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OfflineDreamer987
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Registered: 04/15/03
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trouble in paradise
    #2143532 - 11/29/03 02:04 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)



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OfflineSheepish
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Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 10,137
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2143818 - 11/29/03 06:40 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

That saddens me so much.


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Offlinetrippinlizard
gridwalker

Registered: 12/29/02
Posts: 219
Loc: in the shade of the mushr...
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Sheepish]
    #2145552 - 11/30/03 12:24 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Registered: 05/08/01
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2145586 - 11/30/03 01:07 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

What the fuck?!  That's fucked! :frown: :frown: :frown: :thumbdown: :sad:

 


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: trouble in paradise [Re: geokills]
    #2145601 - 11/30/03 01:22 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Welcome to The United States of the World.  Please enjoy your stay.  :mad: 


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: trouble in paradise [Re: bert]
    #2145840 - 11/30/03 04:49 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

"combat drug tourists"

Drug tourists... they are a menace only rivaled by terrorists!!!

First the UN, now the EU, joins the drug war.  One world government with their unifying goal of putting all pot smokers in jail.  What a bunch of humanitarians. :rolleyes: 


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: trouble in paradise [Re: bert]
    #2146011 - 11/30/03 06:53 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Those drug tourists probally do quite a bit for the economy.


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #2146171 - 11/30/03 09:47 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Which is exactly why we need the dope tourists in jail, and their bank, house, and car seized.


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2146312 - 11/30/03 12:06 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

This is a big mistake for Amsterdam. Imagine how much money they'll lose.

Dumbasses. I wonder if the Cannabis Cup is dead now????





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Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2148070 - 12/01/03 12:10 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

When will they begin enforcing this?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2148097 - 12/01/03 12:25 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

According to the people in  this source, this would still have to pass the Dutch parliment.  A feat they claim won't happen.

Let's hope their right.  I planned a trip in March.  Even if they do decided to ban tourists, how long would it take them to enforce the law?  Would a trip in March still likely be, let's say, fruitful? :laugh: 


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2148654 - 12/01/03 07:43 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Thanks for the link. I was worried there for a second.

This won't pass. They aren't that stupid.





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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2148863 - 12/01/03 10:47 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Heheheheh guys you just don't get it do you? :grin:

You can bet on this law being passed like gas after chili. Now I have smoked cannabis for 12 years. 1990-2002, the Cannabis Years, five kilos of sweet, sweet Dutch hydroponic that kicks the crap out of import at five dollars a gram.

But now my cannabis years are over. These laws are upon us, they'll likely pass and quite frankly parliament and the EC could not have made me happier then by slamming this law down on Dutch pot.

Let me tell you something about the Dutch coffeeshops. They SUCK. In my cannabis years I rarely spent time there, it usually was in and out because a lot of coffeeshops, well, suck. A bunch of zombie dopers in a mist of smoke being fried by grass and loud music.
It sucks people!

But now the background. Cannabis is readily, legally and cheaply  available throughout Holland. When a kid wants to go weeeeeeeeee!
http://www.threebrain.com/weeeeee.shtml
he tokes up on pot. He gets stoned, even more stoned and then after a while over 9/10 of them decide drugs -suck- put out the doobie and get a life like teenagers should.

And this is a great, great thing !! Because our kids generally start out going weeeeeeeeeeed! and not tweeeeeeeeeeeeek! like in the USA. Cannabis is a very forgiving drug. OD on it and its A Nightmare on Kalverstreet for you. You'll turn white like a ghost, perhaps puke or fall faint at most. Hey, you'll live and won't do that again! And even the rare few who get an addiction going generally need to grind their teeth for 2-3 weeks tops and the clouds will lift.

And this with a drug that will make the shoelaces crawl out of your Nikes (well make a tea of good grass by throwing crumbled grass into a pot with water that has just boiled, steep 15min, eat the grounds too on an empty stomach and see how high you'll get! A gram of good hydroponic will send veterans begging for mercy for 6-12 hours on end, high doses NOT recommended) This with cannabis: a SOFT drug lacking most dangers of the HARD drugs Americans start out on.

And you know what this means? What this boils down to? Every year dozens of kids in our tiny country do -NOT DIE- by OD. Every year thousands of kids do -NOT BECOME ADDICTS- because cannabis is the default drug of choice here. And those wo DO want to get into hard stuff will be *MORE SOPHISTICATED IN THE USE OF DRUGS* because they made all the newbie mistakes with the Happy Herb and not the Killer Crack. And because our government reluctantly decided in the 70s to get *real* on drugs. We are pragmatic over here. America is a -big- country. Holland is a -very small- country. So because of this lack of size our government decided we could make better use of soil then building a -junkie cemetary the size of fucking ARLINGTON- like the US government decided to do. And you know what? Our voters actually back this realistic choice, quite unlike the US voters who generally vote with their gut instead of their brains. :wtf:

And you know what? Take 1.000 Americans and 1.000 Dutch people and compare the drug use patterns. Quite strange! Americans have DOUBLE the amount of drug users among those 1.000.. Yes: that goes for CANNABIS too. In America kids grow up with the notion drugs are cool and rad and da bomb or whatever's the fad. In Holland drugs are, well.. drugs. Want some? Sheesh  :sad:  In Holland you either use drugs or you don't but you don't bitch about it and they're not cool.

This is the reality of Dutch Cannabis: Busloads of lives saved from ODs. Thousands have NOT become junkies. Tens of thousands use drugs more responsibly and the burden of drug use gone sour upon society is among the lowest of the Western Nations.


But there's trouble in paradise indeed. American politics not only bites wind but it blackmails other governments into biting wind too :mad2:  France just has to be holier-then-whatever because it is ofcourse completely unacceptable that we Dutchies light up  :stash: while its only natural that they light up 100 KT nuclear bombs and blow Mururoa atol to shite amidst a worldwide nuclear test ban.
FRANCE: FUCK YOU !! When druggies from your country come here to score their grass you ought to kiss our butts in thanks because otherwise they'd shoot up that godawful heroin that pours in from Marseille, France's junkie problem is way, way outthere.

Hmm anyhoo. We get bullied by the big boys and we've got conservatives of our own so years ago we could only take 3 grams and not 30 in one coffeeshop visit, courtesy of the DEMIRATS '66 party.
But okay..


And NOW this comes to pass. People: when I read it in the newspaper I went ballistic in rapturous joy and (yes!) CHEERED my morning paper!

Holland never got the thumbs-up by the nagging European Community. Well.. we've appearantly managed to blackmai..er..lobby them into reluctantly accepting the coffeeshop if we step down on drug crime.

A lot of European Nations covertly drool in envy at our drug statistics. In England, Germany and other nations people start to realize we Dutchies aren't as dumb as we're made out to be. But always our policy has been legally taboo in the EC..
Well you're pretty OWN3D French politicians because we are taking a big stride forwards in expanding the borders of Coffeeshop-ness ! Just a lil % of votes and some spindoctering and Germany opens wide!

In America the police and government are rightfully regarded as the 21th century equivalent of SS stormtroopers and their f?hrers (I'm afraid in the not to near future this will be consensus throughout the world.. The smart shit marbles at what the US is becoming lately.. :sad:)
In Holland this is not quite the case. You will have to show an ID card but files will not be kept as this is contrary to privacy laws.

When you're foreign and on a Dutch holiday you really do not want to go sit in a smoky coffeeshop in summer. When toking up in Amsterdam in summer you're in the beautiful Vondel Park chilling with your buddies.
And if you're in Holland and there's the ID thing and all.. Get friendly with the natives and if he's a toker he'll merrily buy it for you.

No.. I disagree with you guys, if politics within Holland do not detoriorate further (everybody expects next elections to set things straight because the current support for the elected CDA and VVD -current- conservative policy is 20% and dwindling. We are being squeezed by the leeches to such an extent we wouldn't be surprised if a law were passed to tax dick cheese. If you ask a Dutchie "who is the overgrown Harry Potter with the beaver on his head" then literally nine out of ten will say "Prime Minister Balkenende!" nuff said? :evil:) I would on the contrary say that there's a big chance for a better  :stash:GREENER :stash: Europe.



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Offlinecastaway
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Registered: 06/10/03
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Asante]
    #2148887 - 12/01/03 11:09 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Awesome man...


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,770
Loc: High pride!
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Asante]
    #2149520 - 12/01/03 03:42 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Dude, I read that whole thing, but I don't know what your point is.

Why are you happy that only locals will be able to buy marijuana in Amsterdam? Because you don't like the drug tourism?






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Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



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OfflineDailyPot
Trip'n Time

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 2,207
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Learyfan]
    #2150411 - 12/01/03 09:04 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Cuz drug tourism is so horrible they gotta combat it? Those stupid dumb fucks, I talked to a DEA agent a week ago that said flat out there is no way in hell drugs are ever gonna get stopped. The Dutch idea started off so well :sad:


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OfflineDreamer987
The VerbalHerman Munster
Female

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 5,326
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Asante]
    #2150578 - 12/01/03 10:10 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

"A bunch of zombie dopers in a mist of smoke being fried by grass and loud music.
It sucks people!

he tokes up on pot. He gets stoned, even more stoned and then after a while over 9/10 of them decide drugs -suck- put out the doobie and get a life like teenagers should."

for a self proclaimed mj smoker you seem to have a negitive view of other users :tongue:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Learyfan]
    #2150675 - 12/01/03 10:55 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Hmmm..

My point is that people visiting Holland even if there will be an ID law in effect will get their grass just like that. ID records will most likely not be kept. If you get friendly with a Dutch toker he can buy it for you. If he has spent his "allowance" of 3gr a day he'll go to the coffeeshop next door because.. ID records are not kept :lol:
Here in Holland we kept some pretty good books. But then Hitler levelled Rotterdam and occupied our land. To our horror all our neat books were used to highly efficiently deport Jews to death camps. When a resistance group (the German phrase was "terrorist cell") set a population registry office ablaze which destroyed a lot of books this spared thousands upon thousands of lives. This national shock regarding the -danger- of information technology (waaay before pong!) made us pay close attention to the protection of privacy through strict laws.

Drug tourism as it is will kill the Dutch hemp paradise, because some people (and I am specifically talking about a substantial group of  people from the UK) come over here every week and make a spectacle of themselves. I don't know if you've ever seen the videoclip "Smack My Bitch Up" by THE PRODIGY, but please download it from Kazaa or so to get a rather innocent idea what i'm talking about. They hop off the ferry, get piss drunk on heineken and hurl beercans all across the street often aimed, they gobble any drug they can find in suicidal mixes, beat stuff and people up, enter pharmacies high like the eighth Wonder of the Modern World and demand to be sold XTC tablets. They return home with a bigass ziplock bag of weed cleverly disguised as a bigass ziplock bag of weed in their coat pocket. Prostitutes in the red light district are bothered and all the while its joints joints joints. In Great Britain they call this particular psychopath behavior "Hooliganism" and it is a most unlikely sight to behold.
Please watch that videoclip. Its a bit random but you'll see which type of "drug tourism" Holland is facing.
Or how about the guys who take kilos of hard drugs in and out of our country? A lot of nations condemn us for drug trafficking but 4/5 times its international organized crime that settles in Holland because our laws -were- the mildest of europe on drug-crime-.

Use of drugs and user quantities is pretty much ok here for any drug.
Users with sane amounts of drugs got it pretty good here.


So whats the situation?
1...Regular marijuana tourists -will- get their weed through going native and having an OK Dutch guy buy it for them and dealers will jump in on the market action of the legislation.
Criminal psychopath hooligans however will not so easily get weed anymore because they are too fucked up on drugs and behavior to get smalltalk or a reasonable deal going. And: the police will have more leverage to keep the wrong guys out.

2...The laws that we're required to beef up for the EC deal specifically target dealers, manufacturers and significant traffickers and then its only giving a judge the possibility to give a higher punishment and by NO means is about "mandatory minimums".
Users had it good and this will remain so. If you're part of the -business- however holland will lose its special attraction and this gets rid of the real thugs: international crime and international politics.

3...Not only does the Dutch coffeeshop situation get some legal backing, but the whole legitimized Cannabis movement in other European nations gets a big boost too. Holland's coffeeshop has allways been the pariah of EC conservatives but now it gets sorta woven into EC policy. The possibility that more European countries will open up coffeeshop doors will increase vastly because in Germany and England these movements in politics already start emerging from the underground.
DUTCH WORKS. DUTCH LOWERS CRIME. DUTCH IS MORE HUMANE. DUTCH COSTS LESS.
These are very powerful messages to our neughboring nations.
Now in the near future it is quite unlikely, but given this development in the light of the EC rightwing countercurrent peak, but when we move to the (political) left again as we always do and some whopping nations already got cannabis programs going and see the unavoidable success of it, it might just be that the United States of Europe will say YES to cannabis. It is a fact: DUTCH WORKS. 


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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: Asante]
    #2151340 - 12/02/03 10:53 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

I don't agree with your comments about coffeeshops. I think coffeeshops are great. You are right, there are danky, dark coffeeshops with totally stoned people, but what's wrong with that? I really like the atmosphere in coffeeshops. Most coffeeshops have a very friendly atmosphere, and people from all layers of the population visit. There are also neat and trendy coffeeshops.

I think it really sucks that tourists won't be allowed in the coffeeshops anymore. I really enjoy looking at tourists, who have never smoked or are unexperienced with strong weed, getting totally stoned  :grin:
But tourists will still be able to smoke the dope. Just stand outside a coffeeshop and ask somebody to get some for you. That's what we did when we were <18, or I'd ask my brother to get some. Then go to a nice place and light up. There are also some pubs where they don't mind smokers.

Wiccan you say you can only get 3 grams in the shops. But that's wrong, you can get 5 grams in shops, and you're allowed to keep 3 plants.

I've never seen those hooligans you are talking about, but I don't visit Amsterdam that often. IMO the hooligan problem, if there is such a thing, won't get any better if they aren't allowed to get weed. Probably worse, because they won't be calmed by the sweet MJ anymore.

The situation is improving throughout europe. I think small amounts of weed were recently decriminalized in Switzerland and Belgium. 


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: trouble in paradise [Re: cybrbeast]
    #2151576 - 12/02/03 12:37 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

:thumbup: Thanks for the sensible post man. :smile:
I have been to Amsterdam and have never seen a bunch of crazy disrespectful people. I was actually quite moved at how beautiful the city really is. Most of the people I met were very nice and respectful wether they were from Holland or another country.

If this law is passed how do you think it will affect your economy?
Seems alot of money is brought into your country by people who want to know what  it is like to be able to use there birthright to smoke a plant and not feel like a criminal. Even if us "tourist" can still come and have somebody go into a coffee shop and get us bud it won't be like it was.
Its quite a feeling to be able to walk into a coffee shop and pick out your buds and sit down and smoke it in complete freedom. Its a taste of the way thing should be everywere. My trip to Amsterdam convinced me of the importance of ending the war on drugs in my own country.

IMO a law against drug use is complete bullshit. No matter what country it is in. As a child of the earth I have a right to smoke weed any fuckin place I want. I should also note that I very, very rarely smoke anymore. When I was young I did, but gave it up for personal reasons. I still believe any law against marijuana is completly unjust.

I have met a ton of people that have been inspired by there trips to Amsterdam. Growing up in America its hard to imagine a world without the war on drugs. A trip to Holland makes that dream seam a real possibility. We then carry that inspiration back to every nook and cranny of the world.

Thank you Holland for showing us the benifits and possibility's of aproaching drug use rationaly. :heart:

Fuck you ,to people who tell us what we can and can't put into our bodys no matter what part of Gods green earth we walk. :razz: :thumbdown:
 


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