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OfflineWhitman
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Registered: 03/17/15
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Help identifying strange cactus. * 1
    #21419332 - 03/17/15 06:12 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Hi everyone.

Recently I bought a cutting from a San Pedro, or at least that's what the vendor said. He also mentioned "peruano" I do not truly believe if it's a real San Pedro (I mean Echinopsis pachanoi / or Echinopsis peruviana), because it has a lot of heads on top of the apex, and I never seen it in that way before. I always have seen one single column or a couple, but not so many...

Cutting sizes may help: 5,5cm diameter and 15cm tall.
♦ Entire plant ♦




♦ Front View ♦





♦ Top View / Apex ♦




Thank you all

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Offlineelborito
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Re: Help identifying strange cactus. [Re: Whitman]
    #21419379 - 03/17/15 06:43 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

:nothingtoadd:

Looks amazing though.

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OfflineLSoares
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Re: Help identifying strange cactus. [Re: elborito]
    #21419414 - 03/17/15 07:03 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Looks legit to me. However, check carefully for pests, especially mealy bugs. That type of uncontrolled proliferation (which is, as you have noted, not normal) is sometimes the plant's reaction to a pest attack.


--------------------
Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.

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OfflineWhitman
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Re: Help identifying strange cactus. [Re: LSoares]
    #21419488 - 03/17/15 07:41 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LSoares said:
Looks legit to me. However, check carefully for pests, especially mealy bugs. That type of uncontrolled proliferation (which is, as you have noted, not normal) is sometimes the plant's reaction to a pest attack.



What cactus do you think is it? Do you think is psychoactive? Is it dangerous? (in a toxic way)

When I arrived home I found a spider, but not there's no spider now.

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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Help identifying strange cactus. [Re: LSoares] * 1
    #21419500 - 03/17/15 07:47 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Looks like the tip of cactus have been got some BAP-6 hormone.

Actually I tested that hormone to one seedling pachanoi size of 15cm or so.. It pupped like crazy, before pup even turn to mature, small pup forced new pups from fresh new aeroles and actually there just was lots of pups like that. First came few pups, then one spread to two from aeroles of new pups, then more and more offshoots from young pups not even big enough should have any offshoots.

I bet that have been just add BAP-6 to every aerole at the tip of cactus and later on result is like picture.. Well I can't say 100% sure but what I see what happen when grwoth tip is handled with BAP-6 hormone, those pups literally starts offshooting before they are even grown. Every aerole of small new pups had new pup on them and so on and so on. I would I magine plant looks like that after years.

I am 90% sure that's BAP-6 caused offshooting.. Because it really can cause very very small pup with small aeroles to grow pups to every aerole on the small new pup. And I just add the stuff to tip of one t. pachanoi cactus. That looks like much same thing have done. BAP-6 horone add to aerole not always just grow one branch, it happened to me pups keeps on comin so fast I didn't even know what was the actual real pup grown at first place from top of the plant. I have still the tip of plant but I used it to graft lophophora. Blue Myrtle stock died to dehydration, so I used my test subject cactus to give new stock to my loph. :lol:

Anyway, Pretty sure it's caused by BAP-6 why trichocereus at OP post is like that.

It is trichocereus cactus, active maybe´, also form look like it's really been had that hormone on top of it and now it looks like that. that's just like I imagine how my test subject plant would look like but unfortunatly I need grafting stock fast so I sacrifice it.

What comes to psychoactive properties, it's probably not toxic but we can't know how potent it is or is it less potent.. But seems very sure to my eye the tip of cactus have got plant hormone what causes the offshooting.. Name above: BAP-6, BAP, 6BAP, 6-BAP, whatever you like to call it.

Ingesting cactus what have received that hormone I have no idea is it safe or not. But that isn't dangerous plant. It's trichocereus sp form caused by external hormone. I am pretty sure of that why it looks like that becuse I've seen BAP pups keeps on pupping instead of growing just one branch. Highly plausible.

Correct if I'm wrong or if there are mutant like that.. But I am relatively safe and ok to say it out loud it's form caused by someone have add very much of BAP-6 to growth tip of cactus and all aeroles at the top as well.:yesnod:


--------------------

Edited by intelligentlife (03/17/15 07:57 AM)

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OfflineWhitman
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I think you're right [Re: intelligentlife]
    #21419602 - 03/17/15 08:37 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

intelligentlife said:
Looks like the tip of cactus have been got some BAP-6 hormone.

Actually I tested that hormone to one seedling pachanoi size of 15cm or so.. It pupped like crazy, before pup even turn to mature, small pup forced new pups from fresh new aeroles and actually there just was lots of pups like that. First came few pups, then one spread to two from aeroles of new pups, then more and more offshoots from young pups not even big enough should have any offshoots.

I bet that have been just add BAP-6 to every aerole at the tip of cactus and later on result is like picture.. Well I can't say 100% sure but what I see what happen when grwoth tip is handled with BAP-6 hormone, those pups literally starts offshooting before they are even grown. Every aerole of small new pups had new pup on them and so on and so on. I would I magine plant looks like that after years.

I am 90% sure that's BAP-6 caused offshooting.. Because it really can cause very very small pup with small aeroles to grow pups to every aerole on the small new pup. And I just add the stuff to tip of one t. pachanoi cactus. That looks like much same thing have done. BAP-6 horone add to aerole not always just grow one branch, it happened to me pups keeps on comin so fast I didn't even know what was the actual real pup grown at first place from top of the plant. I have still the tip of plant but I used it to graft lophophora. Blue Myrtle stock died to dehydration, so I used my test subject cactus to give new stock to my loph. :lol:

Anyway, Pretty sure it's caused by BAP-6 why trichocereus at OP post is like that.

It is trichocereus cactus, active maybe´, also form look like it's really been had that hormone on top of it and now it looks like that. that's just like I imagine how my test subject plant would look like but unfortunatly I need grafting stock fast so I sacrifice it.

What comes to psychoactive properties, it's probably not toxic but we can't know how potent it is or is it less potent.. But seems very sure to my eye the tip of cactus have got plant hormone what causes the offshooting.. Name above: BAP-6, BAP, 6BAP, 6-BAP, whatever you like to call it.

Ingesting cactus what have received that hormone I have no idea is it safe or not. But that isn't dangerous plant. It's trichocereus sp form caused by external hormone. I am pretty sure of that why it looks like that becuse I've seen BAP pups keeps on pupping instead of growing just one branch. Highly plausible.

Correct if I'm wrong or if there are mutant like that.. But I am relatively safe and ok to say it out loud it's form caused by someone have add very much of BAP-6 to growth tip of cactus and all aeroles at the top as well.:yesnod:



First of all, very thank you for your help.

That seem very possible to me. I asked in reddit too and one user talk about BAP hormone too. That's what he said:
Quote:

looks like a bridgessi that someone use BAP on a pup and its exploded with pup after pup





So problably you're right about this. Do you have photos from your experiment with BAP-6?

However, still not sure if it's safe or suitable for consumption, maybe someone can correctly identify the cactus.

Or maybe I better should get another one?

What do you think?

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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: I think you're right [Re: Whitman] * 1
    #21419688 - 03/17/15 09:11 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I said I cut the BAP plant for grafting stock... Didn't take pics from it. Never think about no one ask it.

But I have seen it my own eyes.. So far noone have said here I talk bullshit (too much)

Even tho I tend to get too much in to offtopic conversation.

I would produce such a plant and show you picture but it takes ~1-2 to get plant like your where whole growth tip have get BAP-6 hormone.

IT makes pups growing more pups at very small pups and I don't know any other instance where similar growth may occur.

It's just hormone forces plant to grow offshoots (usually very much and not so natural appearance, except sometimes BAP-6 may cause cactus to grow grow just one branch instead. Sometimes it happens every pup starts growing more offshoots from every aerole and result is like your picture.

Anyway, you don't have to believe me. It's trichocerus with BAP add to it's growth tip. It will cause that kind of growth when add to every aerole and growth tip of cactus column.

Even I have used to add pics to proof my point, but haven't seen much reason to take pics from all of my experiments.. :lol:

Just trust me on this. I can't say more what your pic tells me. Also I could not see towards future about someone ask picture of my BAP-tested cactus since I haven't told it to anyone.. Too much things happening to time to photogrps everything.

I would not have cut it but I need trichocerus for stock to save peyote for seed production and I decided to cut BAP tip off and gaft peyote button on it. Actually two blue myrtle stocks died over winter to dehydration and I used my BAP-Project plant and just used it as one stock.

I would wanted to leave it like that but I had no more stock plants and button needed to be grafted before it goes too dehydrated and makes grafting harder.. So BAP-cactus got cut off that tip with multiple splitting pups... I have to cut two trichs since blue myrthles didn't endure winter.. two out of four of those blue myrtle stocks died. And I turst more trichocereus as stock. BAP-testing wasn't so important for me, and I just saw that plant as potential new stock cactus to peyote button.

That's it!
:cookiemonster:


--------------------

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OfflineWhitman
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Registered: 03/17/15
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Re: I think you're right [Re: intelligentlife]
    #21420270 - 03/17/15 12:27 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Hey intelligentlife!

I don't think you're talking bullshit, actually I believe you, you explained very well and as I said, I think you're right.

In fact, I was asking for photos for my curiosity, I never before have heard about BAP-6, what it is or how it works. It seems amazing for me. In fact, I invite you to take photos from the entire process when you're experimenting, this allows you to visualize changes whit more accuracy from a scientific standpoint.

What I didn't know is the variety of the cactus (you know, I'm interested in some alkalines, such as mescalina, and I don't want to grow and take care of a cactus that might be dangerous and not psychoactive, however I'm lucky whith this strange cactus. Most probably is a echenopsis peruviana or pachanoi

I'm going to go back to the garden store where I bought it and ask the vendor what it is, the variety and if he used BAP-6 on it. I'll try to take photos from the mother plant (actually I don't know how to name the plant where the cutting belongs) and I'll post here the information.

Thanks again. See you later.

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OfflineWhitman
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NOT BAP, ACARUS!! [Re: intelligentlife]
    #21420885 - 03/17/15 02:17 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I'm back!

♦ New photos ♦







I asked the vendor if he used BAP-6 Hormone and he answered that he never used it (but he knows about it) and also said the offshoots were caused by acarus, so LSoares was right about telling me to check for pests. Even I didn't found anything on the cutting, probably they're on the garden store.

In fact, I carefully checked most of cactus from there and I noticed there are a lot of cactus with offshoots. 

Some of them are scary for me (have a carefully look onto trypophobia term on google images for examples).

The vendor also said that the cactus is an Echenopsis Peruviana or Echenopsis Pachanoi, but he can't remember which one exactly.

Sincerely, I have more doubts now than before.

Could this pest affect the cactus in a negative way? I mean, is it safe for entheogen purpose?

Which one is more similar to mine? Peruviana or Pachanoi?

How can I learn to differenciate it (when there's no flower on it)

I'm interested in read your opinions!

Thank you all.

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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: NOT BAP, ACARUS!! [Re: Whitman] * 2
    #21420942 - 03/17/15 02:32 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Welcome to the EG, Whitman! :sunny:

I would have said that is T. pachanoi


--------------------
●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


You must gather your party before venturing forth.

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OfflineWhitman
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Thank you! [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #21421085 - 03/17/15 02:52 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you Mostly_Harmless‼
Why do you think it is T. pachanoi?

What are the main morphological differences?

Thank you again!

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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: Thank you! [Re: Whitman] * 1
    #21421152 - 03/17/15 03:05 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

The rib count along with the strong centrals and weak radial spines are what tend to push me in the pachanoi direction.


--------------------
●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


You must gather your party before venturing forth.

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Invisible2shoes
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Re: Thank you! [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #21421852 - 03/17/15 05:06 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

If it matters much!

I'm with mostly on this one...  T. Pach.

I currently have a T. Pach. that is pupping at 2 spots after I hacked the top off to do a grafted. No BAP just physical damage caused mine I suppose.

Yours looks more crested than mine though I think!!

I'm coming up on shrooms right now so tomorrow Ill try to post a pic of my pedro which looks more normal than yours but pupping weird.

Until then :rockon:

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Invisible2shoes
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Re: Thank you! [Re: 2shoes]
    #21422185 - 03/17/15 05:37 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Okay.. Nevermind!!! I'm just high as fuck!

I'll sign off before I make a fool of myself!


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Offlineintelligentlife
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You solve problem by yourself. [Re: Whitman]
    #21423924 - 03/17/15 08:39 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Those are real trichs, no matter are they peruvianus or pachanoi..
If your vendor do not know it, no one does for real. Exept people can what they think it is but vendor is prior source who should know what species it is. And you have got answer from main source: it's pachanoi or peruvianus. Those two species have very less difference what´comes to overall variations of appearance and many experienced gowers as well can mix these species together. If you don't trust your vendor so much how you dare to think even thin of ingestion?

It's not any "wrong cactus" if you mean that you want mescaline. But how much there are  mescaline, you nee to brew the plant and ingest. But if pests is problem of nursery as vendor said. Only possible bad thing is possible pesticides in cactus. Some commercial pesticides isn't healhy to ingest and most vendors use systemic pesticides to get rid of pests Anyway your vendor have said you pretty much all you need to know and therefore cactus may contain pesticides, assuming vendor do not want to ruin own reputation, they will use pesticides. Most of them. Still pests occur in big greenhouses.

Good you went to ask about that actually offhooing is and share more pics since I think there are only one plant picture very similar to BAP-6 hormone growth if it's add to top of the cactus

There have been before some talk about bugs cause plants to grow pups like that. It's just not so common nor BAP-6 and later when I read posts you have actually got answer from vendor. Before that I saw only one cactu and it's not impossible vendor use hormones and do "mutant" (not everyone) and it's easy to do. First time I see pics from nursery with so big pest problem.

BAP-6 just came to my mind since it's not long time ago I take that my plant to graft stock so I didn't care of pupping heads because I need to safe peyoe button so I cut the tip off some over week ago so it's not so long time I saw similar growth I was myself caused it with BAP-6

I didn't mean to offend you anyway, english is no my native language, also used a bit sarcarsm, just saying because I had plant with pups grow pups and so on.

I just quess by the first picture compared it to my own plant I have caused similar growth to it.

I was aware about pests could cause that kind of behavior and reserved that 10% chance in case I may be wrong since there were already mention of pests. Said am 90% sure about BAP based of first pictures.

But you have got accurate and good information from vendor after my quess what is may be. So I jut suspect someone have done only one plant with hormone to sell it someone as special mutt.:lol:

You need to just trust your vendor because you post new pics and actually answer to your own question later with pics I haven't seen before I write my opinion of possibility. I didn't know nursery is full of these symptoms at evey cactus.

Like I said. I was at understanding you have only one plant from vendor and you wasn't sure about it. I don't claim it's 100% sure hormone caused and other pictures I see later. And you got answers from your vendor.

But your first pics seems so much it's done with BAP-6 and 9hours later you actually answered to your own question directly and got positive 100% information from vendor.

Vendors are sometimes unrealiable and it's very plausible to do trichocereus like that using BAP-6 without cut any off from it and only add BAP to all upper aeroles around. Before I write it I just saw one cactus and you didn't say there were lots of those.

I have seen here thread with cactus grow like that cause pests. And I have seen cactus grow like that done myself with BAP-6 (not much different at all to my BAP hormone cactus)

I just said I suspect 90% possibility of BAP and rest 10% something else because  wasn't sure is it BAP or those pests. (your later post reveals much more with more pics so itis impossible to say for sure and I didn't mean it's only BAP-6, nothing else.. pictures don't tell so much than vendor tell you)

I would say as well it's pachanoi, it's very variable species. T. Peruvianus should have more spines. Also wanting spines is very commong to t. pachanoi.

I am sure you can use it as psychedelic purposes, assuming vendor doesn't have used nasty pesticides what you should think if vendor said about best problem later what confirm two different point of views and separates who have quess right.

I vote also it is t. pachanoi more likely than peruvianus. But you should trust your vendor and don't bypass your vendor words and try see more correct answer here because main source should tell you those things, vendor have been honest and said it's pachanoi or peruvianus, or name "peruano" may refer to hybrid or it's some nick means it's from peru, you should ask also about that what it mean or do vendor have named it like that because vendor do not kow for sure. Most likely vendor know best where plant is from and like you show us, 9hours later you got answers to your questions possted by yourself and asked from vendor. If vendor say honestly to you about pests in plants, it's very unlikely vendor lie about species because honestly have said as well species is either pachanoi or peruvianus.

But it is trichocereus, no doubt about it, mescaline content you find out by ingesting the cactus, but make note to your self: if there have been pest infection, you woudl want to ask pesticides and make sure you don't ingest cacti full of systemic pesticides because seems garde is full of pests.

Nurseries have always pests at some point or another, as well as when collecting plants pest problems occur sooner or later. Mealybugs may travel in soil and hey are as well very good to stay hidden as big colonies, especially that kind of plants, it's risk to buy plant with pests always and spread them accidentally to your collection, also other bugs spread generally via new plants to your garden for example.

Keep new cactus always away from your collection to protect other plants so you don't spread them to your own garden and cause more problems. I have done that mistake by obtaining plant and find later on I have actually carry pests to my garden once because at first I just didn't realize to check them and sometimes mealies have arrived insdie tap root without even vendor have knew there are mealies so much I had to throw all plants away, also pest infected plants should avoid to carry with you and probably best to not buy plants.

I don't know do OP know but always when you visit nursery and buy new cactus. Always suspect possible pest infection even it doesn't look like plant have pests but they ae very good what comes to stay hidden.

Even very good reputation nurseries have sold plants to me with pests on them without even vendor know it, and when I have received plant(s) in mail and need to give feedback bout pests in plant So No matter of nursery, it is always risk to carry new plant and assume it's pest free because it's from nursey. Most likely nurseries are priority source of pests how they end up to your garden and sometimes they spread fast so sometimes one new plant may contaminate most of your garden and fight against them stats to get hard.

I have seen at first pics as well there may be bugs but didn't see reason to say it because it were mentioned here already.

Good you find out what's going on. But I would try to avoid to buy plant if vendor say about pest contamination. Basically it's risk always to cause bigger damage especially if bugs haven't been noticed. As well eggs may come with infected cactus even you don't see living bugs, so never move new plant(s) to your collection until you have keep it away from garden long enough to find out possible new bugs hatch from eggs and starting colony.

Mealies are relatively hard bugs, especially if you don't notice them early and don't suspect possible bug infection on new plant. Sometimes it's just best to leave plant to nursery if you suspect pests. It may turn out big mistake later, even it feels like you can kill bugs and make plant healthy it may still be bad mistake.

However, I would quess it's pachanoi cactus very likely. They tend to have that kind of spines, not all pachanoi plants are spineleess. Actually trichocereus plants have huge variations at appeaance, also climte have own role to what kind cactus will going to look like. Also spine size and number may drop/rise depending on light levels. Sometimes pachanoi cactus may grow big central spine one year, next year spine grow may change without actual climate changes at all. Or spineless trich may start suddenly grow central spines randomly.

There are some obvious things I quess it may be pachanoi, because if it's true what I've heard from australia, peruvianus shoul have two central spines, and seveal radial spines. Sometimes pachanoi and peruvianus spines difference is so minimal only central spine amount tell it. But I would try to focus to every characteristics of trichocerus and combine them together. So to get to eve some idea what plant you may have you should check many things: spines, ribs, notches, spine color, growth tip, etc.. Sometimes (like vendor of yours) have confused or forgot which one that cactus actually even could be. Also light levels should be taken to notice because lower light levels may cause total lack of spines or spine amount drops dramatically.. For example I got bridgesii from mid-EU. it had 2-3 spines per aerole. I my garden it grow only 0-2 spines with one long spine and one radial, some aeroles lack spines totally and most aeroles don't have radials.. Als here for example cuzcoensis spikes don't go white, they rather stay yellow-brown.. Section what have grown in nursery have instead pure white spikes. I have only one trichocereus what haven't changed it's appearance much at all.. Some seem they turn totally different cactus.

So far your vendor seems to answer very honestly to your questions so do not dare to ask and never bybass vendor infomation and the pick information piece by piece to get to know that species. But I haven't seen any peruvianus with so small number of spines. Also they seem to have all two central spines, anothe goes more dowards, and another littlebit upwards. Sometimes central spine size is same than radials, sometimes central spines are very clearly seen as biggest ones.

Pachanoi rib count is also almost same to peruvianus, 5-10 ribs.. (typically 6-8 ribs) some do not have notches at all and some have very clear visible notches. But these two species is very easy to confuse with another.. Sometimes pachanoi plant may have as much spines as peruvianus but they lack second central spine. I am not sure how realiable that information is but so far peruviannus plants have got all 2 centrals and pachanoi plants one so information I have read from australian forums seems to be pretty solid in general. Some talk about short spine peruvianus and some say it's just pachanoi.. But when comparing like pachanoi, bridgesii, scopulicola and peruvianus..

Most hardest way to see difference are just those pachanoi and peruvianus.. scop and bridgesii is very easy to ID relatively accurate without going wrong on with them. Pachanoi have still most variable spines, I have orange colored pachanoi spines on then, some have white-grey-brown-yellow color, some barely have visible spines and so on.. Peruvianus seems to have more like total black spikes. But as I said variations are so much these two species are actually too easy to confuse with another... compared to scop, bridge or cuzco what have very much different characteristics and easy to see without need to quess much at all. But ID based purely o rib count will not be so accurate. As it's vel known rib amount tend to change, with every one of these species I mentioned. But in general, bridgesii have rarely so much ribs, but it is easy to ID anyway.


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Edited by intelligentlife (03/17/15 09:22 PM)

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OfflineWhitman
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Re: You solve problem by yourself. [Re: intelligentlife]
    #21424594 - 03/17/15 09:55 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

intelligentlife said:




I've just read your answer right now and i want to answer you in the better way I can. English is not my native language, ¿No hablarás por casualidad español?. so probably I cant answer you properly. I hope I did not offend you. If it is, probably a lack of information from my side, sorry.

I asked the same on different online places, and I was just trying to know what happens to this cactus, if it could be like caespitosus, reproducing itself. Maybe some gen. mutation, maybe infected, maybe hybridization, maybe hormones, maybe i'm too dumb to differentiate a simple cactus. However, I mixed every possibilities and tried to get information, in a try to get myself able to discern.

Your answers on this thread enrich a lot the content. Your advices are of common sense and very usefull for everyone.I have to say that the better information came to me from this forum, not from the specialized cactus ones.

Maybe you can figure out I'm not expert of cacti. In fact I'm more interested in aromatic plants (oil, essences, natural soap, alchohol and more), so I like plants and I don't want to hurt them in any way, but I specially want to know if they can hurt me and the particularities of that.

Regardless, you didn't offended me. I don't think the vendor gave me accurate information than you. I question always. I do not think in ingestion, but want to know how this affect to the alkaline composition. I would like to understand how a bug can cause this, the same as hormones. I wonder if at the end, is a mix of pest and some kind of cacti surgery.

I enjoyed a lot  with his topic, and hope visitors have wondered as me the first time I saw "the monster".

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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: You solve problem by yourself. [Re: Whitman]
    #21425455 - 03/18/15 05:55 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

bugs should not effect the content of alkaloids unless they bugs kill them. but bugs effects to cactus sedoncary way, for example like I said nurseries may use pesticides and strong ones. systemic pesticides will be there in the cactus and systemic pesticidde use is just result of pests. so it's actually thing need to know about ingestion.. Today barely have been used o toxic pesticides but nurseries sell cactus as decorative so they might use sytemic pesticides and may end up to human body.

I woudl rather ingest pests and get protein from them instead of pesticides in plant (if need to ingest at all)

well we need to both communicate with language we are no 100% familiar. :lol:

peace friend, i haven't been offend at any point.:eskimokiss:


You got me totally right, I answer somtimes long explanations just becase lots of people may read them.. So even you know it, you got it I've written pretty much trough basisc so if anyone who read even some will get understanding of them. Didn't directly mean to point anyone nor anything. I try to write so that no matter who read it maybe can get information out from my posts. And those basics I never mean to say someone don't know them. It's not bad to write these stuff so people can read them in here public.

you seems to get my posts well, i write basics becausein public thread i think am trying to write the style it's general information and not directly pointed to anyone.
:sun:

If I don't know something, I like to read other people threads and usually answers are thereexampe other hobby I have, it's easy to browse forums and read other people text. I am trying to write that style no matter who read it got even some information out from them.

But overall, no problemo next time you may want add background story so it helps usually much better to give answers.. like i said i didn't know there are so much of those.  think it's nursery produced "mutt" because saw only one picture, I changed my mind asap you saw pics later on. Anyway at that point would be maybe better if you would have post those pics all to first thread.. So it would he been so ovious then.

it so easy to me to be afterwards so "wise" hehh.. I were wrong about it no doubt. My own test plant confused too much now later I think abut it
But you got my point, if question have less information or so. answers will be more complex or there are several different opinions. Ofc this is thing you may not have been thinka nd it's not necessary. Problem solved! I were wrong but I know that chemical and you can make your cactus to get offshoots like that with it.

We are cool! ...I am not here to make enemies nor trolling.:thumbup:

I am not myself any "expert" I just know few species littlebit more accurate, that's it.. And I use common sense. Everything I have learned is result of 2-3years of failing and being dumb. But since failures are easy to avovid when they have been done.. I have done lots failures.

IMO I just know few things more than new beginner grower, not anymore. I know very well one nursery and so on...  person there have told some secrects of the bussiness but I don't always say here about what information is from one nursery dude and what I hae learnd trough mistakes.

Just beacuse, it doesn't matter in long term. I may have very radical ideas and toughts about these species, there seems to be two trichocereus grower "groups" in general. Some believe pachanoi/peruvianus is same, some does't. Some do not believe there are so much trichs species and some believe every single mountain valley have own species.

If comparing to peyote, williamsii, they all mix pollen with each others and mostly in taxonomy are just "landrace" or "habitat plants"

With trichocerus is similar thing, they can be pollinated with another so I don't think they are so far away from another they can be call'd species, IMO they are just variants of ~3 species group.

It is true at some point botanist have got more reputation, more species they find. So I think there have been happened just race between botanists who find biggest amount of species and it show up on taxonomy because to me if feels like some people think every valley, mountain side and highlands have totally different species.

Reason I don't believe so much species exists is those all when grown from seed are so variable, they are self-sterile. But still all different taxonomy species accept anothers pollen so therefore I would consider them only to 2-3 group of mainpecies and rest of them are just variants or something..

That is just my observation and opinion, not anykind of proven fact.. But I do not afraid to say my opinion, even maybe later on may show up I am wrong.. But I take that risk I may be wrong.

So far not all consider trichs as long time naturally hybridized plants because people have moved them around andes. It's only species actualy have got legs from human and spread to places were it may not even end up without human. So human behavior in history have most likely caused so much different trichs.. Most likely you find potent one plants from old human build ruins at andes. It proofs cutting trade have happen in the past. And so on..

To be totally honest, I have said it here: I do not believe pachanoi and peruvianu are different species, IMO they are same species but different variant.

Astrophytums are in my mind good example how trichs may have started to hybridize. Most astrophytum hybrids and forms haven't been exists before humans have involved tot them. We can't know how much these trichs have been hybridized over the time they re plants humans have moved thousands of years adn even today.

I may be wrong with this or so, but overall view of trichocerei, seems they just have been mixed long time. Astrophytums is good example how much mixing different astros together cause new forms. Especially when human take care of things and grow seeds what probably never have been germinated without human help..
This may be happened with trichs in the past and seeds what normally without human care would never have grown to mature and spread pollen to environment. So I mean humans may have sown trichocerus seeds, take care seedlings grow and so on.. So whole hybridization of trich is pretty complex situation happened over long time. Other cactus plant seeds have not probably got human assist and only few out ot thousands seeds have grown to mature cactus. IMO Trichocereus plants have probably genetics from seeds what never would be there without human interest towards this species.

I say this to all who read this: that's my opinion and theory, not pure factual. And main reason I don't believe there are so much species what we have been told by botanist and taxonomy isn' always updated to modern day. It happens slowly.. Even botanists don't have same opinions. And they dare to say own opinions even it's not same tha another botanist.

So if these real experts who define whole taxonomy do not aggree on everything, why I should?

Trichocereus really seem to split growers to two different groups with diffent believes what have happened before.. So in that matter and in my mind I don't see any reason to believe only one point of view and ignoring another.

I dont't say others are wrong, and I don't say I am right.. But I say what I think and I questionable very much everythng and keep mind open if I find out my opinions are wrong. So I don't believe without a doubt even myself always.:lol::strokebeard:

Edited by intelligentlife (03/18/15 06:53 AM)

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