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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Humanity truly a sentient species?
    #2148056 - 11/30/03 11:59 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

well, to start this off, a definition.
sen?tient
Pronunciation: 'sen(t)-sh(E-)&nt, 'sen-tE-&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive, feel
Date: 1632
1 : responsive to or conscious of sense impressions
2 : AWARE
3 : finely sensitive in perception or feeling


Now..application. In my opinion, a sentient species is one that is aware and capable of understanding itself as a whole, itself as an individual, and its place in the world. ON an individual level, a truly sentient person would be able to understand and affect his thought processes, ranging from high order, complex concious thought, to the subconcious/instinctual impulses. not to say that the individual would necessarily have complete and ironfisted control over itself, but capable of defusing and directing energies in a beneficial manner.
As a whole...thats alot harder. Is awareness of species as a whole necessarily indicative of telepathy, or some community conciousness? OR is it merely the understanding and ability to see the web of effects that one person has upon another, and the ripples that proceed? Is it the understanding that survival as a species relies on each and every individual? I'm not sure.
As to awareness of our place in the world... i believe that it is an ingrained attribute of a species, taking form thru instinctual urges...every species knows it's place, concious or not.

Humanity, i observe, does not live up to this by no means rigorous definition of sentience. ON an individual level, we are driven back and forth, tossed by tidal waves of our newly born awareness..and very very few individuals seem to know what is driving them, and how to channel it.
As to species sentience...no way in hell. We murder, maim and destroy ourselves and others for advantages that in no way recompse the destruction...we fight like animals, but our claws have given way to technology.
And finally, we have no real conception as a species of our place in the world...the emergence of conciousness in humanity has failed to evoke the sheperding urge that is necessary for us to understand and coexist with our world and fellow life. We destroy all, with no thought to its value or necessity.

Something i've been thinking on a while...comments?
Stay Frosty.
R.C.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Humanity truly a sentient species? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2148090 - 12/01/03 12:22 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

mmmm, I disagree.

"emergence of conciousness in humanity has failed to evoke the sheperding urge that is necessary for us to understand and coexist with our world and fellow life. We destroy all, with no thought to its value or necessity."

Actually, I think that sheparding urge is called "globalization" and it is an attempt to "shepard" all of humanity towards capitalist, liberal democracy. The shepards believe that this type of society will supply the most happiness and freedom. What do you mean that "we" destroy "all" I dont catch your drift.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Humanity truly a sentient species? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2148122 - 12/01/03 12:37 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You provide a definition for "sentient", then argue humans are not sentient because you believe they don't meet the terms of your own idiosyncratic, expanded, and much more complex definition.

Foul play.

pinky


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InvisibleJellric
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Registered: 11/08/98
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Re: Humanity truly a sentient species? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2148155 - 12/01/03 01:00 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Is awareness of species as a whole necessarily indicative of telepathy, or some community conciousness??

Telepathy, no.
  OR is it merely the understanding and ability to see the web of effects that one person has upon another, and the ripples that proceed

In my opinion, yes. Perceiving the web can be a function of intellect, or the heart. If you first see it through your mind it will automatically lead to feeling it from your heart. (I hope this makes sense). Once you have that kind of knowledge, you can't help but feel for humanity and want to do what you can for us all with whatever gifts you have been given.

Good post. :smile:





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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Humanity truly a sentient species? [Re: Positronius]
    #2149074 - 12/01/03 12:27 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Humanities destructive past (and present, for the most part) is pretty clear...we came to the new world, and wrecked quite a bit of it...we found south america, and proceeded to hack it down (still doing so)...i understand that in the past we lacked the knowledge we do now, but it still irks me to see entire ecosystems upset and damaged thru greed.
Hell, industry is slowly but surely poisoning our water, atmosphere, and earth..hopefully we'll stop.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Humanity truly a sentient species? [Re: Phred]
    #2149085 - 12/01/03 12:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You do have a valid point...i do have an idiosyncratic, expanded, and more complex definition...but let me ask you this. Do you really think humanity as a whole is aware?


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Humanity truly a sentient species? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2149320 - 12/01/03 02:11 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

your statement has no weight.

"we"???? destroyed the new world?

"we"??? found south america?

ecosystems get destroyed everday for a plethora of reasons, they come and they go, thats life, ecosystems are impermanent.

Humanities destructive past>? what about the destructive nature of the universe and the destructive nature of other species, why do they get off so easy?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Humanity truly a sentient species? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2150019 - 12/01/03 07:00 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Randolph Carter writes:

Do you really think humanity as a whole is aware?

By the commonly-accepted definition of the word "aware"; yes, unquestionably. That is self-evident.

By some idiosyncratic, expanded, and more mystically-oriented connotation... I refuse to answer until the term "aware" is decided upon.

pinky


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Humanity truly a sentient species? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2150476 - 12/01/03 09:27 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Randolph Carter said:
well, to start this off, a definition.
sen?tient
Pronunciation: 'sen(t)-sh(E-)&nt, 'sen-tE-&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive, feel
Date: 1632
1 : responsive to or conscious of sense impressions
2 : AWARE
3 : finely sensitive in perception or feeling


Now..application. In my opinion, a sentient species is one that is aware and capable of understanding itself as a whole, itself as an individual, and its place in the world. ON an individual level, a truly sentient person would be able to understand and affect his thought processes, ranging from high order, complex concious thought, to the subconcious/instinctual impulses. not to say that the individual would necessarily have complete and ironfisted control over itself, but capable of defusing and directing energies in a beneficial manner.





I didn't copy the stuff to which I have no comment. However, I think, as a species, we are capable of being sentient, as defined by you in your first paragraph, but I think most people are not. If we were naturally given to sentience, the planet wouldn't be in the shape that it is in, now. We wouldn't need attorneys. I think mostly we are narcissistic.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Humanity truly a sentient species? [Re: Positronius]
    #2151631 - 12/02/03 01:05 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

"with great power, comes great responsibility"
We have tons of new technology...i believe that it is our duty to investigate the impact this technology will have on an environment beore we use it. Also, the damage we've done to this planet is something that no other species has replicated, and is pretty much only going to occur on a similiar scale in a worldwide catastrophe...
(i.e. that volcano off the french coast letting half of itself slide into the sea...Yellowstone blowing up...California falling off...extinction level impact by an object from out-atmosphere....or nuclear winter)
Also, as far as i can see, any species that has caused rampant destruction has been introduced into its environment, or had the controls that were present diminished because of human intervention.
In michigan's case, i seriously doubt that the emerald ash borer managed to wing its way here on its own. There are no ash trees in 5 counties in southwest Michigan due to this introduction, and if it does break quarantine, there is a good chance that there will be no more ash trees in the temperate U.S.
As far as the universe....it cannot change it's actions, nor is it aware. We can, which makes our destructive tendencies and past all that more idiotic.
Stay Frosty.
R.C.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 29,281
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Re: Humanity truly a sentient species? [Re: Phred]
    #2151640 - 12/02/03 01:11 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

ok...
aware
Pronunciation: &-'war, -'wer
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English iwar, from Old English gew?r, from ge- (associative prefix) + w?r wary -- more at CO-, WARY
Date: before 12th century
1 archaic : WATCHFUL, WARY
2 : having or showing realization, perception, or knowledge
- aware?ness noun

My post and expanded definition is based much more upon the 2nd entry.
I dont believe that humanity as a whole has shown actions that prove that it has realized what it is doing, or knowledge that it can change it, and should.
Also, in the individual case, most people lack all three properties of the second definition when regarding themselves, and show minimal amounts of it when dealing with the world around them. By this is how my definition was formed, and hence then arguement.
ANy changes you would care to make? If agreement is necessary, than by all means explain your ideal..so we can comprimise on the defintion and go from there.
Stay Frosty
R.C.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Humanity truly a sentient species? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2151882 - 12/02/03 03:13 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If that is the definition you choose to go with, then I stand by my first answer -- yes, humans are aware. Unquestionably.

pinky


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