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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



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E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung
#21460140 - 03/26/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0116732
Quote:
Abstract
Oxidative stress and inflammatory response are the key events in the pathogenesis of chronic airway diseases. The consumption of electronic cigarettes (e-cigs) with a variety of e-liquids/e-juices is alarmingly increasing without the unrealized potential harmful health effects. We hypothesized that electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS)/e-cigs pose health concerns due to oxidative toxicity and inflammatory response in lung cells exposed to their aerosols. The aerosols produced by vaporizing ENDS e-liquids exhibit oxidant reactivity suggesting oxidants or reactive oxygen species (OX/ROS) may be inhaled directly into the lung during a “vaping” session. These OX/ROS are generated through activation of the heating element which is affected by heating element status (new versus used), and occurs during the process of e-liquid vaporization. Unvaporized e-liquids were oxidative in a manner dependent on flavor additives, while flavors containing sweet or fruit flavors were stronger oxidizers than tobacco flavors. In light of OX/ROS generated in ENDS e-liquids and aerosols, the effects of ENDS aerosols on tissues and cells of the lung were measured. Exposure of human airway epithelial cells (H292) in an air-liquid interface to ENDS aerosols from a popular device resulted in increased secretion of inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-6 and IL-8. Furthermore, human lung fibroblasts exhibited stress and morphological change in response to treatment with ENDS/e-liquids. These cells also secrete increased IL-8 in response to a cinnamon flavored e-liquid and are susceptible to loss of cell viability by ENDS e-liquids. Finally, exposure of wild type C57BL/6J mice to aerosols produced from a popular e-cig increase pro-inflammatory cytokines and diminished lung glutathione levels which are critical in maintaining cellular redox balance. Thus, exposure to e-cig aerosols/juices incurs measurable oxidative and inflammatory responses in lung cells and tissues that could lead to unrealized health consequences.
Just when I was thinking about switching back....
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: morrowasted]
#21460419 - 03/26/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Excuse my ignorance, but could you possibly put this into layman's terms?
I've been smoking cigarettes for around 12 years now and was planning on going to the Vapor-Fi store by my place today to buy a vape pen. I've tried the disposables several times, but wasn't a fan of them.
I thought that the only ingredients in e-juice besides nicotine/flavoring were propylene glycol, glycerin, and/or polyethylene glycol which AFAIK doesn't cause any health issues.
I'm having trouble understanding how vaping these ingredients causes oxidative and inflammatory responses in the lungs. Are these organ responses more dangerous than smoking a traditional cigarette?
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21460422 - 03/26/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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TBH I don't know exactly what it means myself, I was hoping BadChad or someone could enlighten us. I think it basically means that they are bad for you in a slightly different way but maybe not as bad.
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Shroomslip
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: morrowasted]
#21460451 - 03/26/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Most people who turn to vaping to quit cigarettes do so because they can't seem to kick the cigs any other way. And there are a lot of positive trade offs on ecigs over regular cigs. I really doubt that ecigs are any worse for you and they have the benefit of not making you stink, giving you back your ability to not get out of breath after 5 minutes, giving you back your sense of smell, not costing as much and probably quite a few others I'm just not thinking of off the top of my head.
Also I wouldn't be surprised to find out the big tobacco companies were paying people off to make ecigs seem just as bad or worse than regular cigs. The big companies are starting to produce their own ecigs, but they're all disposable and all disposables suck. They've no doubt realized by now that this has the potential to cost them billions of dollars every year.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
Edited by Shroomslip (03/26/15 12:06 PM)
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomslip]
#21460488 - 03/26/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yea, I wouldn't be surprised at all if big tobacco was fabricating information to turn people away from vaping. E-Cigs seem to be the future of the industry, and they are without a doubt losing customers at an exponential rate due to the somewhat unregulated e-cig industry.
Anyways, this is the vape pen I'm planning on buying today: http://www.vaporfi.com/electronic-cigarettes/vaporfi-pro-starter-kit.html
Any thoughts on it? Maybe suggestions for one that's better in the same price range? Thanks.
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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rooster149
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomslip]
#21460499 - 03/26/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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To my understanding, the research basically showed that internal exposure to aerosolized e-liquid caused tissue inflammation with the intensity of said inflammation being based on the flavor and that select products led to cell death. Would the cells be able to absorb the particles if oxygen wasn't as high a factor in the aerosol concentrations? This is cool stuff!
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: morrowasted]
#21460516 - 03/26/15 12:26 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm not a toxicologist, but the paper appears to document some basic, fairly non-specific inflammatory markers that are indicative of stress and/or toxic effects. They did some studies exposing cultured lung cells and live mice to the e-juice by itself and vaporized e-juice.
From my limited knowledge the questions I would have are the translatabilty to humans. Seems to me the human lung can withstand some basic amount of toxicological exposure or stress. I would also questions the comparators: I'd like to see the results for a traditional cigarette. We also think the overall (e.g., daily) use of e-cigs is different than traditional cigs.
Nonetheless, I think the study suggests that common claims of "e-cigs are completely harmless its just PG and vaporized nicotine" may be premature.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Shroomslip
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21460523 - 03/26/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
kr0nik0 said: Yea, I wouldn't be surprised at all if big tobacco was fabricating information to turn people away from vaping. E-Cigs seem to be the future of the industry, and they are without a doubt losing customers at an exponential rate due to the somewhat unregulated e-cig industry.
Anyways, this is the vape pen I'm planning on buying today: http://www.vaporfi.com/electronic-cigarettes/vaporfi-pro-starter-kit.html
Any thoughts on it? Maybe suggestions for one that's better in the same price range? Thanks.
How disposable is your income? It's pretty much as good of a place to start as any. You can build your own vape systems but it's kinda daunting and confusing until you've had experience with one. You also won't know what you really need until you have experience with one. Me for instance, I needed a bigger battery than 650mah for when I was at work. I had no way to really recharge it on the job. I also wanted something stronger than 3.6v which is what my first one was. I also needed a glass clearomizer because a lot of the flavors I wanted can cause cracks in the plastic ones.
It's just stuff like that you learn over time and through use.
My current setup is an Evod both clearomizer and battery. Tank is a dual coil glass and the battery is 1300mah "twist" (variable voltage). I started with just a basic evod.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
Edited by Shroomslip (03/26/15 12:30 PM)
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomslip]
#21460565 - 03/26/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said:
Quote:
kr0nik0 said: Yea, I wouldn't be surprised at all if big tobacco was fabricating information to turn people away from vaping. E-Cigs seem to be the future of the industry, and they are without a doubt losing customers at an exponential rate due to the somewhat unregulated e-cig industry.
Anyways, this is the vape pen I'm planning on buying today: http://www.vaporfi.com/electronic-cigarettes/vaporfi-pro-starter-kit.html
Any thoughts on it? Maybe suggestions for one that's better in the same price range? Thanks.
How disposable is your income? It's pretty much as good of a place to start as any. You can build your own vape systems but it's kinda daunting and confusing until you've had experience with one. You also won't know what you really need until you have experience with one. Me for instance, I needed a bigger battery than 650mah for when I was at work. I had no way to really recharge it on the job. I also wanted something stronger than 3.6v which is what my first one was. I also needed a glass clearomizer because a lot of the flavors I wanted can cause cracks in the plastic ones.
It's just stuff like that you learn over time and through use.
My current disposable income is around $75-100 a week (not much at all). I've talked to people on here about building my own and even with all the information I acquired, it went over my head.
How long did your vape hold a charge for with the 650mah battery? And around how many cigarettes did you smoke daily before switching to vaping?
I noticed that the kit I'm looking at comes with 3 extra atomizers. Around how long does 1 last with proper maintenance?
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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Shroomslip
Architekt



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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21460656 - 03/26/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well if you're currently smoking a pack a day, you can up the disposable income, you just have to commit to quitting
As for the rest. It lasted through most of my shift but by the end of it the battery was starting to get weak and It'd take several puffs to equal one "normal" one. If I had to guess, I'd say a couple hours worth of constant puffing. If you have a way to charge it, battery life shouldn't be much of an issue, I just couldn't. It's also a good idea to have two batteries if you're going to be dependent on it. That way you can just charge one while using the other. Right now I have about 6 or 7 batteries laying around various spots. I keep one in my car, and a back up cheapo battery that just happens to work with my clearomizer as a back up. And a few others in the house.
I was a pack a day+ smoker when I quit. I went to disposables and would sit there sucking on them until they burned my hands and it still wasn't good enough. So I ordered my first kit. I was stuck with the shitty disposables until it arrived.
There's too many variables to really tell you. Everything from how much and often you use it to the quality of the company making them. They can last a week or a couple of months. But I'd count on them lasting right around 1-3 weeks for a pack a day smoker. I use mine until they burn out, and you'll know cuz it'll taste fucking horrible. They last me a few weeks each. I just buy them 10 at a time.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomslip]
#21460673 - 03/26/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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I really appreciate all the information. Thank you.
One final question before I head out to buy this thing, should I get the e-juice with the highest concentration of nicotine? I'm assuming that it makes sense to do that in order to save a bit of juice and money, right?
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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Shroomslip
Architekt



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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21460690 - 03/26/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you were a pack a day smoker, yes, get the highest you can. Probably 24mg. You can always use it less if you need to, but having lower concentration and needing more means more puffs.
Also when picking juice a couple of things to consider.
First, I'd pick up two different ratios (pg to vg). Try 30/70 and 70/30. There's a lot of different preference in juice and the right juice makes all the difference. Once you see which one you like more, you know which end of the spectrum you prefer. If you wanna pick up a third can also get 50/50 and see if that's more your sweet spot.
Also can ask them about juice with WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids). They might be a bit more expensive but some people find them to work better than regular juice when trying to quit. I'm not sure what their downside is other than price but I'm sure they have one, so it's a choice you have to make. You may try just regular juice first and if it just doesn't seem to be doing it for you, then try WTA.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



Registered: 07/12/13
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: morrowasted]
#21460736 - 03/26/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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I knew from day 1 this shit wasn't good for you. Glad I didn't get caught up in that. Then again I don't really smoke
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Seriously_trippin]
#21460758 - 03/26/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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I wouldn't worry too much, for those of you on the e cig.
From subjective experience I will say that high pg concentrated juices will indeed irritate your lungs. However, I will point out that I vape basically all day and my lung capacity is back to what it was prior to smoking cigs.
If I smoke a pack of cigs on the weekend I can feel a noticeable shortness in breath. I have no such problem with e cigs. None of my friends have either.
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
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Herbologist
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: ModestMouse]
#21460761 - 03/26/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Where is Shroomism to chime in on this?
-------------------- Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends!
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Herbologist]
#21461547 - 03/26/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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There's some type of alcohol in there that makes it go up into air easily that's probably what's causing the inflammatory response
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Big Worm
Perf



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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Konyap]
#21461569 - 03/26/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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But even with this information.
I can still assume that this inflammation and the other side effects are still less harmful than cigarettes.
Right?
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Big Worm]
#21461591 - 03/26/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Depends on whether or not the liquid is radio active
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propensity
۞̷ ̶۞̷ ̶



Registered: 01/06/10
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Loc: Bedrock America
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Konyap]
#21461622 - 03/26/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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--------------------
۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ www.cactophage.com ۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ ̸ۨ͜۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟Dolphins of Dank۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆
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Shroomism
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: morrowasted] 3
#21461637 - 03/26/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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What flavorings were used and from where? That's my number one question. It's already well known in the ejuice community that certain flavors are NOT suitable for vaping as well as flavors from certain manufacturers, and will have questionable or unknown health effects. Also, some of these studies in the past have used Chinese made e-juice, which is well known to be extremely questionable and have been proven to be contaminated in many cases. The case with cinnamon flavoring is already well known, and most vendors have stopped carrying cinnamon flavoring, or switched to a different formula. Also many custard notes contain trace amounts of diacetyl. Even though it only trace amounts, it is not safe to be vaping diacetyl and could have health risks. Responsible vendors will not use these flavorings. And responsible flavoring companies that know their flavors are being used for vaping will publish their GC/MS data for each flavor. Also, these are studies on rats, not humans.
As always, know your sources.
It's not 100% proven that vaping is completely non-harmful. But what we do know, is that vaping in 99% of cases, is easily MUCH less toxic than smoking cigarettes and a MUCH safer alternative.
http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/10/10/5146/pdf http://reason.com/blog/2015/03/04/study-confirms-that-e-cigarettes-generat http://ecigarettereviewed.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Research-on-Safety-of-Electronic-Cigarettes-Dr.-Konstantinos-Farsalinos-E-Cigarette-Summit.pdf http://mnvapers.com/2014/04/epa-fda-vapor-harmless-children/ http://www.news-medical.net/news/20091104/Propylene-glycol-in-e-cigarettes-might-keep-us-healthy-says-researchers.aspx http://www.healthnz.co.nz/ECigsExhaledSmoke.htm http://spo.escardio.org/eslides/view.aspx?eevtid=54&fp=1375 http://publichealth.drexel.edu/~/media/Files/publichealth/ms08.ashx www.escardio.org/about/press/press-releases/esc12-munich/Pages/acute-effects-electronic-cigarettes-heart-damage.aspx http://www.spectator.co.uk/health/features-health/cover-feature/9442271/e-cigarettes-save-lives/ http://www.clivebates.com/documents/vapebriefing.pdf http://www.hscic.gov.uk/catalogue/PUB16076/HSE2013-Ch8-adult-cig-smo.pdf
When considering facts, one should look at ALL the facts
--------------------
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ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21462253 - 03/26/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah the fact that they mentioned specific flavors but not the compostion of the flavors was the hint that this is some bs.
half of the food grade flavorings available are harmful to vape. luckily, MOST intelligent juice manufacturers don't use them.
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: ModestMouse]
#21462511 - 03/26/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Alright, just wanted to let you guys know that I went to the vaporfi store today, and couldn't be more impressed.
Super professional. All their juices are food grade, and apparently the best in the business concerning health as far as big vape companies.
They actually have a tasting bar where they'll load up a pen with whichever flavor you want (you can mix up to 3 together) as well as the nicotine concentration you want, and also the PG/VG ratio you want. I'm in awe with their customer service.
I ended up spending 75 bucks for the vape, upgraded battery, and larger tank. And he threwh me a free leather case. 2 18mg nicotine juice (containers) with a subtle mango/lime flavoring. 1 at 70VG/30PG and the other at 50/50. Great deal as far as I can tell.
Again, I couldn't be more impressed by this place. It was like an Apple store for e-cigs.
Thank you Shroomslip for all the information beforehand. You're a class act. 
And today was the last day Kroniko smoked a cigarette for the rest of my life. I'm ecstatic.
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21462551 - 03/26/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Always happy to help someone kick the cigs.
Now I just gotta do it again 
I picked up a pack the night I knew I was gonna lose my job (week ago maybe?) and have been a pack a day smoker again since. Was off them for almost a year, too. I'm really setting the bar for myself, trying to kick two bad habits.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21462560 - 03/26/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ooooh, you got the Istick didn't you? If not what setup are you running?
I love the juice bars. I just go in with a friend and roll through the flavors on a dull day. It's always fun to find something new and tasty.
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: ModestMouse]
#21462598 - 03/26/15 08:46 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm not sure what the lstick is.
This is exactly what I got: http://www.vaporfi.com/electronic-cigarettes/vaporfi-pro-starter-kit.html
The only difference is that my tank is clear all around since I upgraded to the bigger size. Also the battery is bigger since it's more powerful. The next step up from 650 (not quite sure).
I forgot the box in my car that has all the details on the battery and tank. I'll head downstairs in a bit to give you the full details on my setup.
I forgot to mention they also threw in 5 extra atomizers for free.
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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propensity
۞̷ ̶۞̷ ̶



Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 11,056
Loc: Bedrock America
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21463688 - 03/26/15 11:51 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
kr0nik0 said: I'm not sure what the lstick is.
This is exactly what I got: http://www.vaporfi.com/electronic-cigarettes/vaporfi-pro-starter-kit.html
The only difference is that my tank is clear all around since I upgraded to the bigger size. Also the battery is bigger since it's more powerful. The next step up from 650 (not quite sure).
I forgot the box in my car that has all the details on the battery and tank. I'll head downstairs in a bit to give you the full details on my setup.
I forgot to mention they also threw in 5 extra atomizers for free.
You got ripped. That thing for 50? 650 mah? 3.7 volt?
Thats technology from like 3 to 4 years ago that should cost ~10 dollars from a legitimate source. How much "more powerful" is yours?
Should have done some more research, you could have gotten a much better vape for your money.
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۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ www.cactophage.com ۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ ̸ۨ͜۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟Dolphins of Dank۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆
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propensity
۞̷ ̶۞̷ ̶



Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 11,056
Loc: Bedrock America
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: propensity]
#21463697 - 03/26/15 11:52 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ www.cactophage.com ۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ ̸ۨ͜۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟Dolphins of Dank۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: propensity]
#21463852 - 03/27/15 12:43 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
propensity said:
Quote:
kr0nik0 said: I'm not sure what the lstick is.
This is exactly what I got: http://www.vaporfi.com/electronic-cigarettes/vaporfi-pro-starter-kit.html
The only difference is that my tank is clear all around since I upgraded to the bigger size. Also the battery is bigger since it's more powerful. The next step up from 650 (not quite sure).
I forgot the box in my car that has all the details on the battery and tank. I'll head downstairs in a bit to give you the full details on my setup.
I forgot to mention they also threw in 5 extra atomizers for free.
You got ripped. That thing for 50? 650 mah? 3.7 volt?
Thats technology from like 3 to 4 years ago that should cost ~10 dollars from a legitimate source. How much "more powerful" is yours?
Should have done some more research, you could have gotten a much better vape for your money.
I just went off of reviews online, and this one seemed to be in the top 3 for starter kits. I didn't dig in too much into my research, but I'm really enjoying it.
It ended up being a lot cheaper at the store than online. It was $50 bucks (plus the e-juice) and it came with the upgraded/bigger 2.5ml full pyrex tank and upgraded 1000 mAH battery. As well as the extra atomizers and really nice leather case.
Did I really get ripped off? I'm a complete noob to vaping unfortunately and I might of jumped the gun.
Which e-cig would you have recommended in the $50 range if I hadn't bought one already?
Edit: The upgraded battery also has an adjustable range from 3.2v to 4.8v
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
Edited by kr0nik0 (03/27/15 12:57 AM)
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21463944 - 03/27/15 01:31 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah man sorry to say but you got ripped. It's cool that they threw in an upgraded 1000mAh battery and ejuice and a case though. But all those supplies probably cost them $15 from China. It's cool though... we pretty much all got ripped off from brick and mortars when we first started. I also paid around $50 for a shitty ass ego vape setup, that thing lasted me all of two weeks before I got sick of it and upgraded.
Those pen style vapes, you will find... basically suck. But that's generally what everyone starts on. If you had asked me earlier I would have told you to start out with an MVP 2.0 or an iStick30 or similar. $35 online. variable voltage and wattage, comes with a halfway decent clearomizer, 2600 mAh battery. (edit: actually I lied.. it looks they aren't shipping those with a clearomizer or atomizer anymore.. that's kind of bunk.. but a good one can be had for ~$10-$20.)
We have a user forum dedicated to ecigs.. come check it out and if you have questions or anything post in there, everyone is very helpful and will help you out - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Cat/0/Board/236/page/0
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21463958 - 03/27/15 01:46 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Right on. Thanks for the information and link to the e-cig board. Like I said, I've been enjoying it so far today.
Even if I give up on this vape in a couple weeks because I end up not getting what I want of it, it will have already paid for itself due to not spending any money on real cigs in that time.
If/when I get tired of it I'll without a doubt try the MVP. Appreciate the suggestion.
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0] 1
#21463972 - 03/27/15 01:54 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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But props on taking the first step and kicking cigarettes. Vaping is no doubt a much safer alternative, you still get your nicotine fix and that satisfaction of inhaling something, without all the harmful and cancer-causing chemicals. And the beauty is you can lower your nicotine level down over time. For most of us, vaping turns into a hobby. But as long as it gets you off the cancer sticks, it's doing its job.
I smoked cigarettes for over 17 years, over a pack a day. I started vaping and quit cigarettes the same day. My lungs/cardio and overall health has improved drastically since. And yes its a great way to save money. I was spending ~$350+ a month on cigarettes. When I switched to vaping I was spending maybe $40-50 a month on ejuice. Now I make my own juice and prices have plummeted to ridiculous levels. Plus I know EXACTLY what goes into the juice.
Cigarettes are a worthless and harmful addiction.. Vaping is a lifestyle/fun hobby. And vaping saves lives.
Plus nicotine itself, in the extremely small quantities you get from vaping, isn't really that harmful to you, and has many known health benefits. It's all the other shit in cigarettes that kills you. (tar, carbon monoxide, benzene, arsenic, formaldehyde.. the list goes on and on).
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21463992 - 03/27/15 02:12 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thank you for the support. I had been smoking a pack a day (up to 2 packs a day if I drank heavily) for close to 12 years. Aside from the money saved, I can't wait for the health benefits to kick in.
I can't even imagine what it's going to be like to have a normal sense of taste and smell back. I'm already fairly active working out, but I can only imagine how much more stamina I'll have. Better teeth/breath, I won't smell like an ashtray all the time. The advantages seem to be almost endless.
I can definitely see it becoming a very intriguing hobby. I'm already fascinated by this really simple e-cig that I purchased and can't wait until I can start building my own mechanical mods.
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21464015 - 03/27/15 02:31 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes.. you should start to notice your sense of smell and taste start to come back strong within a few days to a week. I noticed vast improvements to my cardio within a few weeks.
And Yep.. no more smelling like an ashtray. It's great being able to vape in your car and not burn holes in your seat and carpet and shit and have ash everywhere. I purchased a new car right when I started vaping and it was great. It still smells new a year and a half or so later. Or vape in your house/room and not stain the walls yellow and have your whole house smell like an ashtray. I'm even allowed to vape at my desk at work, even the non-smokers don't mind it at all and they usually try and guess what lovely flavor I'm vaping. They actually like it.
Mechanical mods aren't really for everyone. You might want to look into a nice regulated box mod like the Sigelei 100w next if you want to take things to the next level. I just went from mechanical mods to a Sigelei 150w and I couldn't be any happier. My mech mods will be collecting dust.
It is super nice being able to build your own coils and wicks though. You save a ton of money there too. That's why I started on rebuildable atomizers, I was sick of buying new coils all the time. I spend $7 on a spool of wire, $5 on some organic cotton, and I have enough coils and wicks to last me for a year easy. Plus you get much higher vapor output on rebuildables, depending what ohms you are running at. Once you switch to a dripper you will have to drop your nicotine levels way down. I went from 18mg to 6mg on a dripper. Probably going to drop down to 3mg soon.
Here's my sigelei 150w at 150watts.. running on 0.3ohm coils. I don't vape it at that high though.. I vape around 40watts, I don't like my vapor super hot. But this thing chucks the vapor like a madman.
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propensity
۞̷ ̶۞̷ ̶



Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 11,056
Loc: Bedrock America
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21464027 - 03/27/15 02:42 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Yeah man sorry to say but you got ripped. It's cool that they threw in an upgraded 1000mAh battery and ejuice and a case though. But all those supplies probably cost them $15 from China. It's cool though... we pretty much all got ripped off from brick and mortars when we first started. I also paid around $50 for a shitty ass ego vape setup, that thing lasted me all of two weeks before I got sick of it and upgraded.
Those pen style vapes, you will find... basically suck. But that's generally what everyone starts on. If you had asked me earlier I would have told you to start out with an MVP 2.0 or an iStick30 or similar. $35 online. variable voltage and wattage, comes with a halfway decent clearomizer, 2600 mAh battery. (edit: actually I lied.. it looks they aren't shipping those with a clearomizer or atomizer anymore.. that's kind of bunk.. but a good one can be had for ~$10-$20.)
We have a user forum dedicated to ecigs.. come check it out and if you have questions or anything post in there, everyone is very helpful and will help you out - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Cat/0/Board/236/page/0
I knew you'd come in and spew the information for me if I waited long enough haha.
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۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ www.cactophage.com ۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ ̸ۨ͜۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟Dolphins of Dank۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: propensity]
#21464037 - 03/27/15 02:50 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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WhyDidiDoThis
Bay Area Mushroom Collector


Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 3,338
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: morrowasted]
#21464109 - 03/27/15 04:03 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0116732
Quote:
Abstract
Oxidative stress and inflammatory response are the key events in the pathogenesis of chronic airway diseases. The consumption of electronic cigarettes (e-cigs) with a variety of e-liquids/e-juices is alarmingly increasing without the unrealized potential harmful health effects. We hypothesized that electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS)/e-cigs pose health concerns due to oxidative toxicity and inflammatory response in lung cells exposed to their aerosols. The aerosols produced by vaporizing ENDS e-liquids exhibit oxidant reactivity suggesting oxidants or reactive oxygen species (OX/ROS) may be inhaled directly into the lung during a “vaping” session. These OX/ROS are generated through activation of the heating element which is affected by heating element status (new versus used), and occurs during the process of e-liquid vaporization. Unvaporized e-liquids were oxidative in a manner dependent on flavor additives, while flavors containing sweet or fruit flavors were stronger oxidizers than tobacco flavors. In light of OX/ROS generated in ENDS e-liquids and aerosols, the effects of ENDS aerosols on tissues and cells of the lung were measured. Exposure of human airway epithelial cells (H292) in an air-liquid interface to ENDS aerosols from a popular device resulted in increased secretion of inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-6 and IL-8. Furthermore, human lung fibroblasts exhibited stress and morphological change in response to treatment with ENDS/e-liquids. These cells also secrete increased IL-8 in response to a cinnamon flavored e-liquid and are susceptible to loss of cell viability by ENDS e-liquids. Finally, exposure of wild type C57BL/6J mice to aerosols produced from a popular e-cig increase pro-inflammatory cytokines and diminished lung glutathione levels which are critical in maintaining cellular redox balance. Thus, exposure to e-cig aerosols/juices incurs measurable oxidative and inflammatory responses in lung cells and tissues that could lead to unrealized health consequences.
Just when I was thinking about switching back....
Oxidative stress: reflects an imbalance between the systemic manifestation of reactive oxygen species and a biological system's ability to readily detoxify the reactive intermediates or to repair the resulting damage.
ROS - Reatice oxygen species http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_oxygen_species OX - Oxidate dianion http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/glutathione
With that information ... all in all, you smoke a cigarette after an e cig or smoke some crank or something equally stupid, it will just be more carcinogenic than before hand without e vapor. Or in hazardous air region. L.A. etc
also before any of this. I got hooked to cigarettes worse because of e cigarettes. Higher dose of nicotine and I was vaping all the time.
I could feel it in my lungs. Reminded me of Pulmonary Edema.. I came to my own conclusion awhile back that smokeing is bad enough. Now im putting fucking water in my lungs. Great cool, slowly drowning over here.
Edited by WhyDidiDoThis (03/27/15 04:05 AM)
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luvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: WhyDidiDoThis]
#21464147 - 03/27/15 04:48 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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OP, that's why I vape unflavored. I know all I'm inhaling is pg, vg, and nicotine
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: luvdemboomers] 1
#21464160 - 03/27/15 05:04 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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So many naysayers in the Pub

Why not just live and let live
Vaping keeps me off the crapsticks so even if it stresses out my lungs who gives a shit?! Cigarettes did the same thing on a far more destructive scale
All I know is I can run hard as fuck again my lung capacity has significantly increased since I made the switch my lungs literally feel better than they have in years and I don't crave cigarettes at all anymore not even around other smokers
And it wouldn't have happened without vaping I'd still be hooked on those shitty stinky things because cold turkey NEVER worked for me for any significant period of time.. vaping does
If you don't like it that's fine just don't talk shit on it until you've done the research and know the facts being that it is definitely magnitudes safer than the analogs and MORE FUN!
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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setb
10th level beer nerd
Registered: 01/30/11
Posts: 2,580
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Herbologist]
#21464234 - 03/27/15 05:59 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Herbologist said: Where is Shroomism to chime in on this?
He'll probably say the studies are BS because he wants to think their BS.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: setb] 1
#21464314 - 03/27/15 06:40 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Perhaps, I don't know... try reading the thread before making assumptions? Maybe you'd care to take a look through all the posted links and videos and tell me they are BS.
Quote:
Shroomism said: What flavorings were used and from where? That's my number one question. It's already well known in the ejuice community that certain flavors are NOT suitable for vaping as well as flavors from certain manufacturers, and will have questionable or unknown health effects. Also, some of these studies in the past have used Chinese made e-juice, which is well known to be extremely questionable and have been proven to be contaminated in many cases. The case with cinnamon flavoring is already well known, and most vendors have stopped carrying cinnamon flavoring, or switched to a different formula. Also many custard notes contain trace amounts of diacetyl. Even though it only trace amounts, it is not safe to be vaping diacetyl and could have health risks. Responsible vendors will not use these flavorings. And responsible flavoring companies that know their flavors are being used for vaping will publish their GC/MS data for each flavor. Also, these are studies on rats, not humans.
As always, know your sources.
It's not 100% proven that vaping is completely non-harmful. But what we do know, is that vaping in 99% of cases, is easily MUCH less toxic than smoking cigarettes and a MUCH safer alternative.
http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/10/10/5146/pdf http://reason.com/blog/2015/03/04/study-confirms-that-e-cigarettes-generat http://ecigarettereviewed.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Research-on-Safety-of-Electronic-Cigarettes-Dr.-Konstantinos-Farsalinos-E-Cigarette-Summit.pdf http://mnvapers.com/2014/04/epa-fda-vapor-harmless-children/ http://www.news-medical.net/news/20091104/Propylene-glycol-in-e-cigarettes-might-keep-us-healthy-says-researchers.aspx http://www.healthnz.co.nz/ECigsExhaledSmoke.htm http://spo.escardio.org/eslides/view.aspx?eevtid=54&fp=1375 http://publichealth.drexel.edu/~/media/Files/publichealth/ms08.ashx www.escardio.org/about/press/press-releases/esc12-munich/Pages/acute-effects-electronic-cigarettes-heart-damage.aspx http://www.spectator.co.uk/health/features-health/cover-feature/9442271/e-cigarettes-save-lives/ http://www.clivebates.com/documents/vapebriefing.pdf http://www.hscic.gov.uk/catalogue/PUB16076/HSE2013-Ch8-adult-cig-smo.pdf
When considering facts, one should look at ALL the facts
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WhyDidiDoThis
Bay Area Mushroom Collector


Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 3,338
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21464404 - 03/27/15 07:32 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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From what I further gather is there is an element call gycol ethers. As they linger in air quite often from mulitple sources. In delvoping lung tissue (adolescents) can induce irration and cause ashma Nd other like breathing problems. Gycol ethers are a by-product of the 99% safe (I got no problem with it) propylene gycol PG.
So continued use without break throughout the day, one can notice slight irritation. It is nit from the mist or nicotine but the trace (reportedly) elements of gycol ethers.
in japan I believe they are gmo'ing tabacco to grow without the chemical nicotine. Decaf cigarettes? Oral fixation addiction I guess is higher than chemical addiction based on generation groups??? That wasnt in the Japanese study, ill have to dig up where I read that one.
Edited by WhyDidiDoThis (03/27/15 07:34 AM)
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: WhyDidiDoThis]
#21464436 - 03/27/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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A Taoist story tells of an old man who accidentally fell into the river rapids leading to a high and dangerous waterfall. Onlookers feared for his life. Miraculously, he came out alive and unharmed downstream at the bottom of the falls. People asked him how he managed to survive. "I accommodated myself to the water, not the water to me. Without thinking, I allowed myself to be shaped by it. Plunging into the swirl, I came out with the swirl. This is how I survived."
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: WhyDidiDoThis]
#21464445 - 03/27/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Good thing my juice is almost pure vegetable glycerin
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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RocKerWasH
The Wanderer



Registered: 05/13/13
Posts: 198
Loc: Mile High land of Kai's
Last seen: 5 months, 21 days
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: OhMrJohnson]
#21464552 - 03/27/15 08:28 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anyone who's thinking of switching to ecigs, don't buy some cheap ass cape pen. Just buy a nice one right away because you'll eventually work your way up to a nice one. Like the "Lotus Jellyfish " with an "Aspire Atlantis" tank. Absolutely an amazing vape. I wasted so much money buying cheap e cigs, it's much better to go spend $200 on one set up that will last, instead of spending $500 on a bunch of cheap e cig batteries and tanks. Or try an "MVP" with an "Aspire Nautilus " tank.
-------------------- Laughing all alone in the dark!
Edited by RocKerWasH (03/27/15 09:50 AM)
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Almond Flour
...get off my lawn!



Registered: 12/26/08
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#21465028 - 03/27/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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I tried e cigs for a few weeks. Interesting stuff but prefer swedish snus. E cigs messed with my throat and while fun to inhail all the time...they still had me craving an unfiltered American spirit freshly rolled. Plus the nicotine felt weird without any of the other good stuff in actual tobbacco leaves.
Plus I can seriously snus anytime, anywhere, without anyone being the wiser.
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Shroomism
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Almond Flour]
#21465836 - 03/27/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you got throat irritation, it's likely the juice you were using was too high in propylene glycol content. Some people have a high sensitivity to PG. I vape 100% VG or 80%VG/20%PG. Also you can get WTA (whole tobacco alkaloid) ejuice if you are missing some of the 'umph' from cigarettes, without all the harmful effects of smoking. Snus is really bad for you.
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Herbologist
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21465873 - 03/27/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: If you got throat irritation, it's likely the juice you were using was too high in propylene glycol content. Some people have a high sensitivity to PG. I vape 100% VG or 80%VG/20%PG. Also you can get WTA (whole tobacco alkaloid) ejuice if you are missing some of the 'umph' from cigarettes, without all the harmful effects of smoking. Snus is really bad for you.
Interesting. I have a pen that i vape out of but its not any e-cig juice its BHO wax thats mixed with a little PG. I also have an ulcer in my throat. Could the PG keep it from healing because of irritation?
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Shroomism
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Herbologist]
#21465890 - 03/27/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Not really. PG is actually a very powerful antibacterial and antimicrobial when vaporized ( http://www.news-medical.net/news/20091104/Propylene-glycol-in-e-cigarettes-might-keep-us-healthy-says-researchers.aspx ), i.e - it's actually good for you. If anything, it should help your ulcer. But some people are highly sensitive to high levels of PG, and in those cases it can cause minor throat irritation or lung or eye irritation. That's about as bad as it gets, and you might need to drink more water.
In fact, many hospitals around the world have been pumping propylene glycol through their air circulation systems for over 70 years because of its effectiveness as an airborne gemicide and sanitizer. As well as in airplanes.
More info - http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+174
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Herbologist
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21466211 - 03/27/15 04:13 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Not really. PG is actually a very powerful antibacterial and antimicrobial when vaporized ( http://www.news-medical.net/news/20091104/Propylene-glycol-in-e-cigarettes-might-keep-us-healthy-says-researchers.aspx ), i.e - it's actually good for you. If anything, it should help your ulcer. But some people are highly sensitive to high levels of PG, and in those cases it can cause minor throat irritation or lung or eye irritation. That's about as bad as it gets, and you might need to drink more water.
In fact, many hospitals around the world have been pumping propylene glycol through their air circulation systems for over 70 years because of its effectiveness as an airborne gemicide and sanitizer. As well as in airplanes.
More info - http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+174
Thats awesome, never knew that.
Now I can continue to hit this pen and not worry as much 
Edit - Actually, what if its Polyethylene glycol?
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Edited by Herbologist (03/27/15 04:35 PM)
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Shroomism
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Herbologist]
#21466479 - 03/27/15 04:50 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Then that could be bad. Although the amount of PEG is very miniscule.. large amounts could be potentially dangerous. It's probably not though.. the standard is Propylene Glycol for something like that. But I have heard of one manufacturer of BHO oil using PEG.. it's not O-pen is it?
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Adolin




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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21466512 - 03/27/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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i used to have an ecid taht used PG cartiges. after like 2 weeks my lungs were pretty fucked up. always feeling itchy inside and clogged. it went away a few days after i switched back to cigs.
i have a bigger vape now that uses VG but i still prefer cigarettes. nicotine ejuice is so harsh and ive tried a bunch
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Shroomism
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Adolin]
#21466589 - 03/27/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's such a blanket statement.. there are so many different variables when it comes to ejuice. The higher nicotine content, the "harsher" the juice is. The higher the PG content, the more "throat hit" feeling you get. A pure VG juice has basically zero throat hit at all. Also some flavorings can cause a harshness. If it was too harsh for you either your nic level was way too high or too much PG or bad flavorings a combination of all three. Or it could also have something to do with the device being used. I've tried hundreds of different kinds of juice and I make my own, I have a pretty good idea of what works. And some people have different preferences. Some people like high VG juice, but you pretty much need a dripper for that.
Also I do not recommend any ecig device that uses 'cartridges'. A lot of that shit comes from China, or is made by big tobacco.. and it's trash. Never get ejuice from china, or any of those disposable gas station shit ecigs.
If anyone tries vaping ecigs and it "just doesn't do it for them" and they go back to cigarettes.. I pretty much guarantee it's either they were using a shitty device, or vaping shitty ejuice, or both. If you start out with good quality ejuice and a good device, you won't need cigarettes. They also have WTA (whole tobacco alkaloid) ejuice that contains all the alkaloids from tobacco for people who feel they are "missing something" from ejuice with just nicotine. IRL, I've turned on about 25 people to vaping and they all quit cigarettes using that and haven't gone back, 100% success rate.
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Adolin




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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21466625 - 03/27/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: That's such a blanket statement.. there are so many different variables when it comes to ejuice. The higher nicotine content, the "harsher" the juice is. The higher the PG content, the more "throat hit" feeling you get. A pure VG juice has basically zero throat hit at all. Also some flavorings can cause a harshness. If it was too harsh for you either your nic level was way too high or too much PG or bad flavorings a combination of all three. Or it could also have something to do with the device being used.
Also I do not recommend any ecig device that uses 'cartridges'. A lot of that shit comes from China, or is made by big tobacco.. and it's trash. Never get ejuice from china, or any of those disposable gas station shit ecigs.
If anyone tries vaping ecigs and it "just doesn't do it for them" and they go back to cigarettes.. I pretty much guarantee it's either they were using a shitty device, or vaping shitty ejuice, or both. If you start out with good quality ejuice and a good device, you won't need cigarettes. They also have WTA (whole tobacco alkaloid) ejuice that contains all the alkaloids from tobacco for people who feel they are "missing something" from ejuice with just nicotine. IRL, I've turned on about 25 people to vaping and they all quit cigarettes using that and haven't gone back, 100% success rate.
your forgetting that some people just like tobacco more than pure nicotine
i didnt buy my vapes with the intention of totally quitting, having a cigarette is just so much more enjoyable to me personally
i dont think my device is shitty, its an itaste mvp battery, with a kanger aerotank. i use virgin vapor 1.8% nic ejuice
i just like smoking too much i use my vape every few days maybe, but i like having it around anyways if i ever do decide to quit
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Shroomism
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Adolin]
#21466633 - 03/27/15 05:14 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's why I mentioned WTA ejuice. It contains all the alkaloids from the tobacco plant. The only thing you are missing is all the tar, carbon monoxide, benzene, arsenic, formaldahyde, etc... all the carcinogens they add to cigarettes or are produced in combustion. But if that's what you like whatever floats your boat. But you might want to give that a try sometime if you feel you are missing something from your juice. Or try different juices. People have many different preferences and there's something for everyone.
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WhyDidiDoThis
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21466688 - 03/27/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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http://www.slate.com/content/slate/blogs/humannature/2009/01/30/tobacco_without_nicotine.html
and thats how I felt. I was just too addicted to the aspect of the cigarette. Not just the nicotine but the fullness of the smoke compared to the vapor, feeling the filter hang out my lips. I Am addicted.
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Herbologist
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomism]
#21466689 - 03/27/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Then that could be bad. Although the amount of PEG is very miniscule.. large amounts could be potentially dangerous. It's probably not though.. the standard is Propylene Glycol for something like that. But I have heard of one manufacturer of BHO oil using PEG.. it's not O-pen is it?
Yes, some of them are o-pen that I have been using. The other is Timeless Vape which Idk if it does or does not have PG or PEG but im assuming it does... Actually here is a quote from a dispenary about Timeless vape cartridges "Timeless oil contains no harmful Poly-propelene Glycol, no irritating Vegetable oil, only natural pure citrus terpene as a cutting agent."
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Shroomism
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Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Herbologist]
#21467419 - 03/27/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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I found this - http://www.openvape.com/whats-inside/ Which states they do use Polyethylene Glycol, but it's the pharmaceutical grade PEG-400 which is a whole different beast than the industrial grade PEG used in other applications. The pharmaceutical grade is used in a wide variety of applications for inhalation including child inhalers and is generally regarded as safe by the FDA, so I don't think you have too much to worry about. PEG can be dangerous if you DRINK it, in large enough quantities.. but vaporized in small amounts there's not really much to worry about.
Also see this - http://starcityplaza.com/o-pen-vape-danger-polyethylene-glycol/
That being said, it would still be better if they used Propylene Glycol instead, as it serves the same exact purpose and has actual health benefits due to its germicidal properties.
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