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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: morrowasted]
    #21446582 - 03/23/15 10:45 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
I might agree that consciousness is ontologically primary but I think that anecdotal/experiential evidence is the weakest.




Science has been applied to the gathering, analysis and verification of anecdotal data in many areas with tremendous accuracy.  Marketing and politics, for example.  Our criminal justice system is built on it.  Truth comes through experience, but a solid process is needed to increase the odds that the broader implications of that experience is valid.  Literally, there are millions of people that work on this science in various fields every day.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21446593 - 03/23/15 10:47 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, in a way all of science is based on anecdotes. But the ability of anecdotes to be repeated using the same experimental setup is what confirms a scientific hypothesis.

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: morrowasted]
    #21446620 - 03/23/15 10:52 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Yes, in a way all of science is based on anecdotes. But the ability of anecdotes to be repeated using the same experimental setup is what confirms a scientific hypothesis.




This is definitely happening with the exploration of consciousness and the realms that we are able to experience in non ordinary states of mind.  The hypothesis … can two people in two different locations meet up at a dream "location" and interact with one another in a lucid real time way that can be monitored and verified has been proven … over and over and over.  They are gathering information about the "environment" and then upon return to a waking state and being debriefed, are describing the exact same experience with the same accuracy you might describe a walk in the park with a friend. Same level of detail, sequence, timing, etc.  This is going well beyond the "peak mystical experience" that cannot be verified or even understood.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21446622 - 03/23/15 10:52 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I'd like to see these studies.

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OfflineTopPmz
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Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: morrowasted]
    #21446633 - 03/23/15 10:54 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
I'd like to see these studies.




I second that.


--------------------
"Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: TopPmz]
    #21446754 - 03/23/15 11:16 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TopPmz said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
I'd like to see these studies.




I second that.




Read Monroe's books.  He was a very serious guy.  Applied the scientific process to what he did.  Never took any drugs and zero religious mumbo jumbo.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21446858 - 03/23/15 11:36 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Do you have the books? Can you just cite the references therein?

I always find it suspicious when studies are only cited by a single person.

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: morrowasted]
    #21446907 - 03/23/15 11:46 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Do you have the books? Can you just cite the references therein?

I always find it suspicious when studies are only cited by a single person.




Just as anyone that truly wants to argue for or against evolution would probably do themselves a favor to actually read "On the Origin of Species" and Richard Dawkins or if one was to argue for or against Global warming it might be good to understand the research, it is somewhat silly to try and understand a complex topic like this with an internet link or an article here or there.  Robert Monroe's books are a great foundation as his organization conducted research and documented it for decades.  Stephen LaBerge ran the sleep research lab at Stanford and his books and papers are worth looking into.  In addition, the Tibetans have done a lot of work over centuries with cultivating dream states for practical reasons … there are countless shamanic tales and research projects to dive into as well.  Taoists approached this topic in a very serious way too.

This is a topic that has fascinated man for thousands of years.  There is a lot out there on it if you are genuinely interested in learning.  To be honest, a person that says "there is no evidence that there are other real reality systems out there humans can interact and it's all just brain chemistry," it's as silly as the college dropout that goes to church every Sunday, doesn't understand statistics or algebra, and parrots "global warming is a hoax" because his "clan" all believe that.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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OfflineTopPmz
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Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21446917 - 03/23/15 11:48 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

You should mail us the books so we don't have to track them down and buy them.


--------------------
"Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"

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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21447015 - 03/23/15 12:08 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
 

Why these earth bodies/beings are the way we are is a most interesting discussion.





Damn right. I believe the human being is the creator but also the created. The creator created us TO create.

the body can be viewed in many different ways. It can be viewed as a monkey body that is just a bunch of neurons firing to create thought. Or it can be viewed as a machine-vehicle that's holding itself down in space that's capable of reaching the infinite. Perhaps both.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: TopPmz]
    #21447021 - 03/23/15 12:10 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TopPmz said:
You should mail us the books so we don't have to track them down and buy them.




Got a library card?  You being a person that's active on a site like the "Shroomery" I can almost guarantee you you'll find the books absolutely fascinating.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21447026 - 03/23/15 12:11 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

You might be surprised, I got tired of reading books that don't challenge me.

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OfflineTopPmz
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Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21447063 - 03/23/15 12:22 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

TopPmz said:
You should mail us the books so we don't have to track them down and buy them.




Got a library card?  You being a person that's active on a site like the "Shroomery" I can almost guarantee you you'll find the books absolutely fascinating.




I was totally joking. I actually first posted in this thread so I can find the book titles more easily.


--------------------
"Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: TopPmz]
    #21447069 - 03/23/15 12:24 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
You might be surprised, I got tired of reading books that don't challenge me.




This is a great book that covers the topic from a Tibetan perspective and the translation by Robert Thurmann is really well done. 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Tibetan-Book-Dead-Understanding/dp/0553370901


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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InvisibleShiithead
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Posts: 10,102
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Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21450216 - 03/24/15 08:45 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

shiithead is the one that's attesting to the accuracy of the bible, I'm simply
asking for a validation of that accuracy from shiithead, something he fails at




My validation is that the manuscripts we're discovered over a different number of years in different places. And above all they weren't wrote in a weekend. There are 66 books penned by 44 authors over thousands of years. And there are different copies that were found that line up word for word, line for line.

Also other cultures paint the same picture the Bible does. Or at least close enough for it and all the other cultures to be right when it comes to the history of this place.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: Shiithead] * 1
    #21450293 - 03/24/15 09:09 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shiithead said:
My validation is that the manuscripts we're discovered over a different number of years in different places. And there are different copies that were found that line up word for word, line for line.





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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: Shiithead]
    #21450329 - 03/24/15 09:22 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shiithead said:

My validation is that the manuscripts we're discovered over a different number of years in different places. And above all they weren't wrote in a weekend. There are 66 books penned by 44 authors over thousands of years. And there are different copies that were found that line up word for word, line for line.

Also other cultures paint the same picture the Bible does. Or at least close enough for it and all the other cultures to be right when it comes to the history of this place.




The four gospels that matter in the NT are Luke, Matthew, Mark and John … All written AFTER Christ's death and none of them knew Christ while he was alive.  That is sketchy to start with.  Throw in the Roman led editing of the bible and it gets even sketchier.  Throw in the dead sea scrolls about apocalyptic literature at the time and it gets even sketchier.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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InvisibleShiithead
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Posts: 10,102
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Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: Confucian]
    #21450556 - 03/24/15 10:35 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Quote:

Shiithead said:
My validation is that the manuscripts we're discovered over a different number of years in different places. And there are different copies that were found that line up word for word, line for line.









What about the other cultures? It is not only the Bible that lines up with history...


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 10,102
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21450567 - 03/24/15 10:38 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
none of them knew Christ while he was alive.




You are dead wrong dude. Do some research instead of taking other people's word for it. Your ignorance is appalling. And that is me being nice. If you do know what you're talking about on the other hand then you a liar...


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Evolution is a lie?? [Re: Shiithead]
    #21450622 - 03/24/15 10:51 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shiithead said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
none of them knew Christ while he was alive.




You are dead wrong dude. Do some research instead of taking other people's word for it. Your ignorance is appalling. And that is me being nice. If you do know what you're talking about on the other hand then you a liar...




I've done a lot of research on it.  There is disagreement but the evidence that appears most credible to me is that the 4 gospels were written at least 50 years after Jesus Death and not by any of Jesus' disciples.  And, of course, Paul never met Jesus while he was alive either.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

Edited by KauaiOrca (03/24/15 10:52 AM)

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