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OfflineLiquid Dreamer
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Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis
    #21398186 - 03/12/15 03:12 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I have heard about the presence of MAOI compounds within some species of Cacti including T. Bridgesii and came up with the conclusion that it would be potentially possible to make a Bridghausca without adding any other MAOI compounds such as Syrian Rue or B. Caapi.

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OfflineFaustoid
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: Liquid Dreamer]
    #21398397 - 03/12/15 03:54 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I have also heard of maoi's being present in phenethylamine containing cacti and am curious about it as well.

*monitoring*

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: Liquid Dreamer]
    #21398422 - 03/12/15 04:00 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

So whats in the "Bridgausca"?

Is it bridgeii cacti and Mimosa bark?


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OfflineLiquid Dreamer
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #21398477 - 03/12/15 04:11 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I was just assuming you would remove the Syrian Rue/B Caapi and replace it with Cacti not sure if the maois present are in high enough quantities to make dmt orally active

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Invisiblenewageshaman
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: Liquid Dreamer]
    #21398676 - 03/12/15 04:52 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I'd imagine it would work, I've been staying for awhile that bridgessi contains some short acting MAOi flavournoids (actually maybe they are maob not MAOI). I posted a bunch of info on cacti alks in ODD this week so if you have the time you could find it, I'd repost if I was on a computer but can't as I'm at work. The only thing I will say is these mao compounds in bridgessi won't be as effective as rue for DMT plants, but theoretically it would make a more interesting cacti trip. Will have to test this theory myself with som ACRB when I get some spare bridge.


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Invisiblenewageshaman
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: newageshaman]
    #21398696 - 03/12/15 04:55 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I want to add bridgessi cacti seem to contain less mescaline then people claim, this is why the mao compounds are interesting as bridgessi is always more consistent then other mesc cacti despite lesser amounts of mescaline per dry weight in comparison to Pedro and Peruvian torch.

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OfflineLiquid Dreamer
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: newageshaman]
    #21400494 - 03/13/15 12:39 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

What would the level of vomiting be?  Would it be anywhere as severe as ayahausca?  Also would it be unsafe to try syrian rue with bridgesii?

Edited by Liquid Dreamer (03/13/15 12:43 AM)

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Offlines240779
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: Liquid Dreamer]
    #21408044 - 03/14/15 05:07 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

It contains hordenine, which is claimed to be an MAO-B inhibitor* but i haven't been able to verify that. To put things in perspective, I've tried using the powerful MAO-B inhibitor, selegiline to activate DMT and I've literally gotten mild effects each time using relatively large amounts of DMT. In sufficient doses, selegiline begins to inhibit MAO-A,** and I used such doses, so I can only assume that whatever effects I got were a result of the relatively low amount of MAO-A inhibition that the selegiline produced. Furthermore, an unusually high number of naturally-occurring MAO-B inhibitors exists and the MAOI power of these chemicals was criticized on Bluelight: link. Harmine, the traditional DMT MAOI is primarily an MAO-A inhibitor.†

So it sounds like a pretty unpromising idea to me.


*http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/49824-hordenine-whats-not-to-love/


**"At oral doses between 30–60 mg/day (3–6 times greater than that used in the treatment of [Parkinson's disease]), selegiline has been studied for depression in several clinical studies and found to be effective. At these doses, oral selegiline significantly inhibits MAO-A and MAO-B in the peripheral and central tissues."

Transdermal selegiline for the treatment of major depressive disorder. Kelly C. Lee and Jack J. Chen. Neuropsychiatric Disease and Treatment. Oct 2007. 3(5): 527–537. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2656289/ (full version)  See section, "Oral selegiline for depression"


†Banisteriopsis caapi, a unique combination of MAO inhibitory and antioxidative constituents for the activities relevant to neurodegenerative disorders and Parkinson's disease. Samoylenko, V.; Rahman, M.; Tekwani, B. L.; Tripathi, L. M.; Wang, Y.; Khan, S. I.; Khan, I. A.; Miller, L. S.; Joshi, V. C.; Muhammad, I. Journal of ethnopharmacology. 10/2009; 127(2):357-67. DOI: 10.1016/j.jep.2009.10.030  DOWNLOAD

Edited by s240779 (03/14/15 05:25 PM)

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OfflineLiquid Dreamer
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: s240779]
    #21409381 - 03/14/15 11:27 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Cool, Thanks for the info.  So with that in consideration would adding Syrian Rue to the mix be harmful?  If not would it be worth it?  BTW if one were to limit the amount of vomiting from DMT+Harmala what would one do?

Edited by Liquid Dreamer (03/14/15 11:28 PM)

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Invisiblenewageshaman
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: Liquid Dreamer]
    #21412241 - 03/15/15 05:06 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I think harmalas from rue would be potentially dangerous with mesc cacti due to there stimulant properties, there are the odd thread about it if you feel like looking into it further. Be careful...

Hey Da2ra in regards to the mao compounds in bridgessi I was thinking perhaps they are more suited to pheneylamines drugs like mescaline instead of tryptamines, it makes sense after reading your links aswell as you having experimented with similar compounds with oral DMT. Perhaps if used with a low dose of mescaline they would activate it the same way as consuming dmt with harmalas from rue works. I find this extremely interesting as from numerous bridge trips I've noticed while it usually is more intense in low doses (compared to pedro), it is also a shorter trip then other mescaline trips (usually about 6 to 8hours of psyche effects after the come up, then dissipating fairly quickly after that time). If this is the case we may have a mao compound that's suitable for pheneylamines, this would be good as a lot of people find Pedro weak so having a easily available compound able to intensify it without any negative somatic effects (that I know of).

More research is obviously needed in this area, aswell as a maybe even a way to separate these mao's from bridgessi for use with other mescaline cacti (or synthetic pheneylamines like 2C-x or DOx)


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Offlines240779
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: newageshaman]
    #21412272 - 03/15/15 05:15 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

newageshaman said:
I think harmalas from rue would be potentially dangerous with mesc cacti due to there stimulant properties, there are the odd thread about it if you feel like looking into it further. Be careful...




No. Serotonergic drugs are potentially dangerous in combination with DMT + beta-carbolines. One Callaway and Charles Grob wrote an article on this, which I'll post later. However there's a report on Erowid where the serotonergic drugs, MDMA, MDA, and MDE were taken in combination with DMT + beta-carbolines.* Mescalin is pharmacologically similar to amphetamine and amphetamine is a dopaminergic drug. The following chemistry book warns against taking serotonergic antidepressants in combination with MAOIs but of amphetamine/ritalin/others it merely says that it the effects may be increased.

Drug interactions..include interaction with SSRI antidepressants, which can cause the 5-HT syndrome (see the discussion of SSRIs). The effect of stimulant drugs, such as methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine (used to treat ADHD), may be increased.

Foye's Principles of Medicinal Chemistry, Seventh Edition. Thomas L. Lemke, Ph.D., David A. Williams, Ph.D., Victoria F. Roche, Ph.D., S. William Zito, Ph.D. 2013.


I'll address the second part of your post later.


*Jezebel. Fun, Plus 'Ghost People': An Experience with Ayahuasca, Mushrooms, MDMA, MDE, MDA, LSD, LSA, Blue Lotus, Cannabis, Alcohol, & Opium (ID 24742). Erowid.org. Jun 24, 2003. erowid.org/exp/24742


Edited by s240779 (03/15/15 05:20 PM)

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Invisiblenewageshaman
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: s240779]
    #21412381 - 03/15/15 05:42 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

What I gathered from that is that mescaline may not be as dangerous in combination  with harmalas as it is often made out to be? What about the whole cacti though, I believe it was hordenine that is said to be the chemical in these cacti that when combined with harmalas can cause heart problems? Though in the case of extracted mescaline, harmala combos wouldn't cause these? Sorry if I've misread this I am very tired and stoned after a huge weekend of tripping :exhausted:


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Offlines240779
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: newageshaman]
    #21412396 - 03/15/15 05:44 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know enough about hordenine.

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Invisiblenewageshaman
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: s240779]
    #21412462 - 03/15/15 05:57 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Me neither though in all the threads I've read about harmala/cacti combos and negative effects it seems to be hordenine that they theorise is the cause of the ill effects. Obviously we need more research done on these drugs to confirm that, though I doubt anyone will won't to test the potentially lethal combo of hordenine/mao-i. Extracted mescaline and harmala is tempting though, as I agree that MAOi don't negatively impact amphetamine type drugs (atleast in the few trials I've done with anahuasca with 5 to 10mg dexamp).


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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: newageshaman]
    #21415381 - 03/16/15 10:59 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Good to hear another DMT/beta-carboline/amphetamine report. :smile:

I don't like amphetamines but I like things that spit in the face of MAOI rumors. :smile:

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Invisiblenewageshaman
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Re: Bridgesii + Mimosa Hostilis [Re: s240779]
    #21416847 - 03/16/15 04:46 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah same I think a few of the negative drug interactions with harmalas are well and trully just rumours, though I do implore anyone who is on any sort of medication to make 100% sure they themselves are safe in combining there meds with harmalas and DMT.

I know I was a bit skeptical on weather the low amphetamine dose would interact badly with my anahuasca brew(I don't think I'll ever combine more then 10mg dexamp due to personal reasons), fortunately it just made the trip slightly more stimulating and too me like an "alien" acid. Anahuasca brews alone without amps tend to be more sedating however and I could definently see some not being able to handle both the stimulation and extreme visuals.

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