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OfflineDroz
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Can you agree that...
    #2137911 - 11/26/03 02:59 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Science is outdated. Spirituality will outrun it anyday. Looking through a machine to see the things that we already can see. But science likes to be 'exact' and to the 'point'. How boring science can be at times. Yet when you mix it in with the naturalness of your spirit. Then... well you get S&P.

Science can see what no man can see. Why do we even need to look to find the things we are searching for?

Peace,
Droz


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: Droz]
    #2137922 - 11/26/03 03:02 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Science needs to get current and merge with spirituality already, and stop being so damn stubborn and closed minded.


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2137959 - 11/26/03 03:15 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Definetly. I'm still in love with Mckenna... nano nano! :::cough cough::: I've got nano already! :smile:


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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Invisiblesunyata
nonexistentexistentialist
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 133
Re: Can you agree that... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2137966 - 11/26/03 03:18 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

The greatest scientific minds have always found much truth in spiritual tradition. Einstein, Heisenberg, Planck, Schroedinger... Many others. All of them understood that even our highest sciences are looking only at a world of shadows and that "mystical" illumination is the true source of Knowledge. It is only pseudoscientists who lack the courage to follow reason all the way to its root that never see this.

Contrary to the beliefs of most, there is no contradiction between science and spirituality. Most of our great spiritual traditions are extremely "scientific."


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Registered: 11/23/02
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: sunyata]
    #2138141 - 11/26/03 04:21 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Both are rooted in a sense of amazement of the improbability of all that is. Plain and simple. They shouldn't be competitive towards eachother, and have been too long in the West, but should start working together as they are the complementary branches of the same twig.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2138172 - 11/26/03 04:37 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

To the spiritual folk....


can you agree that...
""Science is concerned with status-quo reality while spirituality is concerned with relative, obscure and ambiguous manifestations of reality.""

Now i dont necessarily agree with this sentence but i want you to tell me your qualms against it.


More particularly: What do you feel about spirituality being relative, obscure and ambiguous; is this true? if you feel it is'nt, then why?? What's your definition of spirituality?


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: Droz]
    #2138184 - 11/26/03 04:43 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Saying something like that is no better or different than a "scientist" critisizing spirituality.

Why can't we stop critisizing eachother and start trying to see eachother's point of view?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisiblesunyata
nonexistentexistentialist
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 133
Re: Can you agree that... [Re: David_Scape]
    #2138211 - 11/26/03 04:54 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

David_Scape said:
can you agree that...
""Science is concerned with status-quo reality while spirituality is concerned with relative, obscure and ambiguous manifestations of reality.""

More particularly: What do you feel about spirituality being relative, obscure and ambiguous; is this true? if you feel it is'nt, then why?? What's your definition of spirituality?





IMO "spirituality" is far too vague a term to use with any degree of accuracy. It means so many things to so many people. Same with "science" when you really get down to it.

I am of the opinion though that you have it backwards, sort of. To me, what is truly "spiritual" comes from the revelation of the nondual nature of the universe. There is nothing relative about reality prior to human conceptualization, which is what the mystical experience reveals. Science, on the other hand, is concerned with reality as we experience it through the filter of thought. This filtering is the source of relativity.

I also do not quite understand the difference that you are implying exists between "status quo" reality and relative reality.

Perhaps I am not being clear, here. It's been a while since I posted in these parts.


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Can you agree that... [Re: sunyata]
    #2138273 - 11/26/03 05:24 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Science might mean different things to different people, but while there is no such thing as correct spirituality, there is correct science. Science is only about following the scientific method, nothing else.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2138441 - 11/26/03 06:41 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

I can agree that spirituality deals with the obscure and relative, but to my mind, that's reality; obscure and highly subjective. Science has this odd obsession with objective reality, and until it can realize (I'm not sure how 'science' can realize something, maybe I mean until the majority of the scientific community) that there can be more than one right answer, it's going to remain of secondary value.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Can you agree that... [Re: Panoramix]
    #2138485 - 11/26/03 07:17 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

More than one answer? Show me proof, and I'll accept any answer you've got. Science is nothing more than a common agreement upon how to prove something.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Offlinesuperblingtheory
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2138513 - 11/26/03 07:30 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Science performs the same tasks as religion to people of a particularly different mindset. They are both a way of improving the quality of ones life by answering questions that plague the common man and make his/her progress delayed and profoundly retarded. The problem of closemindedness lies not with either but with their practicitioners who disclude one in favor of the other because they have been taught that there ARE differences. Truly spiritual or truly scientific people can make sense of both without worry of conflicting ways of being/thinking becoming self- evident because their own minds do not allow doiscrimination- it is not part of their natural reasoning.


--------------------

Guts and danger, Airborne Ranger...


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Invisiblesunyata
nonexistentexistentialist
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 133
Re: Can you agree that... [Re: Panoramix]
    #2138540 - 11/26/03 07:45 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Panoramix said:
I can agree that spirituality deals with the obscure and relative, but to my mind, that's reality; obscure and highly subjective.




"Reality" is not relative. Only our perception of it, through the lens of intellection, is. So as we experience it every day, relativity is a fact of life. This does not mean, however, that there can be more than one right answer. It means that NO answer is right (or final) and that all truth-claims are subjective to some degree. However, the fact that everything on this "plane" of experience is relative does not mean that all truth-claims are equal -- some assertions can be relatively better than others. Science as defined by Muhurgle here is the attempt to use a method (involving "proof") to "pin down" the sliding nature of relative reality long enough to be able to say something about it. But these assertions science makes are rarely final, and are subject to revision based on new evidence -- that is, our current perspective. So they are relative too.


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Can you agree that... [Re: superblingtheory]
    #2138567 - 11/26/03 07:54 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

No, science is not religion. Science does not tell you how to live your life. Science isn't saying that it has all the answers, it doesn't answer the questions that really plauge mankind. There is no morality to derive from science.

Science doesn't concern itself with things that are unprovable, that is philosophy.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflinePositronius
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Registered: 11/27/03
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2139738 - 11/27/03 07:39 AM (13 years, 10 days ago)

"Science is outdated. Spirituality will outrun it anyday. Looking through a machine to see the things that we already can see. But science likes to be 'exact' and to the 'point'. How boring science can be at times. Yet when you mix it in with the naturalness of your spirit. Then... well you get S&P"

Spirituality is a personal affair, while science helps society in general. I dont like the idea of communal spirituality, I dont know what it is....but I get a creepy vibe from it. Maybe ive been brainwashed by made-for-tv movies about cults, but I dont like it.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: Positronius]
    #2139756 - 11/27/03 08:25 AM (13 years, 10 days ago)

How boring science can be at times.

Boring is in the mind of the beholder. It is an incredible diverse and fascinating field.

Please try to communicate your ideas to this group using spiritual methods and not science, i.e. without a computer. Ready - begin!

How people can use a tool to bash the self-same tool is completely ridiculous.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinesuperblingtheory
ghettogepetto

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 921
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2139847 - 11/27/03 10:09 AM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

muhurgle said:
No, science is not religion. Science does not tell you how to live your life. Science isn't saying that it has all the answers, it doesn't answer the questions that really plauge mankind. There is no morality to derive from science.

Science doesn't concern itself with things that are unprovable, that is philosophy.




Science most certainly does concern itself with the unprovable- that is fairly naive to project so certainly, friend. If science did not concern itself with what we viewed before as "unprovable" we would nopt have proven many of the most important things in history. If you remember it was once viewed as impossible to view sub- atomic particles, though we can now undertake such feats with ease. So before- sub atomic particles were "unprovable", but are now FACT. I think you're confusing your own theories with reliable facts. Unless you don't believe that sub- atomic particles fall under "science".....


--------------------

Guts and danger, Airborne Ranger...


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: superblingtheory]
    #2139891 - 11/27/03 10:40 AM (13 years, 10 days ago)

>> Science is concerned with status-quo reality while spirituality is concerned with relative, obscure and ambiguous manifestations of reality.

There is no reason to disagree with this statement unless either side is meant to come across with negative connotations.

Science is favoured in the West because scientific findings can be imparted to others without those people having to apply any effort to new learning, aside from perusing a scientfic journal. Many people raise an eyebrow to the mystical suppositions of certain religious traditions, then quickly dismiss them because the points made are unverifyable without a considerable sacrifice of time, heart, and energy.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: Ped]
    #2140020 - 11/27/03 12:26 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Well Science is based of fact or what is beleived to be fact and is happly ready to drop all beleifs if something comes along and changes them like new theroys ect. Now i belive science is part of spirituality for example the internet has helped bring communities together and share new ideas. It also been the source of info for psychedelics ect which has helped people evolve spirituialy. Without science we would still be thinking the worlds flat and that the sun is our god or something stupid like that.


--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Can you agree that... [Re: EvilGir]
    #2140091 - 11/27/03 12:51 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Exactly :smile:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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