|
morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 3 days, 1 hour
|
E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung
#21460140 - 03/26/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0116732
Quote:
Abstract
Oxidative stress and inflammatory response are the key events in the pathogenesis of chronic airway diseases. The consumption of electronic cigarettes (e-cigs) with a variety of e-liquids/e-juices is alarmingly increasing without the unrealized potential harmful health effects. We hypothesized that electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS)/e-cigs pose health concerns due to oxidative toxicity and inflammatory response in lung cells exposed to their aerosols. The aerosols produced by vaporizing ENDS e-liquids exhibit oxidant reactivity suggesting oxidants or reactive oxygen species (OX/ROS) may be inhaled directly into the lung during a “vaping” session. These OX/ROS are generated through activation of the heating element which is affected by heating element status (new versus used), and occurs during the process of e-liquid vaporization. Unvaporized e-liquids were oxidative in a manner dependent on flavor additives, while flavors containing sweet or fruit flavors were stronger oxidizers than tobacco flavors. In light of OX/ROS generated in ENDS e-liquids and aerosols, the effects of ENDS aerosols on tissues and cells of the lung were measured. Exposure of human airway epithelial cells (H292) in an air-liquid interface to ENDS aerosols from a popular device resulted in increased secretion of inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-6 and IL-8. Furthermore, human lung fibroblasts exhibited stress and morphological change in response to treatment with ENDS/e-liquids. These cells also secrete increased IL-8 in response to a cinnamon flavored e-liquid and are susceptible to loss of cell viability by ENDS e-liquids. Finally, exposure of wild type C57BL/6J mice to aerosols produced from a popular e-cig increase pro-inflammatory cytokines and diminished lung glutathione levels which are critical in maintaining cellular redox balance. Thus, exposure to e-cig aerosols/juices incurs measurable oxidative and inflammatory responses in lung cells and tissues that could lead to unrealized health consequences.
Just when I was thinking about switching back....
|
kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: morrowasted]
#21460419 - 03/26/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Excuse my ignorance, but could you possibly put this into layman's terms?
I've been smoking cigarettes for around 12 years now and was planning on going to the Vapor-Fi store by my place today to buy a vape pen. I've tried the disposables several times, but wasn't a fan of them.
I thought that the only ingredients in e-juice besides nicotine/flavoring were propylene glycol, glycerin, and/or polyethylene glycol which AFAIK doesn't cause any health issues.
I'm having trouble understanding how vaping these ingredients causes oxidative and inflammatory responses in the lungs. Are these organ responses more dangerous than smoking a traditional cigarette?
--------------------
“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
|
morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 3 days, 1 hour
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21460422 - 03/26/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
TBH I don't know exactly what it means myself, I was hoping BadChad or someone could enlighten us. I think it basically means that they are bad for you in a slightly different way but maybe not as bad.
|
Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 1 hour, 41 minutes
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: morrowasted]
#21460451 - 03/26/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Most people who turn to vaping to quit cigarettes do so because they can't seem to kick the cigs any other way. And there are a lot of positive trade offs on ecigs over regular cigs. I really doubt that ecigs are any worse for you and they have the benefit of not making you stink, giving you back your ability to not get out of breath after 5 minutes, giving you back your sense of smell, not costing as much and probably quite a few others I'm just not thinking of off the top of my head.
Also I wouldn't be surprised to find out the big tobacco companies were paying people off to make ecigs seem just as bad or worse than regular cigs. The big companies are starting to produce their own ecigs, but they're all disposable and all disposables suck. They've no doubt realized by now that this has the potential to cost them billions of dollars every year.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
Edited by Shroomslip (03/26/15 12:06 PM)
|
kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomslip]
#21460488 - 03/26/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Yea, I wouldn't be surprised at all if big tobacco was fabricating information to turn people away from vaping. E-Cigs seem to be the future of the industry, and they are without a doubt losing customers at an exponential rate due to the somewhat unregulated e-cig industry.
Anyways, this is the vape pen I'm planning on buying today: http://www.vaporfi.com/electronic-cigarettes/vaporfi-pro-starter-kit.html
Any thoughts on it? Maybe suggestions for one that's better in the same price range? Thanks.
--------------------
“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
|
rooster149
Stranger


Registered: 08/11/14
Posts: 39
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomslip]
#21460499 - 03/26/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
To my understanding, the research basically showed that internal exposure to aerosolized e-liquid caused tissue inflammation with the intensity of said inflammation being based on the flavor and that select products led to cell death. Would the cells be able to absorb the particles if oxygen wasn't as high a factor in the aerosol concentrations? This is cool stuff!
--------------------
|
badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: morrowasted]
#21460516 - 03/26/15 12:26 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I'm not a toxicologist, but the paper appears to document some basic, fairly non-specific inflammatory markers that are indicative of stress and/or toxic effects. They did some studies exposing cultured lung cells and live mice to the e-juice by itself and vaporized e-juice.
From my limited knowledge the questions I would have are the translatabilty to humans. Seems to me the human lung can withstand some basic amount of toxicological exposure or stress. I would also questions the comparators: I'd like to see the results for a traditional cigarette. We also think the overall (e.g., daily) use of e-cigs is different than traditional cigs.
Nonetheless, I think the study suggests that common claims of "e-cigs are completely harmless its just PG and vaporized nicotine" may be premature.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
|
Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 1 hour, 41 minutes
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21460523 - 03/26/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
kr0nik0 said: Yea, I wouldn't be surprised at all if big tobacco was fabricating information to turn people away from vaping. E-Cigs seem to be the future of the industry, and they are without a doubt losing customers at an exponential rate due to the somewhat unregulated e-cig industry.
Anyways, this is the vape pen I'm planning on buying today: http://www.vaporfi.com/electronic-cigarettes/vaporfi-pro-starter-kit.html
Any thoughts on it? Maybe suggestions for one that's better in the same price range? Thanks.
How disposable is your income? It's pretty much as good of a place to start as any. You can build your own vape systems but it's kinda daunting and confusing until you've had experience with one. You also won't know what you really need until you have experience with one. Me for instance, I needed a bigger battery than 650mah for when I was at work. I had no way to really recharge it on the job. I also wanted something stronger than 3.6v which is what my first one was. I also needed a glass clearomizer because a lot of the flavors I wanted can cause cracks in the plastic ones.
It's just stuff like that you learn over time and through use.
My current setup is an Evod both clearomizer and battery. Tank is a dual coil glass and the battery is 1300mah "twist" (variable voltage). I started with just a basic evod.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
Edited by Shroomslip (03/26/15 12:30 PM)
|
kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomslip]
#21460565 - 03/26/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shroomslip said:
Quote:
kr0nik0 said: Yea, I wouldn't be surprised at all if big tobacco was fabricating information to turn people away from vaping. E-Cigs seem to be the future of the industry, and they are without a doubt losing customers at an exponential rate due to the somewhat unregulated e-cig industry.
Anyways, this is the vape pen I'm planning on buying today: http://www.vaporfi.com/electronic-cigarettes/vaporfi-pro-starter-kit.html
Any thoughts on it? Maybe suggestions for one that's better in the same price range? Thanks.
How disposable is your income? It's pretty much as good of a place to start as any. You can build your own vape systems but it's kinda daunting and confusing until you've had experience with one. You also won't know what you really need until you have experience with one. Me for instance, I needed a bigger battery than 650mah for when I was at work. I had no way to really recharge it on the job. I also wanted something stronger than 3.6v which is what my first one was. I also needed a glass clearomizer because a lot of the flavors I wanted can cause cracks in the plastic ones.
It's just stuff like that you learn over time and through use.
My current disposable income is around $75-100 a week (not much at all). I've talked to people on here about building my own and even with all the information I acquired, it went over my head.
How long did your vape hold a charge for with the 650mah battery? And around how many cigarettes did you smoke daily before switching to vaping?
I noticed that the kit I'm looking at comes with 3 extra atomizers. Around how long does 1 last with proper maintenance?
--------------------
“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
|
Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 1 hour, 41 minutes
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21460656 - 03/26/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Well if you're currently smoking a pack a day, you can up the disposable income, you just have to commit to quitting
As for the rest. It lasted through most of my shift but by the end of it the battery was starting to get weak and It'd take several puffs to equal one "normal" one. If I had to guess, I'd say a couple hours worth of constant puffing. If you have a way to charge it, battery life shouldn't be much of an issue, I just couldn't. It's also a good idea to have two batteries if you're going to be dependent on it. That way you can just charge one while using the other. Right now I have about 6 or 7 batteries laying around various spots. I keep one in my car, and a back up cheapo battery that just happens to work with my clearomizer as a back up. And a few others in the house.
I was a pack a day+ smoker when I quit. I went to disposables and would sit there sucking on them until they burned my hands and it still wasn't good enough. So I ordered my first kit. I was stuck with the shitty disposables until it arrived.
There's too many variables to really tell you. Everything from how much and often you use it to the quality of the company making them. They can last a week or a couple of months. But I'd count on them lasting right around 1-3 weeks for a pack a day smoker. I use mine until they burn out, and you'll know cuz it'll taste fucking horrible. They last me a few weeks each. I just buy them 10 at a time.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
|
kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Shroomslip]
#21460673 - 03/26/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I really appreciate all the information. Thank you.
One final question before I head out to buy this thing, should I get the e-juice with the highest concentration of nicotine? I'm assuming that it makes sense to do that in order to save a bit of juice and money, right?
--------------------
“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
|
Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 1 hour, 41 minutes
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: kr0nik0]
#21460690 - 03/26/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
If you were a pack a day smoker, yes, get the highest you can. Probably 24mg. You can always use it less if you need to, but having lower concentration and needing more means more puffs.
Also when picking juice a couple of things to consider.
First, I'd pick up two different ratios (pg to vg). Try 30/70 and 70/30. There's a lot of different preference in juice and the right juice makes all the difference. Once you see which one you like more, you know which end of the spectrum you prefer. If you wanna pick up a third can also get 50/50 and see if that's more your sweet spot.
Also can ask them about juice with WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids). They might be a bit more expensive but some people find them to work better than regular juice when trying to quit. I'm not sure what their downside is other than price but I'm sure they have one, so it's a choice you have to make. You may try just regular juice first and if it just doesn't seem to be doing it for you, then try WTA.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
|
Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 14,470
Last seen: 7 hours, 27 minutes
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: morrowasted]
#21460736 - 03/26/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I knew from day 1 this shit wasn't good for you. Glad I didn't get caught up in that. Then again I don't really smoke
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
|
ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Seriously_trippin]
#21460758 - 03/26/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I wouldn't worry too much, for those of you on the e cig.
From subjective experience I will say that high pg concentrated juices will indeed irritate your lungs. However, I will point out that I vape basically all day and my lung capacity is back to what it was prior to smoking cigs.
If I smoke a pack of cigs on the weekend I can feel a noticeable shortness in breath. I have no such problem with e cigs. None of my friends have either.
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
|
Herbologist
Grrratata



Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 7,471
Loc: Casa Bonita
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: ModestMouse]
#21460761 - 03/26/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Where is Shroomism to chime in on this?
-------------------- Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends!
|
Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Herbologist]
#21461547 - 03/26/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
There's some type of alcohol in there that makes it go up into air easily that's probably what's causing the inflammatory response
|
Big Worm
Perf



Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 7,642
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Konyap]
#21461569 - 03/26/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
But even with this information.
I can still assume that this inflammation and the other side effects are still less harmful than cigarettes.
Right?
|
Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Big Worm]
#21461591 - 03/26/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Depends on whether or not the liquid is radio active
|
propensity
۞̷ ̶۞̷ ̶



Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 11,056
Loc: Bedrock America
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: Konyap]
#21461622 - 03/26/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ www.cactophage.com ۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟͢ ̸ۨ͜۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆ͯ̑͘ ̶̖̭ͧ͛ͬ͑ͣͦ̍ͧ͐͟Dolphins of Dank۞̷̛̗̗͉͇̰̅͒ͯͩ̆
|
Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
|
Re: E-cigs with flavorings induce Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Inflammatory Response in Lung [Re: morrowasted] 3
#21461637 - 03/26/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
What flavorings were used and from where? That's my number one question. It's already well known in the ejuice community that certain flavors are NOT suitable for vaping as well as flavors from certain manufacturers, and will have questionable or unknown health effects. Also, some of these studies in the past have used Chinese made e-juice, which is well known to be extremely questionable and have been proven to be contaminated in many cases. The case with cinnamon flavoring is already well known, and most vendors have stopped carrying cinnamon flavoring, or switched to a different formula. Also many custard notes contain trace amounts of diacetyl. Even though it only trace amounts, it is not safe to be vaping diacetyl and could have health risks. Responsible vendors will not use these flavorings. And responsible flavoring companies that know their flavors are being used for vaping will publish their GC/MS data for each flavor. Also, these are studies on rats, not humans.
As always, know your sources.
It's not 100% proven that vaping is completely non-harmful. But what we do know, is that vaping in 99% of cases, is easily MUCH less toxic than smoking cigarettes and a MUCH safer alternative.
http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/10/10/5146/pdf http://reason.com/blog/2015/03/04/study-confirms-that-e-cigarettes-generat http://ecigarettereviewed.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Research-on-Safety-of-Electronic-Cigarettes-Dr.-Konstantinos-Farsalinos-E-Cigarette-Summit.pdf http://mnvapers.com/2014/04/epa-fda-vapor-harmless-children/ http://www.news-medical.net/news/20091104/Propylene-glycol-in-e-cigarettes-might-keep-us-healthy-says-researchers.aspx http://www.healthnz.co.nz/ECigsExhaledSmoke.htm http://spo.escardio.org/eslides/view.aspx?eevtid=54&fp=1375 http://publichealth.drexel.edu/~/media/Files/publichealth/ms08.ashx www.escardio.org/about/press/press-releases/esc12-munich/Pages/acute-effects-electronic-cigarettes-heart-damage.aspx http://www.spectator.co.uk/health/features-health/cover-feature/9442271/e-cigarettes-save-lives/ http://www.clivebates.com/documents/vapebriefing.pdf http://www.hscic.gov.uk/catalogue/PUB16076/HSE2013-Ch8-adult-cig-smo.pdf
When considering facts, one should look at ALL the facts
--------------------
|
|