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WhyDidiDoThis
Bay Area Mushroom Collector


Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 3,338
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21464404 - 03/27/15 07:32 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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From what I further gather is there is an element call gycol ethers. As they linger in air quite often from mulitple sources. In delvoping lung tissue (adolescents) can induce irration and cause ashma Nd other like breathing problems. Gycol ethers are a by-product of the 99% safe (I got no problem with it) propylene gycol PG.
So continued use without break throughout the day, one can notice slight irritation. It is nit from the mist or nicotine but the trace (reportedly) elements of gycol ethers.
in japan I believe they are gmo'ing tabacco to grow without the chemical nicotine. Decaf cigarettes? Oral fixation addiction I guess is higher than chemical addiction based on generation groups??? That wasnt in the Japanese study, ill have to dig up where I read that one.
Edited by WhyDidiDoThis (03/27/15 07:34 AM)
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: WhyDidiDoThis]
#21464436 - 03/27/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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A Taoist story tells of an old man who accidentally fell into the river rapids leading to a high and dangerous waterfall. Onlookers feared for his life. Miraculously, he came out alive and unharmed downstream at the bottom of the falls. People asked him how he managed to survive. "I accommodated myself to the water, not the water to me. Without thinking, I allowed myself to be shaped by it. Plunging into the swirl, I came out with the swirl. This is how I survived."
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: WhyDidiDoThis]
#21464445 - 03/27/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Good thing my juice is almost pure vegetable glycerin
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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RocKerWasH
The Wanderer



Registered: 05/13/13
Posts: 198
Loc: Mile High land of Kai's
Last seen: 5 months, 21 days
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: OhMrJohnson]
#21464552 - 03/27/15 08:28 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anyone who's thinking of switching to ecigs, don't buy some cheap ass cape pen. Just buy a nice one right away because you'll eventually work your way up to a nice one. Like the "Lotus Jellyfish " with an "Aspire Atlantis" tank. Absolutely an amazing vape. I wasted so much money buying cheap e cigs, it's much better to go spend $200 on one set up that will last, instead of spending $500 on a bunch of cheap e cig batteries and tanks. Or try an "MVP" with an "Aspire Nautilus " tank.
-------------------- Laughing all alone in the dark!
Edited by RocKerWasH (03/27/15 09:50 AM)
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Almond Flour
...get off my lawn!



Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#21465028 - 03/27/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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I tried e cigs for a few weeks. Interesting stuff but prefer swedish snus. E cigs messed with my throat and while fun to inhail all the time...they still had me craving an unfiltered American spirit freshly rolled. Plus the nicotine felt weird without any of the other good stuff in actual tobbacco leaves.
Plus I can seriously snus anytime, anywhere, without anyone being the wiser.
-------------------- Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church"
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Almond Flour]
#21465836 - 03/27/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you got throat irritation, it's likely the juice you were using was too high in propylene glycol content. Some people have a high sensitivity to PG. I vape 100% VG or 80%VG/20%PG. Also you can get WTA (whole tobacco alkaloid) ejuice if you are missing some of the 'umph' from cigarettes, without all the harmful effects of smoking. Snus is really bad for you.
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Herbologist
Grrratata



Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 7,471
Loc: Casa Bonita
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21465873 - 03/27/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: If you got throat irritation, it's likely the juice you were using was too high in propylene glycol content. Some people have a high sensitivity to PG. I vape 100% VG or 80%VG/20%PG. Also you can get WTA (whole tobacco alkaloid) ejuice if you are missing some of the 'umph' from cigarettes, without all the harmful effects of smoking. Snus is really bad for you.
Interesting. I have a pen that i vape out of but its not any e-cig juice its BHO wax thats mixed with a little PG. I also have an ulcer in my throat. Could the PG keep it from healing because of irritation?
-------------------- Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends!
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Herbologist]
#21465890 - 03/27/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Not really. PG is actually a very powerful antibacterial and antimicrobial when vaporized ( http://www.news-medical.net/news/20091104/Propylene-glycol-in-e-cigarettes-might-keep-us-healthy-says-researchers.aspx ), i.e - it's actually good for you. If anything, it should help your ulcer. But some people are highly sensitive to high levels of PG, and in those cases it can cause minor throat irritation or lung or eye irritation. That's about as bad as it gets, and you might need to drink more water.
In fact, many hospitals around the world have been pumping propylene glycol through their air circulation systems for over 70 years because of its effectiveness as an airborne gemicide and sanitizer. As well as in airplanes.
More info - http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+174
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Herbologist
Grrratata



Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 7,471
Loc: Casa Bonita
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21466211 - 03/27/15 04:13 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Not really. PG is actually a very powerful antibacterial and antimicrobial when vaporized ( http://www.news-medical.net/news/20091104/Propylene-glycol-in-e-cigarettes-might-keep-us-healthy-says-researchers.aspx ), i.e - it's actually good for you. If anything, it should help your ulcer. But some people are highly sensitive to high levels of PG, and in those cases it can cause minor throat irritation or lung or eye irritation. That's about as bad as it gets, and you might need to drink more water.
In fact, many hospitals around the world have been pumping propylene glycol through their air circulation systems for over 70 years because of its effectiveness as an airborne gemicide and sanitizer. As well as in airplanes.
More info - http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+174
Thats awesome, never knew that.
Now I can continue to hit this pen and not worry as much 
Edit - Actually, what if its Polyethylene glycol?
-------------------- Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends!
Edited by Herbologist (03/27/15 04:35 PM)
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Herbologist]
#21466479 - 03/27/15 04:50 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Then that could be bad. Although the amount of PEG is very miniscule.. large amounts could be potentially dangerous. It's probably not though.. the standard is Propylene Glycol for something like that. But I have heard of one manufacturer of BHO oil using PEG.. it's not O-pen is it?
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Adolin




Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,292
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21466512 - 03/27/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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i used to have an ecid taht used PG cartiges. after like 2 weeks my lungs were pretty fucked up. always feeling itchy inside and clogged. it went away a few days after i switched back to cigs.
i have a bigger vape now that uses VG but i still prefer cigarettes. nicotine ejuice is so harsh and ive tried a bunch
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Adolin]
#21466589 - 03/27/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's such a blanket statement.. there are so many different variables when it comes to ejuice. The higher nicotine content, the "harsher" the juice is. The higher the PG content, the more "throat hit" feeling you get. A pure VG juice has basically zero throat hit at all. Also some flavorings can cause a harshness. If it was too harsh for you either your nic level was way too high or too much PG or bad flavorings a combination of all three. Or it could also have something to do with the device being used. I've tried hundreds of different kinds of juice and I make my own, I have a pretty good idea of what works. And some people have different preferences. Some people like high VG juice, but you pretty much need a dripper for that.
Also I do not recommend any ecig device that uses 'cartridges'. A lot of that shit comes from China, or is made by big tobacco.. and it's trash. Never get ejuice from china, or any of those disposable gas station shit ecigs.
If anyone tries vaping ecigs and it "just doesn't do it for them" and they go back to cigarettes.. I pretty much guarantee it's either they were using a shitty device, or vaping shitty ejuice, or both. If you start out with good quality ejuice and a good device, you won't need cigarettes. They also have WTA (whole tobacco alkaloid) ejuice that contains all the alkaloids from tobacco for people who feel they are "missing something" from ejuice with just nicotine. IRL, I've turned on about 25 people to vaping and they all quit cigarettes using that and haven't gone back, 100% success rate.
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Adolin




Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,292
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21466625 - 03/27/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: That's such a blanket statement.. there are so many different variables when it comes to ejuice. The higher nicotine content, the "harsher" the juice is. The higher the PG content, the more "throat hit" feeling you get. A pure VG juice has basically zero throat hit at all. Also some flavorings can cause a harshness. If it was too harsh for you either your nic level was way too high or too much PG or bad flavorings a combination of all three. Or it could also have something to do with the device being used.
Also I do not recommend any ecig device that uses 'cartridges'. A lot of that shit comes from China, or is made by big tobacco.. and it's trash. Never get ejuice from china, or any of those disposable gas station shit ecigs.
If anyone tries vaping ecigs and it "just doesn't do it for them" and they go back to cigarettes.. I pretty much guarantee it's either they were using a shitty device, or vaping shitty ejuice, or both. If you start out with good quality ejuice and a good device, you won't need cigarettes. They also have WTA (whole tobacco alkaloid) ejuice that contains all the alkaloids from tobacco for people who feel they are "missing something" from ejuice with just nicotine. IRL, I've turned on about 25 people to vaping and they all quit cigarettes using that and haven't gone back, 100% success rate.
your forgetting that some people just like tobacco more than pure nicotine
i didnt buy my vapes with the intention of totally quitting, having a cigarette is just so much more enjoyable to me personally
i dont think my device is shitty, its an itaste mvp battery, with a kanger aerotank. i use virgin vapor 1.8% nic ejuice
i just like smoking too much i use my vape every few days maybe, but i like having it around anyways if i ever do decide to quit
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Adolin]
#21466633 - 03/27/15 05:14 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's why I mentioned WTA ejuice. It contains all the alkaloids from the tobacco plant. The only thing you are missing is all the tar, carbon monoxide, benzene, arsenic, formaldahyde, etc... all the carcinogens they add to cigarettes or are produced in combustion. But if that's what you like whatever floats your boat. But you might want to give that a try sometime if you feel you are missing something from your juice. Or try different juices. People have many different preferences and there's something for everyone.
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WhyDidiDoThis
Bay Area Mushroom Collector


Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 3,338
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21466688 - 03/27/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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http://www.slate.com/content/slate/blogs/humannature/2009/01/30/tobacco_without_nicotine.html
and thats how I felt. I was just too addicted to the aspect of the cigarette. Not just the nicotine but the fullness of the smoke compared to the vapor, feeling the filter hang out my lips. I Am addicted.
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Herbologist
Grrratata



Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 7,471
Loc: Casa Bonita
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21466689 - 03/27/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Then that could be bad. Although the amount of PEG is very miniscule.. large amounts could be potentially dangerous. It's probably not though.. the standard is Propylene Glycol for something like that. But I have heard of one manufacturer of BHO oil using PEG.. it's not O-pen is it?
Yes, some of them are o-pen that I have been using. The other is Timeless Vape which Idk if it does or does not have PG or PEG but im assuming it does... Actually here is a quote from a dispenary about Timeless vape cartridges "Timeless oil contains no harmful Poly-propelene Glycol, no irritating Vegetable oil, only natural pure citrus terpene as a cutting agent."
-------------------- Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends!
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Herbologist]
#21467419 - 03/27/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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I found this - http://www.openvape.com/whats-inside/ Which states they do use Polyethylene Glycol, but it's the pharmaceutical grade PEG-400 which is a whole different beast than the industrial grade PEG used in other applications. The pharmaceutical grade is used in a wide variety of applications for inhalation including child inhalers and is generally regarded as safe by the FDA, so I don't think you have too much to worry about. PEG can be dangerous if you DRINK it, in large enough quantities.. but vaporized in small amounts there's not really much to worry about.
Also see this - http://starcityplaza.com/o-pen-vape-danger-polyethylene-glycol/
That being said, it would still be better if they used Propylene Glycol instead, as it serves the same exact purpose and has actual health benefits due to its germicidal properties.
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