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Offlinesweeper54
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Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act * 1
    #21391330 - 03/11/15 04:55 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: sweeper54]
    #21392213 - 03/11/15 10:53 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

:obama:


Hopefully this eases the public's sheer terror of a single payer system.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21392342 - 03/11/15 11:27 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
:obama:


Hopefully this eases the public's sheer terror of a single payer system.




Why would it?  The ACA has nothing to do with a single payer system.  The ACA just screws people and gets the shareholders of the health care industry rich.

I don't think the public (outside of a few crazy conservatives) has any terror when it comes to a single payer system, the people in power have never have let the subject matter enter the political debate.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: qman]
    #21392568 - 03/11/15 12:10 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Why would it? Because government involvement in anything makes people squeamish, and in a case like this we get to see that in fact the sky isn't falling, and things are turning out better than anyone predicted.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21393097 - 03/11/15 02:16 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Why would it? Because government involvement in anything makes people squeamish, and in a case like this we get to see that in fact the sky isn't falling, and things are turning out better than anyone predicted.




"things are turning out better"

Really?  Premiums costs are down, but guess what?  The coverage is worst, higher deductibles, so when people are getting sick today, they aren't using health care, they can't afford it.

Do you know how its "turning out better" for?  Insurance companies that collect monthly premiums and never pay out for the coverage!!

Anyone with have a brain understands that the single payer system in Germany, France, Australia, and others works just fine, health care in the US remains a FOR (high) PROFIT industry.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: qman] * 1
    #21393145 - 03/11/15 02:26 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I'm all for a single payer system. This is a necessary stepping stone. The insurance lobby (and Republicans) wouldn't even let the ACA keep a public option.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21393207 - 03/11/15 02:37 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I'm all for a single payer system. This is a necessary stepping stone. The insurance lobby (and Republicans) wouldn't even let the ACA keep a public option.




I don't see any stepping stone in it at all, the D's were also in the lobbyists pockets as well, they're both sell outs.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: qman]
    #21393317 - 03/11/15 02:59 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, but the D's sought out to expand healthcare coverage, and low premiums, and did so. The GOP just fought that every step of the way. Hardly equitable positions.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21393372 - 03/11/15 03:10 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Considering the Dems passed the ACA without a single Republican vote... they could have just as easily passed single payer if they wished to.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21393517 - 03/11/15 03:39 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Considering the Dems passed the ACA without a single Republican vote... they could have just as easily passed single payer if they wished to.





You don't remember much about the process. There were a lot of Dems that were afraid of the single payer system, we called then 'DINOS':picard:.

Add to that, O was caving at the least bit of resistance and gave away the farm without a real fight.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: sweeper54]
    #21393538 - 03/11/15 03:41 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

"Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate..."

Only a feeb would believe the lies that come out of this administration. Or any administration but especially this one who created the monster in question. If they lie about everything else why would they not lie about this?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: sweeper54]
    #21393577 - 03/11/15 03:49 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
You don't remember much about the process. There were a lot of Dems that were afraid of the single payer system, we called then 'DINOS':picard:.

Add to that, O was caving at the least bit of resistance and gave away the farm without a real fight.




Of course, I was just blaming the two biggest groups of detractors. I wonder if Hillary had won the primary and then the presidency, where healthcare would stand.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21393607 - 03/11/15 03:54 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
"Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate..."

Only a feeb would believe the lies that come out of this administration. Or any administration but especially this one who created the monster in question. If they lie about everything else why would they not lie about this?



Only a feeb would believe that the administration lies about everything.  They do a pretty good job with their estimates.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21393926 - 03/11/15 04:56 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
"Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate..."

Only a feeb would believe the lies that come out of this administration. Or any administration but especially this one who created the monster in question. If they lie about everything else why would they not lie about this?



Only a feeb would believe that the administration lies about everything.  They do a pretty good job with their estimates.



This isn't even the Obama administration, it is the congressional budget office.

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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21393941 - 03/11/15 04:58 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

That and the CBO is not controlled by the dems.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21394360 - 03/11/15 06:19 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
"Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate..."

Only a feeb would believe the lies that come out of this administration. Or any administration but especially this one who created the monster in question. If they lie about everything else why would they not lie about this?



Only a feeb would believe that the administration lies about everything.  They do a pretty good job with their estimates.




Again with the straw man arguments. I never said they lied about everything, maybe mostly everything. I suppose you believe the unemployment figures too? Of course you do, you are a  liberal feeb. If unemployment is truly under 6%, as you devoutly believe, then why is labor force participation at its lowest rate in decades? Why are most jobs part time?

We can't go back and check the figures on the aca because they keep them and just tell us what they want us to hear. We do know something about labor force participation which puts the lie to the figures.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #21394386 - 03/11/15 06:23 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

If they only told us what we wanted to hear, why did they give us ACA cost estimations that were higher than they turned out to be?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21394729 - 03/11/15 07:31 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
Quote:

wayworm said:
This isn't even the Obama administration, it is the congressional budget office.



That and the CBO is not controlled by the dems.



Exactly to both.  :thumbup:

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Again with the straw man arguments.  I never said they lied about everything, maybe mostly everything.



The Congressional Budget Office doesn't lie about "mostly everything" either.  :facepalm:

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I suppose you believe the unemployment figures too? Of course you do, you are a  liberal feeb. If unemployment is truly under 6%, as you devoutly believe, then why is labor force participation at its lowest rate in decades? Why are most jobs part time?



Why is unemployment so low?  You just answered your own question - because it includes part time workers and excludes discouraged workers.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
We can't go back and check the figures on the aca because they keep them and just tell us what they want us to hear.



What figures are you talking about that are kept secret???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21394866 - 03/11/15 08:04 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

>The Congressional Budget Office doesn't lie about "mostly everything" either

I said the "govt" lied a lot, but as usual, you change the subject a little bit, the usual straw man tactics. Got anything to back up your claim that they don't lie?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Budget Office Again Reduces Its Estimate on Cost of the Affordable Care Act [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21395130 - 03/11/15 09:10 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I said the "govt" lied a lot, but as usual, you change the subject a little bit, the usual straw man tactics.



Ok fine.  You meant "the Government" and not the CBO, so I apologize for thinking you meant the CBO lies.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/11/15 09:41 PM)

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