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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: MajorDick]
    #22921760 - 02/19/16 12:55 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Ironed polyfill is stuffing...
I wouldn't bother with an array of holes.
Theoretically it would be the same, just really annoying to stuff.

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InvisibleMajorDick
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22921789 - 02/19/16 01:08 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20115107

Idk if we're thinking the same thing here..

Anyways. My daydream is more related to crafting a cabinet that would function like a stack of monos. Using spawn trays. Or i guess more like a stack of home fabricated tubs. http://m.instructables.com/id/HomemadePlastic/

But now i feel like I'm derailing your awesome thread so i digress.

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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: MajorDick]
    #22921821 - 02/19/16 01:36 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

We're talking about the same thing.
I consider ironed polyfil stuffing... Same material, same idea..
A cabinet full of trays sounds like a greenhouse.

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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22921826 - 02/19/16 01:40 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Dude- thank you so much. This is amazing and seriously I value al the input you've had in this community.

"I've got to science the shit out of this"

Mycology has given me so much, and you, along with others in this community have made helped to make it so.


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: TravelAgency]
    #22921829 - 02/19/16 01:43 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TravelAgency said:
"I've got to science the shit out of this"




Thanks.
Lol, some people waste their time designing automated monotubs that will never work.
I spend my time analyzing systems that work to understand why.

Fuck, I should be studying nuclear reactor thermal hydraulics...
I wrote this when I was studying thermodynamics..
I'm well beyond that and am still not studying.
ahaha. Fuck school. I just want my degree.
Gimme goddamit...

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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22921839 - 02/19/16 01:49 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Quote:

TravelAgency said:
"I've got to science the shit out of this"




Thanks.
Lol, some people waste their time designing automated monotubs that will never work.
I spend my time analyzing systems that work to understand why.

Fuck, I should be studying nuclear reactor thermal hydraulics...
I wrote this when I was studying thermodynamics..
I'm well beyond that and am still not studying.
ahaha. Fuck school. I just want my degree.
Gimme goddamit...




I understand but from a completely other perspective. This hobby has truly brought out the best science mind in me- my parents always thought I'd become a scientist- but I don't think they had a clue as to what kind

And hey, seriously and honestly- mycology is more the future than nuclear power is. From cleaning up oil spills, to creating vaccines, to providing cues, to tasting delicious, to parting from yourself, to experiencing something more spiritual than all the time you've spent in church combined- mycology is the way of the future- and I hope I can help.


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InvisibleMajorDick
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22921846 - 02/19/16 01:59 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
A cabinet full of trays sounds like a greenhouse.




...kinda... But more like a stack of decorated monos... That's easy to disguise, hide or cover when needed.

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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: MajorDick]
    #22921904 - 02/19/16 03:17 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TravelAgency said:

I understand but from a completely other perspective. This hobby has truly brought out the best science mind in me- my parents always thought I'd become a scientist- but I don't think they had a clue as to what kind

And hey, seriously and honestly- mycology is more the future than nuclear power is.




No, it's not. I'm rarely so blunt about directly refuting someones statements haha.
There is nothing more relevant to the future than nuclear power.

Quote:

TravelAgency said:From cleaning up oil spill



Mycelium and mushrooms are slow and inefficient at this...

Quote:

TravelAgency said:creating vaccines



Please elaborate

Quote:

TravelAgency said: to providing cues



Lol what?

Quote:

TravelAgency said: to tasting delicious, to parting from yourself, to experiencing something more spiritual than all the time you've spent in church combined- mycology is the way of the future- and I hope I can help.




And you lost me.. And I've spend more time on psychedelics than in church haha.
I don't see how mycology is advancing humanity in general.

Quote:

MajorDick said:
Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
A cabinet full of trays sounds like a greenhouse.




...kinda... But more like a stack of decorated monos... That's easy to disguise, hide or cover when needed.




Ok... But covering monotubs is effectively choking them off from FAE. That's fine if it is for a short period of time, but why not just have them in a room you keep people you don't trust out of?
This also begs the questions, why do you need to hide anything? Do you have people you don't trust in your house?
I mean... I know you aren't growing out of your parent's house haha.

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InvisibleMajorDick
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22921916 - 02/19/16 03:33 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Dammit! I was hoping for "how do disguise a monotub".. I was gonna say "fake glasses and a rubber nose".

...reasons... That's why.

I got to have a dedicated room once. It was pretty cool. I just don't like explaining that stuff to everyone who sees it.

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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: MajorDick]
    #22921972 - 02/19/16 04:51 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)



This SGFC was kept under a bed and worked well for my first grows. My roommates didn't even know it was there, and I had apartment maintenance coming in randomly (but not unannounced) and was never worried. I just turned off the light when they came so that there wasn't a bright ass light coming out from under my bed.
Air flow isn't ideal in any situation where you are trying to hide a tub.

Just keep the tubs in your bedroom if you have nowhere else, and keep people in your living room, out of your bedroom.

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InvisibleMajorDick
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22921985 - 02/19/16 05:13 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Oh fuf. I haven't fruited atop perlite since ought nine. Sgfg had been developed.. But i didn't know cuz i didn't have an internet connection at the time.

I try to do exactly what you said, but sometimes other things happen. Explaining it to girls is mostly what i try to avoid... Especially in the bedroom.

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OfflineSloppyJoseph
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: MajorDick]
    #22922046 - 02/19/16 06:09 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

This is an awesome write up, I kind of wish you applied this to a hypothesis on how to make a better design that pushed the envelope a little more. It seems though after your analysis that the square holes is the only major change you would make to the standard mono design, which makes a lot of sense. Simplicity is key and the mono is already a pretty great design I guess!

So what I got out of this very informative post:

1. Rectangular holes have the ability to control airflow out of the bottom holes at a more consistent level. This could create a more ideal air dynamic that would be most beneficial for the shrooms. This means however that holes on top don't have to be square, they could be oblong star shaped. Whatever. But why have just 2 large points of entry for fresh air? What if you now put a line of smaller holes, at let's say for arguments sake, 3.5" apart, lining the very top of your mono single-file. To attempt to create a more even airflow from top to bottom, instead of just having air coming from 2 points and creating stale air points on the sub surface because of uneven airflow.

2. That the fan can be your enemy in terms of air entering the bottom holes. I think I had this problem with one of my minis, now that I think about it. Fan was pointed at a wall to disperse its trajectory, but in a way that it could have bounced and had a clear path to those bottom holes in this mono. You can see which side the fan was on and how nothing wanted to grow there.


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: SloppyJoseph]
    #22922065 - 02/19/16 06:22 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

1. I much prefer an eye shaped hole.
Take the can you would use to make the normal round hole, and bend it into a eye shape.
This will give you the lower vertical center, and is much easier to stuff evenly with polyfill.
Rectanglular holes are annoying to stuff. Polyfill tends to leave gaps in the corners which leak air freely.

2. Fans shouldn't be pushing air through any holes. They shouldn't be pointed directly at the tub at all. The point of the fan is to circulate the ambient air.
Let the pressure differential control your air flow.
You control the pressure differential by stuffing the hole appropriately.

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OfflineSloppyJoseph
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22922087 - 02/19/16 06:30 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

The concept of the fan the issue, I get that it should only be used to create air movement indirectly. But I think the way I had it positioned it might have affected the tub adversely. So a physical inability to see the issue with the fans position was the problem I think, which was giving my mushrooms some fuzzy feet.


But what do you think about a series of smaller holes lining the top of the tub?


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: SloppyJoseph]
    #22922128 - 02/19/16 06:45 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Fuzzy feet are due to lack of FAE, your issue was more likely stuffing that was too tight, rather than fan placement.

A series of smaller holes would be fine, but more annoying to stuff.

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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22922171 - 02/19/16 07:03 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

:popcorn: One of my favorite threads. Thanks


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OfflineSloppyJoseph
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22922180 - 02/19/16 07:06 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

FAE is fresh air exchange, and fresh air can't exchange properly when fresh air is coming through both holes, right? So the 2 aren't coinciding in this instance?


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22922251 - 02/19/16 07:59 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: SloppyJoseph]
    #22922564 - 02/19/16 10:32 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SloppyJoseph said:
FAE is fresh air exchange, and fresh air can't exchange properly when fresh air is coming through both holes, right? So the 2 aren't coinciding in this instance?




Your wording is confusing me a bit.. Air will flow either up or down, depending on humidity and CO2 concentration.
It does not flow in or out through both the top and bottom holes. If it did that, then it would have to go through one side (left or right) and out the other.
The only time this will happen is if air is forced into one side (fan blowing directly at polyfill)

The pressure differential is immeasurable. It is minute, and constantly being forced into equilibrium.
The only time a monotub will be at true equilibrium with ambient temperature and pressure is when a substrate is dry and dead.
As long as there is heat being generated or water is being evaporated (it's almost always both) there will be a differential that causes air to travel either up or down.

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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: Themodynamic Analysis of Monotub Air Currents (moved) [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22925163 - 02/20/16 12:15 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Good explanation, thanks GreenRabbit


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