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jivangilad
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Registered: 06/02/08
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minimum spore amount?
#21361689 - 03/04/15 03:03 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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What is the minimum spore amount that can be efficient. I had a pretty small print, and when I prepared syringe, just a small amount of it entered the syringe by mistake, since some stayed on the knife. I have prepared 3 jars from it.
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bw86
Doesn't play well with others


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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: jivangilad] 1
#21361692 - 03/04/15 03:03 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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2 spores
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Bugler Boy
Cultivar


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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: jivangilad]
#21361694 - 03/04/15 03:04 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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2 spores are needed for germ. If you could physically see something in the syringe you're more than alright
-------------------- The mushroom speaks: '"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life... How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds"
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silverstem
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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: bw86]
#21361700 - 03/04/15 03:05 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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lol. true but for 8 jars u need 16 spores! but no i mean 1/16 of a normal print can make 1 syringe efficiently. u should be fine.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: silverstem]
#21361756 - 03/04/15 03:19 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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there's easily 10^5-6th spores per ml in a typical syringe.
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21361769 - 03/04/15 03:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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And that's a shit ton
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21361795 - 03/04/15 03:28 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: there's easily 10^5-6th spores per ml in a typical syringe.
I used to think this meant the smallest amount of inoculate should be enough so I used to do around 15 PF jars with less than 12 ccs but contamination rates on any sets I did this way were terrible.
Recently I inoculated a new set of 8 jars and used like 14 ccs total and I have mycelium growth in all of them within 4 days. Temperature is higher so that played a role there but with the latter method I always ended up with far less usable jars.
While spore counts can be high even if a syringe looks completely clear, I think attempting to use as little inoculant as possible to make syringes last longer is a fools errand. Use at least 1 cc still..
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bodhisatta 
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I had always stretched a syringe to at least 20-30 cakes. you're using your correlations as fact.
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Kizzle
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2 spores would work in theory perhaps but the spores need to be viable and compatible so very unlikely. A single drop of spore solution is usually sufficient to produce growth.
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silverstem
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Quote:
GreenRabbit said: While spore counts can be high even if a syringe looks completely clear, I think attempting to use as little inoculant as possible to make syringes last longer is a fools errand. Use at least 1 cc still..
i disagree. shooting more cc's is a fools errand. the more you put in the higher the % of possible contamination you shoot in... its very hard to get a clean syringes. all mushrooms need air to grow. all air has some mold/bacteria spores in it unless your grow is in front a hepa thats running 24/7 which would ruin your humidity... less then a cc is smart it saves and overall less likely to get spores/endospores into them.
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GreenRabbit
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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: Kizzle]
#21361858 - 03/04/15 03:41 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: I had always stretched a syringe to at least 20-30 cakes. you're using your correlations as fact.
You mean with G2G? And a sfd so only 1 injection point? Cuz thats about the same amount of shots considering PF tek takes 4 injections per jar.
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Kizzle said: 2 spores would work in theory perhaps but the spores need to be viable and compatible so very unlikely. A single drop of spore solution is usually sufficient to produce growth.
My issue with this claim is that if you only put 2 spores in there somehow, the chance of contamination before full colonization is WAY higher than just dumping in all the spores and spreading them through the cake. For practical purposes I think its best not to try to stretch syringes as far as possible to save money. It ends up being a waste of time and money...
If sterile procedure if followed properly and temperatures are kept up it should be fine with the smallest amount you can get out of the syringe sure, just trying to say that its not a good idea unless you are doing everything else right.
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bodhisatta 
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Registered: 04/30/13
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no i said cakes as in back when I did cakes
and why would the chance of contamination be higher? it would be less
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (03/04/15 03:43 PM)
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silverstem
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Quote:
GreenRabbit said: just trying to say that its not a good idea unless you are doing everything else right.
its a good idea either way.. the more spore solution you shoot up the more mold spores you shoot up. thats been proven... look at spore solution under a scope there is alot of mold spores in there..... the more you shoot up the more mold spores there is.
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GreenRabbit
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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: silverstem]
#21361938 - 03/04/15 03:55 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
silverstem said:
Quote:
GreenRabbit said: While spore counts can be high even if a syringe looks completely clear, I think attempting to use as little inoculant as possible to make syringes last longer is a fools errand. Use at least 1 cc still..
i disagree. shooting more cc's is a fools errand. the more you put in the higher the % of possible contamination you shoot in... its very hard to get a clean syringes. all mushrooms need air to grow. all air has some mold/bacteria spores in it unless your grow is in front a hepa thats running 24/7 which would ruin your humidity... less then a cc is smart it saves and overall less likely to get spores/endospores into them.
Not gonna argue this, the smallest amount that works is ideal. It's not like I'm saying to use more than 2 ccs, just that spores aren't so expensive that people should be trying to conserve them to save money.
And if using a syringe I have to assume it IS clean, at least initially, or every jar would contaminate within a week
Quote:
bodhisatta said: no i said cakes as in back when I did cakes and why would the chance of contamination be higher? it would be less
I've had jars germinate at 2 or 3 out of 4 inoculation points before and if this happens you are guaranteed longer colonization times.. Can't say it happened because of inoculant amount for sure but having the fastest colonization times is the best bet for low contamination rates. After sterile procedure of courseQuote:
silverstem said:
Quote:
GreenRabbit said: just trying to say that its not a good idea unless you are doing everything else right.
its a good idea either way.. the more spore solution you shoot up the more mold spores you shoot up. thats been proven... look at spore solution under a scope there is alot of mold spores in there..... the more you shoot up the more mold spores there is.
No argument again, its just that when I was trying to save spores and used as little as possible I ended up with the worst results ever.. Meh, I'll do some experiments with varying inoculant amounts and see if the same thing happens.
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Guardian187
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Agar... Problem solved
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takofako
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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: bw86]
#21362139 - 03/04/15 04:30 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bw86 said: 2 spores
-------------------- Sorry about spelling, english is not my main language My Grow Log and My Teks
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Val
Were just Marbles in a Cave...

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 120
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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: Kizzle]
#21362231 - 03/04/15 04:54 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said: 2 spores would work in theory perhaps but the spores need to be viable and compatible so very unlikely. A single drop of spore solution is usually sufficient to produce growth.
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GreenRabbit
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Quote:
Val said:
Quote:
Kizzle said: 2 spores would work in theory perhaps but the spores need to be viable and compatible so very unlikely. A single drop of spore solution is usually sufficient to produce growth.

Quote:
Guardian187 said: Agar... Problem solved 
Yea this is the only way 2 spores makes sense. Good luck waiting for that jar to colonize, and how do you get a single drop out of a syringe when verm gets in the needle hole and then it sprays too much??
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bodhisatta 
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Registered: 04/30/13
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a pf jar should germinate from all 4 spots. getting verm stuck in the needle is something you run into before you get some experience under your belt. using just a drop or two you should see germination from all 4 spots on a pf cake and use less than half a CC per cake
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Kizzle
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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21362718 - 03/04/15 06:33 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yea this is the only way 2 spores makes sense. Good luck waiting for that jar to colonize, and how do you get a single drop out of a syringe when verm gets in the needle hole and then it sprays too much??
I'm not suggesting he try to squirt a single drop to inoculate a cake. Just saying any amount is usually sufficient to cause growth. Spore solution of course can have vastly different numbers of spores in it but personally I've only had problems of no spore germination, even from a single drop on agar, with contaminated or very old syringes.
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mycomaniac1402
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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: Kizzle]
#21362984 - 03/04/15 07:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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1/2 cc in each is sufficient. And I make plenty of syringes. To be honest, it proably only takes a very small fraction of a med print to make a good syringe. If you can see spores, theres billions!
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jivangilad
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Thanks so much! I am relieved.
Edited by jivangilad (03/04/15 10:52 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: minimum spore amount? [Re: jivangilad]
#21365925 - 03/05/15 12:32 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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spore microscopy
I just made this thread so you can see just how many spores you're getting and just how little spores it takes.
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