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Shamanic Scientist
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Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC
#21460255 - 03/26/15 11:13 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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So, I've been attempting to cultivate in my (tiny amount) of spare time. In general, I have been using standard rye techniques. What I have consistently observed so far is that, after I PC my jars, there is visible moisture/condensation on the inside of the jars. I do not see a pool of water at the bottom of my jars, but typically condensation evenly on the outside.
First I will outline the procedure I used for my current batch, and then explain what I did after the first PC.
I first rinsed organic rye berries and then soaked them for ~5.5 hours in a 50:50 solution of warm tap water and coffee. For my coffee, I simply made a pot using the grounds that I had used earlier that day to make my personal coffee for consumption, i.e. my rye berries were in "dilute" coffee and water, plus ~1/2 teaspoon of gypsum (I had two cups of rye berries).
After my admittedly short 5.5 hour soak, I brought the pot to a fairly slow simmer and then a boil. The berries boiled for ~9-10 minutes, and then I strained and steam dried. After this, I let them sit in an empty pot that I placed the colander in overnight in a cool room with paper towel placed on top of (but not touching) the berries. I found only a single burst kernel.
The next day (today), I loaded my rye berries (which were dry to the touch) into my jar and PC'd for ~70 minutes. After this, I again observed condensation evenly distributed throughout my jars. Next, I took the contents of each jar one at a time, and poured them into a glass dish lined with paper towel in order to soak up some excess moisture. After this, I added ~1/2 cup vermiculite before re-loading the jars. I have read that this has been a successful strategy for people in the past.
So, I am currently waiting for a second PC round to finish. Does anyone have any thoughts about the best way to proceed? I have had virtually no contamination issues with over a dozen jars over the past few weeks, but I have seen mostly no growth, or very small patches of mycelium that appear well over a week later and stall.
I can provide pictures of my jars when they finish their current PC if needed.
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Shamanic Scientist] 1
#21460281 - 03/26/15 11:18 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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The moisture is normal. As long as it's not pooling you're fine.
I would soak longer than 5.5 hours; more like 12-24.
PC for 90 minutes at 15psi, not 70 minutes.
No need to add vermiculite to grain jars.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
#21460315 - 03/26/15 11:26 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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moisture is common in the first couple days after a pc cylcle
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Shamanic Scientist
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: cronicr]
#21460329 - 03/26/15 11:29 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Alright, thanks guys. I have been worried about this for two reasons. First, the RR rye tek seems to emphasize no visible moisture in the jars post-PC; second, I have not seen strong growth yet despite lack of contamination. One explanation is poor genetics I suppose. The jars I am currently working on will be inoculated with fresh spore syringes that I just bought.
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Shamanic Scientist]
#21460342 - 03/26/15 11:32 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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For better chances, get into agar work. It's a great way to get away from unreliable spore syringes and into a more reliable method.
Check out Pasty's agar tek http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976#19208976
SBJ's Rye Prep http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20048765#20048765
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
#21460392 - 03/26/15 11:49 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you planned on doing g2g, I like to have a little extra moisture in my jars.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Buck513]
#21460413 - 03/26/15 11:55 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Shamanic Scientist
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
#21460427 - 03/26/15 12:01 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the advice. I am hoping to start doing g2g once I get good colonization, because I ultimately want to get a perpetual grow going. I think I may start to dabble with agar work. I have a reliable method for getting good mycelial growth in LC, and started a new jar today. Would taking multiple samples from a large LC be a good way to screen for good strains using agar? As a related question, should I expect there to be a very large diversity of strains growing in a large LC that was inoculated with a spore syringe?
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Shamanic Scientist]
#21460598 - 03/26/15 12:48 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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You can drop spores, LC, tissue, etc...onto agar. There are still a significant amount of genetics in an LC made from spores.
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Shamanic Scientist
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
#21460699 - 03/26/15 01:20 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here are pics have one of my jars after the 90 minute PC that finished earlier. This seems like excessive moisture to me, which is puzzling since my soak was 5.5 hours or so, and I removed some moisture after my first PC.
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Shamanic Scientist
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Registered: 01/14/15
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Shamanic Scientist]
#21535148 - 04/11/15 10:05 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Took about two weeks before I noticed growth, but it's been four days since I first saw mycelia and both jars seem to be growing at a decent rate now. I attached a shitty picture.
Edited by Shamanic Scientist (04/11/15 10:07 PM)
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Organic_Magic
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Shamanic Scientist]
#21535204 - 04/11/15 10:18 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Looks weird because you added verm. If there is a little bit of moisture in the jars after pc cycle just shake to distribute it. The grain should absorb any leftover water over the next couple days.
--------------------
Its all fun and games until mushrooms make you gay
click and learn. Bod's simplified cultivation methods Got side pins?
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Organic_Magic
Medicine Man



Registered: 10/26/14
Posts: 1,712
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Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Organic_Magic]
#21535207 - 04/11/15 10:18 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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That colonization looks good though.
--------------------
Its all fun and games until mushrooms make you gay
click and learn. Bod's simplified cultivation methods Got side pins?
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Shamanic Scientist
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Registered: 01/14/15
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Organic_Magic]
#21537151 - 04/12/15 12:33 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, it does look a little weird. Both jars that I added verm to and re-PC'd out of paranoia have good growth now, though. I was also 3/3 for the next set of jars I inoculated using a standard rye tek, so I will hopefully be asking for feedback once I am ready to move things forward after full colonization.
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Shamanic Scientist
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Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 90
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Shamanic Scientist]
#21550019 - 04/15/15 07:16 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey guys,
I just want to get opinions on a couple of jars. Attached are four pictures. The first two are from the batch I mixed with verm as previously described. The second two are from a newer batch on straight rye. The second two have clear, unambiguous mycorrhizal growth, as you will see. The first two in the jars mixed with verm are further along, but growing a bit more slowly I think (they were inoculated a week before the the other two). Notice that for these jars, there is growth, but it doesn't look as brilliant-white as the two on plain rye. I am wondering if people think this is contamination or falls within normal mycelial variability. I thought perhaps the color/morphology might be different due to the mixture of rye + verm in those jars. By eye, I'd say they are off white, and have a more "diffuse" morphology as opposed to the brilliant white and stereotypic mycorrhizal growth of the other jars. I would also say that they look a little better in person than they do in the picture.
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Shamanic Scientist
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Registered: 01/14/15
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Shamanic Scientist]
#21550020 - 04/15/15 07:17 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Picture #2 (verm + rye)
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Shamanic Scientist
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Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Shamanic Scientist]
#21550023 - 04/15/15 07:17 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Picture #3 (rye, separate inoculation).
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Shamanic Scientist
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Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Shamanic Scientist]
#21550024 - 04/15/15 07:18 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Picture #4
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: Shamanic Scientist]
#21550028 - 04/15/15 07:19 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Upload your pics here most of us won't download a PDF to view a picture.
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Shamanic Scientist
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Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 90
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Question about excess (i.e. visible) moisture in rye jars after PC [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
#21550073 - 04/15/15 07:45 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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