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Offlinebackyardmagic
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Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no?
    #21363590 - 03/04/15 09:10 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

While I wait for my spores I put a bag of wbs in a bucket of water and boiled it, I plan to let the contam spores germinate by leaving it out for 2 days then I'll boil it again and keep doing this until my syringe comes..

Will the grains be free of endospores by the time I put it in jars and do the last sterilization?

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: backyardmagic]
    #21363616 - 03/04/15 09:17 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

no you have to sterilize the jars in a pressure cooker before inoculating them to kill off endospores and other resistant bacteria. Simply boiling them a few times before sterilizing will not kill resistant organisms or their resistant forms like endospores. 90m at 15psi(250F) is the standard but I personally do 120m for grain in quart jars.

Edited by Trusted cuItivator (03/04/15 09:18 PM)

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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: backyardmagic]
    #21363637 - 03/04/15 09:22 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Just one soak and boil should be fine, if you repeatedly cook them, you might pop the grains. I popped my last batch of wbs from cooking about 5 minutes too long.


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21363647 - 03/04/15 09:24 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
no you have to sterilize the jars in a pressure cooker before inoculating them to kill off endospores and other resistant bacteria. Simply boiling them a few times before sterilizing will not kill resistant organisms or their resistant forms like endospores. 90m at 15psi(250F) is the standard but I personally do 120m for grain in quart jars.



He said he planned on doing it until his final sterilization, which I'm guessing is with a PC :shrug:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: Achillita]
    #21363660 - 03/04/15 09:27 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

yes but the last sentence he basically asks if they'll be sterilized before sterilization

to which the answer is no, the PC cycle takes care of that not the boiling step before hand.

which two boiling steps will probably burst a lot of grain anyway

Edited by Trusted cuItivator (03/04/15 09:28 PM)

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Offlinebackyardmagic
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21363805 - 03/04/15 09:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I clearly said I'd leave the buckets out for a few days for the endo spores to germinate.. Killing endospores takes high temperature but killing it after its germinated is like killing common bacteria & there's no coming back for it

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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: backyardmagic]
    #21363813 - 03/04/15 09:53 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

in that time frame it's more likely you'll create more endospores than you started with.

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Offlinebackyardmagic
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21363830 - 03/04/15 09:57 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Create more?? How? I just want the spores based inside the grain to germinate so they die easy like brf

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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: backyardmagic]
    #21363846 - 03/04/15 10:02 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

why are you even worrying about it ?

the PC kills endospores.

maybe not every single last one but we sterilize for a window of opportunity.

we're sterilizing far above sanitation but complete sterilization would take hours even at 15psi.

we are probably getting between 7-8 logs of kill with an average PC cycle which eliminates nearly all viable organisms but something might still get through.(sanitation like alcohol wiping your hands is 4-5 logs of kill 99.99 or 99.999% killed)

soaking to germinate endospores is a hot debate. no one really knows whats going on since there's no real scientific study just peoples opinions so it's best not to get all in a worry about it.

bacteria produce endospores too, and given the boiling treatment and days sitting out you bet your ass the bacteria are going to form some endospores to try to survive the onslaught your giving them.

just hydrate your grains in your preferred way and then sterilize them.
all of us would be having huge problems growing if it were really that big of an issue to be concerned about. if 90M at 15psi isn't cutting it for you try 120m and if that doesn't work it's your technique causing you the problems.

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Offlineslartibartfast
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21364000 - 03/04/15 10:39 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I could be wrong but my read of the Original Post suggested to me that the OP was planning to just boil the grains several times (fractional sterilization style) in the hope that repeated boiling will sterilize the grain (it most probably won't of course) so I am assuming that no PC run was planned.
Instead of boiling the grain several times the op would need to hydrate the grains and then jar them up and heat them in boiling water a few times  as multiple boiling's would certainly turn the WBS to mush.
So question to the OP Are you planning to pc the WBS or not?
Slart


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Invisiblegrainbrain
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: slartibartfast]
    #21364542 - 03/05/15 03:43 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Are you sterilizing grains or making soup?  Pick a tek and try to follow it.

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Offlinebackyardmagic
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: grainbrain]
    #21364797 - 03/05/15 06:59 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Im actually doing a bunch of things while i wait for my syringe to come. I boiled it and it swelled up then i strained it and baked it at 385 for 40 min cuz there was so much grain heat wasnt bein dispersed evenly and if you can cook meat at least itl get good heat shock I AM GOING TO PC BUT it doesn't have a psi set up so it might not be as efficient the only time I did grain well was when I microwaved it first before PC but I have too much grain for that

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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: backyardmagic] * 1
    #21364829 - 03/05/15 07:18 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

you're going to PC it without PSI? then it's not really PC is it it's just C

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Invisiblegrainbrain
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: backyardmagic]
    #21364837 - 03/05/15 07:21 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

backyardmagic said:
Im actually doing a bunch of things while i wait for my syringe to come. I boiled it and it swelled up then i strained it and baked it at 385 for 40 min cuz there was so much grain heat wasnt bein dispersed evenly and if you can cook meat at least itl get good heat shock I AM GOING TO PC BUT it doesn't have a psi set up so it might not be as efficient the only time I did grain well was when I microwaved it first before PC but I have too much grain for that




READ THIS LINK and you'll have better results.  Best of luck.

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Offlinebackyardmagic
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21365184 - 03/05/15 09:23 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

No there's pressure just no gauge measure thing where u see how pressure there is

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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: backyardmagic]
    #21365847 - 03/05/15 12:16 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

it should have a weight or a toggle set for 15psi, you don't need a gauge most cookers don't have one

Edited by Trusted cuItivator (03/05/15 12:16 PM)

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OfflineItsScience
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Re: Ok will this ensure no contams in WBS or no? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21366040 - 03/05/15 01:01 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

This endospore discussion reminds me of a thread I was reading the other day...  Fahtster has a post about halfway down with some studies related to the whole soak thing and whether or not it actually affects contams, I recommend you give it a look.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10066877/fpart/1/vc/1


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