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Invisibleblew42
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Registered: 01/14/15
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Early Veil Tearing?
    #21369846 - 03/06/15 09:03 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

So I've only had a couple of shrooms grow so far, but that's just because there were already pins there when I took the cakes out to dunk them. However, one of my pins right now is tearing its veil REALLY early.
(sorry for the orientation probs)

(you can't see it, but the veil on the other side of that cap is tearing - and the thing is tiny!)

This happened on the other two mushrooms I mentioned before; the only difference is they actually grew at least somewhat to a decent size. My other pins seem to look fine, and they look like they hopefully won't do what this one is doing. However, just to be clear, is early veil tearing a sign of a problem with my SGFC? Or the lighting? I just redampened my perlite yesterday and I also bought a 16W 6500k tube and put it on a 12/12 cycle yesterday, so if it's because of those things hopefully those will take care of it. But otherwise, is this a warning flag for something wrong with the fruiting environment, or is that just what happens to aborts after awhile?


--------------------
:mushroom2: Have a good day :mushroom2::lol:

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: blew42] * 1
    #21369904 - 03/06/15 09:19 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

don't ever take pictures through a hole again ever.
take the lid off

veils don't tear early they tear precisely when they're ready to

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Invisibleblew42
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Posts: 264
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21370070 - 03/06/15 10:10 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
don't ever take pictures through a hole again ever.
take the lid off

veils don't tear early they tear precisely when they're ready to



yes sir!....sorry, I should rephrase my question. The veil is  tearing before the mushroom has reached a decent size...why is this?


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:mushroom2: Have a good day :mushroom2::lol:

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: blew42]
    #21370085 - 03/06/15 10:13 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

some mushrooms are small :lol:

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Invisibleblew42
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21370115 - 03/06/15 10:21 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Haha yes, but is there a certain factor that causes mushrooms to be smaller than they could be? Like I said, this kind of happened to the other two.


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:mushroom2: Have a good day :mushroom2::lol:

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: blew42]
    #21370123 - 03/06/15 10:22 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

too little FAE(probably not)
too much moisture(maybe)
genetic tendencies(maybe)

it could be environmental too the cake just decided that pin wasn't worth the energy (like an abort)

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Invisibleblew42
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21370140 - 03/06/15 10:27 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
too little FAE(probably not)
too much moisture(maybe)
genetic tendencies(maybe)

it could be environmental too the cake just decided that pin wasn't worth the energy (like an abort)



Hmmmm....could it be possible to mist/fan too much? I gnmerally aim for 4 times a day, but always at least twice.


--------------------
:mushroom2: Have a good day :mushroom2::lol:

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InvisibleHashish
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: blew42]
    #21370151 - 03/06/15 10:30 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

i usually experience small fruits breaking veils do to TOO much FAE. i stopped fanning as much, to almost none and im back to normal with larger fruits. just find the right tightness for your polyfil and let er be.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: Hashish]
    #21370156 - 03/06/15 10:31 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

you mist when your cakes need them not a set number of times a day, you might go in look and see they need a misting or they might not. so a set number is a bad way to look at it.

if your cakes are heavy and dense and sort of mushy they're too wet.

if they're super light and you feel like you could tear it in half easily and it would just come apart like that it's too dry.

it's a bit tricky to develop this judgement for yourself, you really just have to get a feel for it from doing it a few times.

you only fan after you mist. and actually you can skip fanning altogether and get the same results.

read the second link in my signature if you want to know more about the SGFC and how it works

Quote:

etc1time said:
i usually experience small fruits breaking veils do to TOO much FAE. i stopped fanning as much, to almost none and im back to normal with larger fruits. just find the right tightness for your polyfil and let er be.




you can't give too much FAE and in a SGFC FAE isn't adjustable anyway. he's using a SGFC not a monotub with polyfill.

too much FAE and your fruits just dry out, if you can keep them from drying out you can give them all the FAE you want.

and to top it off fanning isn't FAE anyway. fanning does nothing for FAE. fresh air is a constant thing, you have to fan every few minutes to achieve FAE from fanning.

Edited by Trusted cuItivator (03/06/15 10:32 AM)

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Invisibleblew42
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21370169 - 03/06/15 10:34 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

So with fanning, should I do it for 20 seconds? 30? If it's not crucial like you say how much/often should I?


--------------------
:mushroom2: Have a good day :mushroom2::lol:

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: blew42]
    #21370223 - 03/06/15 10:49 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blew42 said:
So with fanning, should I do it for 20 seconds? 30? If it's not crucial like you say how much/often should I?



use the lid, one sweeping motion should take all of 1-2 seconds.

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Invisibleblew42
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21370232 - 03/06/15 10:52 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Oh dang. The SGFC tek on here says 20-30 seconds...probably a bit overkill. Should I do it EVERY time I mist?


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:mushroom2: Have a good day :mushroom2::lol:

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: blew42]
    #21370241 - 03/06/15 10:54 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blew42 said:
Oh dang. The SGFC tek on here says 20-30 seconds...probably a bit overkill. Should I do it EVERY time I mist?



the only good SGFC tek is the one RogerRabbit made he invented the SGFC everyone else just tried to repost it but it's like the telephone game by the time someone made their SGFC 5 years later it was already half fucked up.

you're really just getting the mist particles out of the air that are lingering around, they'll eventually land on the cakes perlite and walls of the SGFC so you could actually never fan and it would be just fine.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21370247 - 03/06/15 10:55 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:


Fruiting Chamber
A SGFC has 1/4" holes spaces 2 inches apart in a grid patten on all six sides. 4-6 inches of moist perlite. No attachments made to it with any extra things like humidifiers. Optimally the SGFC should be in the middle of a room. No fans should be run in the room with the SGFC, but a cracked window is OK. A humidifier in your house can help to raise the ambient RH but don't put it near your SGFC put it in the other corner of the room if you do decide to run a humidifier at all. The SGFC IMO should have at least 6-12 inches of room from any wall on all 6 sides. This includes finding some sort of raisers to elevate the SGFC off of the surface it's on.

Misting and Fanning.
In general you'll mist your cakes until they glisten(yes they can even with the verm on them) and then fan right after the mist. You can mist your cakes directly and you should. Also get some mist on the perlite to keep it hydrated. When you notice the cake is no longer glistening you can mist it again and then fan. This occurs on average of 3-5 times a day. Don't worry about sleeping or being gone 12 hours. Just do it when you're around and don't forget about it is all.

Fanning is not FAE it's only purpose is to relive the high RH air so that the cakes can get a kickstart on evaporation.

FAE
This is a phenomenon (Fresh air exchange) in a properly built SGFC this is constantly happening. The perlite is naturally cooler than the surrounding air this moves molecules closer to each other as the lose kinetic energy. This creates low pressure which pulls air up through the bottom holes. As the air moves through the perlite it picks up humidity and keeps the chamber at or above 90%RH. This occurs naturally without the fanning and is why we like to have no fans in the room and is also why fanning after misting is not a replacement for FAE. FAE is having your PPM of CO2 below ~600-1000

Quote:

pussyfart said:
Fanning is not a replacement for constant FAE.

You would need to fan several times per hour.




Quote:

The physics of the shotgun terrarium are that evaporation causes a temperature drop, thus the air molecules are closer together.  This results in higher pressure within the air spaces around the perlite.

The substrates and/or lights provide slight heating within the body of the terrarium.  This results in relatively lower pressure.  This low pressure area above the perlite(high pressure) results in airflow to balance the pressure.  This in turn leads to more evaporation from the perlite, continuing the process.  This is why a shotgun terrarium handles FAE automatically.

The CO2 does not settle to the bottom.  In addition, the CO2 from mushrooms is mixed thoroughly into the O2, thus it travels out through the holes in the sides and top as part of the natural circulation.  It doesn't enter the denser air within the perlite and spill out the bottom.
RR





RH
You can't see RH, a SGFC should have no condensation on the walls, Condensation is caused by temperature differentials, if you have condensation you need to fix something. If you want to measure RH the bare minimum in quality for a hygrometer is a analog cigar box one that can be calibrated or a "synthetic hair hygrometer"

Don't get too worried and caught up trying to measure the RH in your SGFC anyway. It's far more important in a green house to measure humidity not so much in your SGFC,

When I put a RH gauge in my SGFC it doesn't read more than 90% all the time, and that's good A-OK just fine, don't worry about it don't measure it, your cakes are going to have a perfect micro-climate if you did the dunk and roll you'll have 99% surface humidity and that's all that matters, FAE is way more important and the RH inside the chamber is just fine for the fruit bodies themselves, if you have low humidity in your home just mist the perlite a bit more often to keep it hydrated it will work just fine and properly if you build it right and follow the damn directions to the T and not try to make your own uneducated guesses as to what improvements you can make. If you must then use the humidifier on the other side of the room or as far away from the SGFC as you can manage.

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Invisibleblew42
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Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 264
Loc: Wonderland Flag
Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21370255 - 03/06/15 10:58 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

blew42 said:
Oh dang. The SGFC tek on here says 20-30 seconds...probably a bit overkill. Should I do it EVERY time I mist?



the only good SGFC tek is the one RogerRabbit made he invented the SGFC everyone else just tried to repost it but it's like the telephone game by the time someone made their SGFC 5 years later it was already half fucked up.

you're really just getting the mist particles out of the air that are lingering around, they'll eventually land on the cakes perlite and walls of the SGFC so you could actually never fan and it would be just fine.




Interesting...so it has nothin to do with FAE. Alright, well thanks! I'll see how the rest of my pins do.


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:mushroom2: Have a good day :mushroom2::lol:

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InvisibleGuardian187
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21370357 - 03/06/15 11:22 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

blew42 said:
Oh dang. The SGFC tek on here says 20-30 seconds...probably a bit overkill. Should I do it EVERY time I mist?



the only good SGFC tek is the one RogerRabbit made he invented the SGFC everyone else just tried to repost it but it's like the telephone game by the time someone made their SGFC 5 years later it was already half fucked up.

you're really just getting the mist particles out of the air that are lingering around, they'll eventually land on the cakes perlite and walls of the SGFC so you could actually never fan and it would be just fine.




:whathesaid:

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: Guardian187]
    #21370370 - 03/06/15 11:25 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

if your cakes are good and hydrated sometimes I wait till I see pins to mist. if pins take more than a few days to show up mist every other day to keep it hydrated if your dunk and roll was successful you'll have quite a while till the cake would dry out with all that verm stuck to it,

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OfflineEntheoGod
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21370828 - 03/06/15 01:07 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

The only time I see small pins like this with the veil torn is when I had the environment too cold and/or too humid I'm not positive if this causes such problems but when I started fanning my SGFC more efficiently the pins started getting larger and once I had a better way to maintain the temps in the chamber the fruits started getting larger and veils waited longer to tear. Now most of the mushrooms I have grow to about 2 or 3 inches before the veil tears or starts to tear. I am still trying to improve my set up as well. Honestly though, from what I can tell it doesnt look like the veil is torn yet. I have had a few look this way and grow to be pretty mature, healthy mushies. Good luck! I hope I helped.:mushroom2:

Edited by EntheoGod (03/06/15 01:09 PM)

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OfflineOrganic_Magic
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: EntheoGod]
    #21370874 - 03/06/15 01:18 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Lol you took a picture through a hole. Idk why but that shit cracked me up. :lmafo:


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Invisibleblew42
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Re: Early Veil Tearing? [Re: EntheoGod]
    #21370952 - 03/06/15 01:34 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EntheoGod said:
The only time I see small pins like this with the veil torn is when I had the environment too cold and/or too humid I'm not positive if this causes such problems but when I started fanning my SGFC more efficiently the pins started getting larger and once I had a better way to maintain the temps in the chamber the fruits started getting larger and veils waited longer to tear. Now most of the mushrooms I have grow to about 2 or 3 inches before the veil tears or starts to tear. I am still trying to improve my set up as well. Honestly though, from what I can tell it doesnt look like the veil is torn yet. I have had a few look this way and grow to be pretty mature, healthy mushies. Good luck! I hope I helped.:mushroom2:



well i know it's not too cold; it's always between 73 and 79f. and i don't think it's too humid, there's no condensation on the walls (only the water that gets onto them when i spray my cakes). I actually think I had too LITTLE moisture because there were only pins on the bottom of the cakes, which is why I redampened my perlite yesterday. RH shoulde be around 99/100 right?


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:mushroom2: Have a good day :mushroom2::lol:

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