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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21368181 - 03/05/15 08:46 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
If ISPs don't want to bring our infrastructure on par with the rest of the developed world, they'll just have to deal with Netflix taking up bandwidth.

That's like my taxes going to roads, but since roads get clogged at peak times, I have to choose between paying more taxes to drive between 4-7 PM, or not drive at all.

We're already paying a lot more in America for a lot less broadband speeds, now instead of using the tax money we gave them up upgrade infrastructure, they're just gonna tell us to not use the services we like when we want.

Tough titties, those 3 companies. Either upgrade, or deal with the realities of your shitty product (that were practically forced to buy anyway).



What tax money are you babbling about?  Make Netflix pay for the bandwidth they're using.  They're the ones charging for it.  I never use it.  Why should my internet bill go up because they're fucking pigs?


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21368240 - 03/05/15 08:56 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

LOL why the fuck does everyone assume that everyone works the exact same way Zap?

PS: it's like if Microsoft said "look, we'll take a Kickstarter funded indie studio game, and we'll get an exclusive release deal on it, and toss them some money, so they'll take it, and they'll stay with us for a few years, and then release to the public and they'll love it eat it up. and they'll HAVE TO use our system!"

"um... people had to pay for the companies product they're releasing and have to have an Xbox and Xbox internet account, just because the game WE kickstarted with OUR MONEY, got signed to a contract with Microsoft? and WE who don't have an Xbox have to get one now to play the game WE helped fund in the first place?"

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 9 hours, 13 minutes
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21368455 - 03/05/15 09:53 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
If ISPs don't want to bring our infrastructure on par with the rest of the developed world, they'll just have to deal with Netflix taking up bandwidth.

That's like my taxes going to roads, but since roads get clogged at peak times, I have to choose between paying more taxes to drive between 4-7 PM, or not drive at all.

We're already paying a lot more in America for a lot less broadband speeds, now instead of using the tax money we gave them up upgrade infrastructure, they're just gonna tell us to not use the services we like when we want.

Tough titties, those 3 companies. Either upgrade, or deal with the realities of your shitty product (that were practically forced to buy anyway).



What tax money are you babbling about?  Make Netflix pay for the bandwidth they're using.  They're the ones charging for it.  I never use it.  Why should my internet bill go up because they're fucking pigs?




Same reason your everything law goes up when the cost of doing business increases. I thought you were a capitalist?

And yes, plenty of state and federal tax dollars have gone to telecoms to upgrade broadband capability. Comcast told the FCC that Americans don't need faster internet.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21368462 - 03/05/15 09:55 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I thought you were a capitalist?




Quote:

why the fuck does everyone assume that everyone works the exact same way



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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 9 hours, 13 minutes
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #21368466 - 03/05/15 09:57 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
LOL why the fuck does everyone assume that everyone works the exact same way Zap?

PS: it's like if Microsoft said "look, we'll take a Kickstarter funded indie studio game, and we'll get an exclusive release deal on it, and toss them some money, so they'll take it, and they'll stay with us for a few years, and then release to the public and they'll love it eat it up. and they'll HAVE TO use our system!"

"um... people had to pay for the companies product they're releasing and have to have an Xbox and Xbox internet account, just because the game WE kickstarted with OUR MONEY, got signed to a contract with Microsoft? and WE who don't have an Xbox have to get one now to play the game WE helped fund in the first place?"




Except you don't have to sign a contract to start a service connected via the internet. It's a utility.

That's like saying popular phone numbers should have to pay a kickback to AT&T because so much call volume goes toward those numbers. Instead of increasing and expanding cell towers, they're gonna take it out on that number (and the callers) for pushing their service to the limit. That's horseshit.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21368512 - 03/05/15 10:09 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

*bang* dang your blasted deductive reasoning, fool! :shakefist: (j/k)

but i think the point here is that, this isn't that. the contract for your internet is just that. and you're liable to be held to that contract, and in there it probably specifies that prices are subject to change, because if they have to put up with the fluctuations in usage between groups, then there has to be some compensating factor to make up for demand in broadband use. so you get a warning there that says to make up for that, you have to pay for that with more or less a flat rate, and since that doesn't work, they have to change that system. this is their way of changing that, i think.

but i don't know. i'm not an IT econ-crazed gaffoon.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21369909 - 03/06/15 09:20 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
LOL why the fuck does everyone assume that everyone works the exact same way Zap?

PS: it's like if Microsoft said "look, we'll take a Kickstarter funded indie studio game, and we'll get an exclusive release deal on it, and toss them some money, so they'll take it, and they'll stay with us for a few years, and then release to the public and they'll love it eat it up. and they'll HAVE TO use our system!"

"um... people had to pay for the companies product they're releasing and have to have an Xbox and Xbox internet account, just because the game WE kickstarted with OUR MONEY, got signed to a contract with Microsoft? and WE who don't have an Xbox have to get one now to play the game WE helped fund in the first place?"




Except you don't have to sign a contract to start a service connected via the internet. It's a utility.

That's like saying popular phone numbers should have to pay a kickback to AT&T because so much call volume goes toward those numbers. Instead of increasing and expanding cell towers, they're gonna take it out on that number (and the callers) for pushing their service to the limit. That's horseshit.



:picard:You do pay AT&T based on call volume.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 9 hours, 13 minutes
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21369911 - 03/06/15 09:21 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

If the ISPs want to be taken seriously that Netflix and the like are such unexpected burdens on their service, that service (and its cost) needs to be on par with the rest of the developed world.

Instead of recognizing that data uploading and downloading would increase exponentially (like the rest of the world did when smartphones and tablets and social media took off), our ISPs decided to pocket those profits, embezzle FURTHER the money the taxpayers gave them to upgrade, and then blame and punish the consumer and internet services for exposing that.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 9 hours, 13 minutes
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21369915 - 03/06/15 09:22 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
LOL why the fuck does everyone assume that everyone works the exact same way Zap?

PS: it's like if Microsoft said "look, we'll take a Kickstarter funded indie studio game, and we'll get an exclusive release deal on it, and toss them some money, so they'll take it, and they'll stay with us for a few years, and then release to the public and they'll love it eat it up. and they'll HAVE TO use our system!"

"um... people had to pay for the companies product they're releasing and have to have an Xbox and Xbox internet account, just because the game WE kickstarted with OUR MONEY, got signed to a contract with Microsoft? and WE who don't have an Xbox have to get one now to play the game WE helped fund in the first place?"




Except you don't have to sign a contract to start a service connected via the internet. It's a utility.

That's like saying popular phone numbers should have to pay a kickback to AT&T because so much call volume goes toward those numbers. Instead of increasing and expanding cell towers, they're gonna take it out on that number (and the callers) for pushing their service to the limit. That's horseshit.



:picard:You do pay AT&T based on call volume.




You completely missed the point.

You don't get charged anymore for calling a popular number (unless its a special circumstance like a 1900 number or long distance).


--------------------

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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21370052 - 03/06/15 10:05 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
LOL why the fuck does everyone assume that everyone works the exact same way Zap?

PS: it's like if Microsoft said "look, we'll take a Kickstarter funded indie studio game, and we'll get an exclusive release deal on it, and toss them some money, so they'll take it, and they'll stay with us for a few years, and then release to the public and they'll love it eat it up. and they'll HAVE TO use our system!"

"um... people had to pay for the companies product they're releasing and have to have an Xbox and Xbox internet account, just because the game WE kickstarted with OUR MONEY, got signed to a contract with Microsoft? and WE who don't have an Xbox have to get one now to play the game WE helped fund in the first place?"




Except you don't have to sign a contract to start a service connected via the internet. It's a utility.

That's like saying popular phone numbers should have to pay a kickback to AT&T because so much call volume goes toward those numbers. Instead of increasing and expanding cell towers, they're gonna take it out on that number (and the callers) for pushing their service to the limit. That's horseshit.



:picard:You do pay AT&T based on call volume.




You completely missed the point.

You don't get charged anymore for calling a popular number (unless its a special circumstance like a 1900 number or long distance).



And likewise you don't get charged more for visiting a popular website. The website pays more to host more traffic, just like 800 numbers that get exponentially more volume than personal lines.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 9 hours, 13 minutes
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: psyconaught]
    #21370154 - 03/06/15 10:31 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

The website pays for more server space, popular websites aren't forking out extra money to Comcast, they're paying for the server space themselves. If the ISPs can't handle getting consumers to that content, that's their problem.

Say Netflix is a shopping mall, a popular one. They build a bunch of parking lots to make sure the mall can handle the business. How the hell is the company that controls the roads to the mall going to charge/punish the mall and it's patrons because traffic is bad around the mall?

Either widen the road, or deal with it.


--------------------

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21370380 - 03/06/15 11:27 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
LOL why the fuck does everyone assume that everyone works the exact same way Zap?

PS: it's like if Microsoft said "look, we'll take a Kickstarter funded indie studio game, and we'll get an exclusive release deal on it, and toss them some money, so they'll take it, and they'll stay with us for a few years, and then release to the public and they'll love it eat it up. and they'll HAVE TO use our system!"

"um... people had to pay for the companies product they're releasing and have to have an Xbox and Xbox internet account, just because the game WE kickstarted with OUR MONEY, got signed to a contract with Microsoft? and WE who don't have an Xbox have to get one now to play the game WE helped fund in the first place?"




Except you don't have to sign a contract to start a service connected via the internet. It's a utility.

That's like saying popular phone numbers should have to pay a kickback to AT&T because so much call volume goes toward those numbers. Instead of increasing and expanding cell towers, they're gonna take it out on that number (and the callers) for pushing their service to the limit. That's horseshit.



:picard:You do pay AT&T based on call volume.




You completely missed the point.

You don't get charged anymore for calling a popular number (unless its a special circumstance like a 1900 number or long distance).



No, you don't get the point.  Netflix charges customers for streaming service that they send over ISPs.  Their service is a huge bandwidth hog and slows down everybody else's service.  They absolutely should have to pay more.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21370387 - 03/06/15 11:29 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The website pays for more server space, popular websites aren't forking out extra money to Comcast, they're paying for the server space themselves. If the ISPs can't handle getting consumers to that content, that's their problem.

Say Netflix is a shopping mall, a popular one. They build a bunch of parking lots to make sure the mall can handle the business. How the hell is the company that controls the roads to the mall going to charge/punish the mall and it's patrons because traffic is bad around the mall?

Either widen the road, or deal with it.



You probably don't know this but the municipalities always make the developer pay to upgrade the access highways for shopping malls.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21370464 - 03/06/15 11:46 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The website pays for more server space, popular websites aren't forking out extra money to Comcast, they're paying for the server space themselves. If the ISPs can't handle getting consumers to that content, that's their problem.




Heavy traffic sites actually do pay more to the hosting companies for more bandwidth compared to less frequented sites.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 7 days
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21370979 - 03/06/15 01:42 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Ultimately, the question is whether or not we want to keep the internet free and open, so that anyone can use it for whatever purposes they like, or whether to allow private companies to decide who uses it, how much they can use it, how fast they can use it, and for what expense.

It's very similar to the freeway system. Do you like being able to get on any freeway you want and to drive anywhere you want, or would you prefer that private companies charge tolls allowing wealthy drivers to avoid traffic and use shortcuts, while forcing everyone else to be even more congested?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21371032 - 03/06/15 01:56 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Ultimately, the question is whether or not we want to keep the internet free and open, so that anyone can use it for whatever purposes they like, or whether to allow private companies to decide who uses it, how much they can use it, how fast they can use it, and for what expense.

It's very similar to the freeway system. Do you like being able to get on any freeway you want and to drive anywhere you want, or would you prefer that private companies charge tolls allowing wealthy drivers to avoid traffic and use shortcuts, while forcing everyone else to be even more congested?



Another false analogy.  A lot of our best and fastest roads are toll roads.  Bridges and tunnels are tolled.  Further, commercial trucks have to pay way more in taxes to use the roads than passenger cars.

Netflix should have to pay more for their hoggishness.  Netflix, not the ISP, is slowing down the speeds for everybody else by hogging bandwidth.  If I want to ship a product I have to pay more because the shipping company has to pay more.


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InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21371070 - 03/06/15 02:05 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Fal still has his child like belief in authority figures. If they called it "net neutrality" then that's what it must be. Don't you think the fact that 2 fcc commissioners said the new laws were no good means anything? They have read the wording, unlike you.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 9 hours, 13 minutes
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21371311 - 03/06/15 03:26 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

^ talk about a fallacy.

One FCC commissioner approves it, two others disprove.

Obviously we can't take the opinion of FCC commissioners as fact.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 9 hours, 13 minutes
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: psyconaught]
    #21371315 - 03/06/15 03:28 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The website pays for more server space, popular websites aren't forking out extra money to Comcast, they're paying for the server space themselves. If the ISPs can't handle getting consumers to that content, that's their problem.




Heavy traffic sites actually do pay more to the hosting companies for more bandwidth compared to less frequented sites.




Yeah, to the hosting company, not the ISP.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 9 hours, 13 minutes
Re: FCC passes Net Neutrality [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21371328 - 03/06/15 03:31 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

No, you don't get the point.  Netflix charges customers for streaming service that they send over ISPs.  Their service is a huge bandwidth hog and slows down everybody else's service.  They absolutely should have to pay more.




No they fucking shouldn't. We already pay more in this country for slower internet. I'm not going to do that, on top of pay extra, or not even use the services I want, because my ISP refuses to bring their infrastructure into the 21st century.


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