not fine



Well I mean stuff like food stamps is ok however if they are allowed to vote while receiving government aid I believe it is a conflict of interest.


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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,849
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 1 hour, 31 minutes
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21488175 - 04/01/15 02:55 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Welfare is what keeps the peace. They don't want to participate in this capitalism scheme and yet they are forced too. Give them enough to survive capitalism and they won't revolt and commit crime and shit.

It's a good deal


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: abltsandwich]
    #21488185 - 04/01/15 02:57 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

abltsandwich said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No company should be legally obligated to do anything except cut a check for the work produced.




What about ensuring a reasonably safe work environment or eliminating discrimination?




If I am negligent you can sue me.  If I am not negligent I have already paid huge money into workers' compensation.  For carpenters in my business it is about 15% of gross payroll.  Discrimination?  I sure as shit discriminate and will continue to do so.  If you suck, you're gone.  If you don't show up, you're gone.  If you are a danger, you're gone.  If you are a fucking asshole who can't get along with the other workers, you're gone.  Piss up a rope if you don't like it.

Make me money or fuck off.  This is not a social services agency.


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth
Male

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 11,904
Loc: All Good in Allgood
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: abltsandwich]
    #21488189 - 04/01/15 02:57 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

abltsandwich said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No company should be legally obligated to do anything except cut a check for the work produced.




What about ensuring a reasonably safe work environment or eliminating discrimination?




If you don't feel safe or you feel discriminated against, you can choose to not work there.


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[quote]Sheekle said:
[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: Patlal]
    #21488195 - 04/01/15 02:59 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Welfare is what keeps the peace. They don't want to participate in this capitalism scheme and yet they are forced too. Give them enough to survive capitalism and they won't revolt and commit crime and shit.

It's a good deal





OK, Neville.  Welfare keeps the peace?  I'd rather invest in truncheons.

Nobody is forced to participate in capitalism.  Everybody is forced to participate in socialism.


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InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #21488200 - 04/01/15 03:01 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

>Welfare is fine just take away there ability to vote while on it. That way they can't further entrench themselves with handouts.

That is a very good idea. We can't let people starve in the streets, no matter what zap thinks, so give them the food stamps. But, we do not want to create a voting block of moochers, which we actually do have right now because they will keep voting for more and bigger handouts. Read my sig.

Take the govt handout and your vote is suspended until you get off it. Of course the present goofball admin wants undocumented aliens to vote and says requiring id is "racist" But many here probably believe all that crap


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,416
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: abltsandwich]
    #21488225 - 04/01/15 03:08 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

abltsandwich said:
I think more government involvement in business is bad as a general concept.




that's a bit too broad for me, although i would agree that both are so intertwined now that there is virtually no distinction between the public and private sectors in many fields. but unlike corporations, government can be changed with enough popular pressure. government, at least in theory, is the only thing standing between the masses and total corporate domination. it's up to us how far we allow things to go.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: millzy]
    #21488284 - 04/01/15 03:25 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I'll tell you what happens when govt finally assumes total power over business and the economy, you get Stalinist Russia and commie cuba or n, korea. Anyone want to live there? The sheep think they want it until they find out what its like then its too late.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblejewunit
Brutal!
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Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio Flag
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: Patlal]
    #21488288 - 04/01/15 03:26 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

What about places that don't want to/can't hire full time employees for other reasons. Lots of restaurants, for example, are full of people who only want to work part time. You're essentially forcing employees to work 30 hours even if they don't want to.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: jewunit]
    #21488295 - 04/01/15 03:28 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
What about places that don't want to/can't hire full time employees for other reasons. Lots of restaurants, for example, are full of people who only want to work part time. You're essentially forcing employees to work 30 hours even if they don't want to.



Whatever deal they agree to is their business.  Not Patlal's


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,416
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: jewunit]
    #21488304 - 04/01/15 03:30 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

setting standards on how you treat your employees is a far cry from a totalitarian communist state. if there are any sheep in this conversation it's those who can't see that distinction.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: millzy]
    #21488309 - 04/01/15 03:32 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
setting standards on how you treat your employees is a far cry from a totalitarian communist state. if there are any sheep in this conversation it's those who can't see that distinction.



As I said earlier attempting to coerce business to follow what you think is good is pointless. The more regulations appear the less efficient business is and the poorer the common folk become.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: millzy]
    #21488315 - 04/01/15 03:34 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

What standards are you pining for?  Here are my standard employee treatments.  You work.  I pay you.  If I don't think you are producing enough I cut your pay or fire you.  If you are doing well I give you a raise.  If I think you are capable I teach you extra even though I know that means you will leave me at some point.

My job sites are very safe.  I fire idiots who are dangers to themselves and others rather quickly.


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Invisiblejewunit
Brutal!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio Flag
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: millzy]
    #21488320 - 04/01/15 03:34 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't say anything about a totalitarianism communist state. If both of my employers were forced to have me on 30 hours a week that would put me at 60 hours a week without a day off. No thank you. So my other option would be to quit one job and work 30 hours a week. Also not interested. I'll take no benefits and 50 hours over 5 days over the other two options.


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InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: millzy]
    #21488321 - 04/01/15 03:34 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

>setting standards on how you treat your employees is a far cry from a totalitarian communist state.

Depends. Laws about workplace safety are reasonable, laws about not beating employees are reasonable, laws about time and a half for overtime are reasonable. Laws forcing employers to make everyone full time are idiotic, don't let obumble hear about it because he will want it done.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Should there be a law preventing this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21488327 - 04/01/15 03:36 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

One of the reasons why I can't this leftist nonsense that is peddled is due to the fact that it protects the incompetent and cripples the great. All men are not created equal some are naturally superior and they should be allowed to reach there full potential.


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