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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
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Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: mycopathy]
#21383938 - 03/09/15 06:43 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mycopathy said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: So, sea levels aren't rising, temps aren't rising, ice caps aren't melting, weather is not becoming more and more extreme, last year was not the hottest year on record?
If you honestly want the answers to those questions you will spend the next week researching. But you are simply spouting rhetoric with no intention of discovering the answers.
If you did the research, you'd know Stonehenge was right.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/09/15 07:19 PM)
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mycopathy
Stranger
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#21384157 - 03/09/15 07:40 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
mycopathy said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: So, sea levels aren't rising, temps aren't rising, ice caps aren't melting, weather is not becoming more and more extreme, last year was not the hottest year on record?
If you honestly want the answers to those questions you will spend the next week researching. But you are simply spouting rhetoric with no intention of discovering the answers.
If you did the research, you'd know Stonehenge was right.
As I said, many people want to believe the con for various reasons. I'm totally cool with that. So if you believe all those things are happening I'm not going to doubt your beliefs. I don't believe in Christianity but I don't go around trying to dissuade people who do.
As fellow human beings, I accept your right to believe in whatever religion or ideology you want. You don't have to keep justifying your beliefs, I totally accept you. In the same way that I accept the right of Catholics to revere pedophile priests, I accept your right to revere corrupt scientists.
But this topic is not a pulpit for you to proselytize your religious convictions. This topic is in the political forum to discuss how world government is going to respond to the continual revelations of dishonesty, falsification, and corruption in the cohorts of the Warmist con men. Please keep it on topic.
I totally accept you.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: mycopathy] 2
#21384332 - 03/09/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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The thermometer doesn't care what religion you are neither do measurements of sea level. Measurements are facts.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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mycopathy
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Stonehenge]
#21384341 - 03/09/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: The thermometer doesn't care what religion you are neither do measurements of sea level. Measurements are facts.
Amen.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#21384963 - 03/09/15 11:14 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mycopathy said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If you did the research, you'd know Stonehenge was right.
I accept your right to revere corrupt scientists.
So you believe that all scientists are corrupt? You're obviously not a scientist.
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mycopathy said: But this topic is not a pulpit for you to proselytize your religious convictions.
That's what you're doing. We're relying on scientific facts.
Quote:
mycopathy said: This topic is in the political forum to discuss how world government is going to respond to the continual revelations of dishonesty, falsification, and corruption in the cohorts of the Warmist con men. Please keep it on topic.
I totally accept you.
You haven't provided a shred of evidence to support your claims. You're just using this forum as a pulpit for you to proselytize your religious convictions that scientists are all lying to us.
Here's a few inconvenient truths for you:
Sea levels:

Temperatures:

Ice caps melting:

Weather extremes: One of hundreds of articles: Extreme weather becoming more common
2014 temperature: Google is your friend
Please show us the evidence that you're relying on.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#21385850 - 03/10/15 06:48 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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> You haven't provided a shred of evidence to support your claims.
No evidence is just as bad as faulty evidence or misunderstood evidence. You are showing graphs that cover a few decades to a century of data, trying to use an insignificant population size (number of data points) to extrapolate trends on a dynamic systems that stretches for many tens of thousands of years.
Imagine a trip from the east coast to the west coast in a car. After a few miles of driving, plot a graph that shows exactly where you will end up on the west coast. It can't be done; you simply do not have enough data to reliably predict where you are going to end up. You can create models that show most likely destinations based upon different roads, but again, you have no idea if the people making the trip will follow all of the turns in your map model.
I'm not going to argue for or against global warming; we do not have enough data to know what is going on. What we do know is that the climate is dynamic, that there have been drastic changes in the past, and that we are living in a time of accelerated changes. Would those changes be happening even if people did not exist? Most certainly. Would those changes be as extreme if people did not exist? Probably not. But to sit back and act like we know what is going on is not only shallow, but is also disingenuous.
> So you believe that all scientists are corrupt? You're obviously not a scientist.
I am college educated as a professional scientist, even though I do not work as one, and have read case studies of many scientists that gave in to corruption. The pressure of success, the need to publish, and the greed of money are powerful motivators. It is all too easy to find fault in data when it doesn't support the thesis a scientist is trying to prove. There are countless examples of this happening. To say all scientists are corrupt because of the action of a few is obviously a fallacy, but to infer that no scientist is corrupt is also incorrect.
There is a lot of money and prestige in the study of climate change. Scientists on both sides, the "truthers" and the "deniers", have been caught doing unethical things... disallowing opposing viewpoints to present data to intentionally altering data to intentionally using inaccurate data to support a claim.
> That's what you're doing. We're relying on scientific facts.
Scientific facts are seldom factual. Of all "scientific facts" that I have heard over the years, the laws of thermodynamics are the only ones that have stood the test of time. Even then, it is still conjecture based upon observation, and may someday be proven wrong. Claiming that something "must be true" based on "scientific facts" ignores all the science is. As a scientist, I question, I test, I observe, I conclude, I repeat; I seldom prove, and I understand that what I prove is only as strong as the experiment and the observations that I have made and should never be assumed factual.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Seuss]
#21385888 - 03/10/15 07:13 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > You haven't provided a shred of evidence to support your claims.
No evidence is just as bad as faulty evidence or misunderstood evidence. You are showing graphs that cover a few decades to a century of data, trying to use an insignificant population size (number of data points) to extrapolate trends on a dynamic systems that stretches for many tens of thousands of years.
Imagine a trip from the east coast to the west coast in a car. After a few miles of driving, plot a graph that shows exactly where you will end up on the west coast. It can't be done; you simply do not have enough data to reliably predict where you are going to end up. You can create models that show most likely destinations based upon different roads, but again, you have no idea if the people making the trip will follow all of the turns in your map model.
I'm not going to argue for or against global warming; we do not have enough data to know what is going on. What we do know is that the climate is dynamic, that there have been drastic changes in the past, and that we are living in a time of accelerated changes. Would those changes be happening even if people did not exist? Most certainly. Would those changes be as extreme if people did not exist? Probably not. But to sit back and act like we know what is going on is not only shallow, but is also disingenuous.
> So you believe that all scientists are corrupt? You're obviously not a scientist.
I am college educated as a professional scientist, even though I do not work as one, and have read case studies of many scientists that gave in to corruption. The pressure of success, the need to publish, and the greed of money are powerful motivators. It is all too easy to find fault in data when it doesn't support the thesis a scientist is trying to prove. There are countless examples of this happening. To say all scientists are corrupt because of the action of a few is obviously a fallacy, but to infer that no scientist is corrupt is also incorrect.
There is a lot of money and prestige in the study of climate change. Scientists on both sides, the "truthers" and the "deniers", have been caught doing unethical things... disallowing opposing viewpoints to present data to intentionally altering data to intentionally using inaccurate data to support a claim.
> That's what you're doing. We're relying on scientific facts.
Scientific facts are seldom factual. Of all "scientific facts" that I have heard over the years, the laws of thermodynamics are the only ones that have stood the test of time. Even then, it is still conjecture based upon observation, and may someday be proven wrong. Claiming that something "must be true" based on "scientific facts" ignores all the science is. As a scientist, I question, I test, I observe, I conclude, I repeat; I seldom prove, and I understand that what I prove is only as strong as the experiment and the observations that I have made and should never be assumed factual.
I couldn't agree with this post more if I tried.
I think it's crucial to understand that external motivators can, will, and do compromise the mission of science - because humans are doing science. Human beings are susceptible to all sorts of corruption and bias, no matter how much integrity their ideological vehicles of exploration (appear to) contain.
I'm not denying everything or buying into everything 100%; I think when your own ability to reason with data is overridden by a desire to appeal to/assume an authority figure has it right, you're in trouble (IMHO).
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Seuss]
#21386183 - 03/10/15 09:06 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Seuss, it may be true that we can't prove where this all is going. The temps are up at the moment but in a few decades or a few centuries they may go back down. I find that hard to believe without some changes since the drivers of warming are still there, namely co2, methane and so on. Greenhouse gases continue to be produced in ever larger quantities. How could temps do anything but go up in the next few decades?
Be that as it may, the evidence is incontrovertible that temps have gone up in recent years, the earth is warmer, sea levels are rising and ice caps are shrinking. I don't think you would deny that. So global warming is a fact though we can debate man's contribution to it. That's all that was stated, temps are up along with sea levels and other markers.
I'm not sure what you are denying.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#21386310 - 03/10/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's quite clear he was saying we don't have all the answers.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#21396030 - 03/12/15 04:04 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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The more years I spend speaking with my fellow Americans, the more I see how incredibly important adequate education really is. There's a reason that the number one institution the Right-wing wants to castrate is the department of education! It's easier to get a scientifically illiterate public to believe your nonsense. They don't understand anything about critical thinking and investigation, or the scientific method.
Almost every crazy conspiracy theory I know of is mainly espoused by right-wingers. I guess that's the only way to make reality fit their worldview. "The entire scientific community are all LIARS, except those employed by Exxon Mobile and Monsanto!"
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/12/15 04:07 AM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,310
Last seen: 27 minutes, 12 seconds
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: mycopathy]
#21396066 - 03/12/15 04:32 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mycopathy said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
mycopathy said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: So, sea levels aren't rising, temps aren't rising, ice caps aren't melting, weather is not becoming more and more extreme, last year was not the hottest year on record?
If you honestly want the answers to those questions you will spend the next week researching. But you are simply spouting rhetoric with no intention of discovering the answers.
If you did the research, you'd know Stonehenge was right.
As I said, many people want to believe the con for various reasons. I'm totally cool with that. So if you believe all those things are happening I'm not going to doubt your beliefs. I don't believe in Christianity but I don't go around trying to dissuade people who do.
As fellow human beings, I accept your right to believe in whatever religion or ideology you want. You don't have to keep justifying your beliefs, I totally accept you. In the same way that I accept the right of Catholics to revere pedophile priests, I accept your right to revere corrupt scientists.
But this topic is not a pulpit for you to proselytize your religious convictions. This topic is in the political forum to discuss how world government is going to respond to the continual revelations of dishonesty, falsification, and corruption in the cohorts of the Warmist con men. Please keep it on topic.
I totally accept you.
That was incredibly well-said, and I couldn't agree more. Real science is not performed in adherence to the confines of a mold made by any one of the multitude of interpretations of any particular ancient text.
I don't understand the mistrust of the scientific community. They cured Hepatitis C, created Penicillin, the internet, and the airplane! Oh, and let us not forget the latest and greatest innovation within the scientific community: the fleshlight, because when I find myself engaging in the fruitless and dissatisfying mental masturbation that is political discussion with an ignorant conservative... I'd rather have the real fake thing!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#21398886 - 03/12/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: The more years I spend speaking with my fellow Americans, the more I see how incredibly important adequate education really is. There's a reason that the number one institution the Right-wing wants to castrate is the department of education! It's easier to get a scientifically illiterate public to believe your nonsense. They don't understand anything about critical thinking and investigation, or the scientific method.
Almost every crazy conspiracy theory I know of is mainly espoused by right-wingers. I guess that's the only way to make reality fit their worldview. "The entire scientific community are all LIARS, except those employed by Exxon Mobile and Monsanto!"
You mean the department of liberal indoctrination. Did you know that climate computer modeling has absolutely nothing to do with the scientific method and if it did it would have been totally abandoned decades ago because its predictions never pan out? Talk about a failed science education.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: zappaisgod]
#21399393 - 03/12/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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So the fact that the states with shittier education systems have the most climate change deniers is evidence of a nationwide liberal indoctrination campaign? (and not simply that stupid people believe stupid things?)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21399424 - 03/12/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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The Ecstatic said: So the fact that the states with shittier education systems have the most climate change deniers is evidence of a nationwide liberal indoctrination campaign? (and not simply that stupid people believe stupid things?)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: zappaisgod]
#21399467 - 03/12/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: The more years I spend speaking with my fellow Americans, the more I see how incredibly important adequate education really is. There's a reason that the number one institution the Right-wing wants to castrate is the department of education!
You mean the department of liberal indoctrination.
Education = liberal indoctrination. It's all starting to make sense now.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Did you know that climate computer modeling has absolutely nothing to do with the scientific method and if it did it would have been totally abandoned decades ago because its predictions never pan out? Talk about a failed science education.
A model that's not 100% accurate isn't a model that the scientific method would say needs to thrown out, but one that needs to be refined.
Weather was one of the more difficult things for science to predict, but science has come a long way and can now forecast the weather with surprising accuracy 10 days in advance. But still not 100%. Climate is even more difficult to predict, because there are so many variables. A volcano eruption, for example, could significantly alter climate.
But even if climate can't be predicted with 100% accuracy, we can say with high certainty that human caused factors make the climate warmer than it would otherwise be, and we can continue to strive for better models using the scientific method.
But then again, that's probably something that only someone with a liberal indoctrination would want.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#21399494 - 03/12/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Fal, you are right about the weather and so on. Zappa doesn't even believe half the bizarre things he says, he just says them to get a reaction. However, education has been taken over by liberals and their agenda, he is right about that.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Posts: 81,741
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Stonehenge]
#21399526 - 03/12/15 07:49 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Weather?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#21399592 - 03/12/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
But even if climate can't be predicted with 100% accuracy, we can say with high certainty that human caused factors make the climate warmer than it would otherwise be, and we can continue to strive for better models using the scientific method.
Ken U follow a point? Computer modeling does not use the scientific method. It makes predictions that are never accurate. It should be scrapped until it works. Call me when it does.Quote:
But then again, that's probably something that only someone with a liberal indoctrination would want.
http://www.businessinsider.com/charts-show-the-political-bias-of-each-profession-2014-11
In order from most liberal
Entertainment 7.1L Academic 6.8L On line computer services 6.1L Newspapers and print media 5.8L
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: zappaisgod]
#21400160 - 03/12/15 10:27 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Ken U follow a point? Computer modeling does not use the scientific method. It makes predictions that are never accurate. It should be scrapped until it works. Call me when it does.
Again, just because a model hasn't been developed with 100% accuracy doesn't mean the scientific method isn't being used. Scientists continue to tweak the model with the benefit of hindsight to make the model better and better.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
In order from most liberal
Entertainment 7.1L Academic 6.8L On line computer services 6.1L Newspapers and print media 5.8L
. . . Tobacco 1.4C Oil, Gas, and Coal 2.2C Building and Construction 2.3C Agriculture 3.5C Mining 4.1C
The data shows what we already know. The more blue collar the job, and the less education required, the more conservative people in those jobs are.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,310
Last seen: 27 minutes, 12 seconds
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Re: Global Warming Data Scandal: how will world government respond? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#21400473 - 03/13/15 12:20 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/13/15 03:33 AM)
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