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Offlinevermontshroomer
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petition to stop the fluoridation of our water
    #21357594 - 03/03/15 06:08 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

https://www.change.org/p/vermont-state-senate-stop-fluoridating-water
Please sign this petition^ to stop the government from continuing to put fluoride in our water

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: vermontshroomer]
    #21357955 - 03/03/15 07:31 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Fluoride helps prevents tooth decay.  What is the biggest argument against it?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinevermontshroomer
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21358029 - 03/03/15 07:49 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

fluoride calcifies our pineal gland which regulates meletonin. It also is proven to lower i.q especially in children.It has been outlawed in a few European countries.we have the right to not have to take in this harmful chemical every time we want a glass of water or take  shower.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: vermontshroomer]
    #21358162 - 03/03/15 08:23 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

:tinfoil:

Neither of the above are "proven".

Your second argument ("we have the right to not have to take in fluoride") has some validity, but that's kind of like the right not to vaccinate our children.  It's fine for the decision maker (parent), but the kid gets screwed.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinevermontshroomer
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21358246 - 03/03/15 08:48 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

well it does calcify the pineal gland and lower i.q. not to mention lower the function of the thyroid leading to depression it used to be prescribed to people with overactive thyroids

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Offlinethenutflush
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21360725 - 03/04/15 11:33 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Fluoride helps prevents tooth decay.  What is the biggest argument against it?




No

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: vermontshroomer]
    #21360960 - 03/04/15 12:25 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

vermontshroomer said:
well it does calcify the pineal gland and lower i.q.



This belongs in the conspiracy theory forum.  This has been researched extensively, and there is no more evidence of this than there is that vaccines cause autism.

Quote:

vermontshroomer said:
not to mention lower the function of the thyroid leading to depression it used to be prescribed to people with overactive thyroids



They prescribed higher fluoride rates than what is in drinking water.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: thenutflush]
    #21360965 - 03/04/15 12:26 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

thenutflush said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Fluoride helps prevents tooth decay.  What is the biggest argument against it?




No



You don't think fluoride prevents tooth decay?!?!?  What's your source please?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21361050 - 03/04/15 12:41 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Fluoride helps prevents tooth decay.  What is the biggest argument against it?





Here you go
Quote:

Fluorosilicic acid is a waste product of the phosphate fertilizer industry and is heavily contaminated with toxins and heavy metals (including the cancerous arsenic, lead and cadmium) and radioactive materials.


This substance is the waste residue from the superphosphate fertilizer industry, and about 70 to 75 percent of this stuff comes from a fertilizer manufacturing company.

Dr. William Hirzy, a former risk assessment scientist at the Environmental Protection Agency, recently wrote, "A recent peer reviewed study from Harvard shows that the higher exposure to fluoride that children get, the lower are their IQ’s. Even if drinking fluoride were to have a tiny, statistically insignificant effect on cavity formation, how many of your children’s IQ points are you willing to sacrifice for that slight hope?"

He also spoke of another study that revealed that the fluoridation chemical, hydrofluorosilicic acid, had enough arsenic in fluoridated drinking water to cause bladder and lung cancer costing at least $1 billion per year in costs in the United States alone.




http://www.organic-gardening-and-homesteading.com/fluoride-water-filters.html

Edited by sweeper54 (03/04/15 12:42 PM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: sweeper54]
    #21361162 - 03/04/15 01:03 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not saying that too much fluoride isn't bad - it is.  I'm saying the amount they put in drinking water is beneficial.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21361229 - 03/04/15 01:18 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

It's the
Quote:

and is heavily contaminated with toxins and heavy metals (including the cancerous arsenic, lead and cadmium) and radioactive materials




part I don't care for.

There's enough crap in this world we're exposed to, we don't need it added to the water.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: sweeper54]
    #21361344 - 03/04/15 01:44 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Still, there is no evidence that the levels used in drinking water is harmful, but there is clear evidence that fluoride helps prevent tooth decay.

I really don't care much one way or another to argue more, I'm just saying that the small amounts added to drinking water hasn't been proven to be harmful.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21361685 - 03/04/15 03:02 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

You're right, and it's not going away anytime soon, people are making far too on their waste product.

I drink untreated well water and a full set of teeth.

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InvisibleJayZ Morgan
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21361770 - 03/04/15 03:21 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Fluoride helps prevents tooth decay.  What is the biggest argument against it?





Europe doesn't put Fluroide in their water , or in their toothpaste,  yet Europeans have horrible teeth.

If we didnt have Fluroide in water or toothpaste, we'd be paying Dentists extra money for dental support we could have got at home by not listening to the psudo-science , hippy bullshit .



falcon knows what he's talking about and is usually correct on intelegent mAtters and the bottom line, there is more evidence supporting Fluroides prevention of tooth decay. My mom even said so , and mothers know best.



I doubt the EpA whos a government supported agency wants their customers(the people)  harmed, brainwashed , or manipulated , because corruption is not what the EPA is about.


The EPA isn't a corporation and doesn't want to fuck you.



when I first watched the youtube video talking about how Fluoride decalcifies the pineal gland. I thought  whoopty doo, big deal , I've been drinking Fluroide water my whole life and my dreams Are clear , awesome , and interesting .

Where do people get the Impression Fluroide is bad ?

These new age believers(non believers) are reading pseudo-science books and thinking what the authors are writing about is factual.. Just because one group of people sells an idea , doesn't mean its anything more than an idea that sounds convincing.



I have a bunch of young , new age friends who think Fluroide is bad for human consumption , but they also beleive the vegan lifestyle is super healthy and get all their information from a book.

People make money off these books , their ideas are all profit ,IMO its propaganda.


--------------------





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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: JayZ Morgan]
    #21361881 - 03/04/15 03:45 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

There is tons of evidence against fluoride, but the mods on this forum think anything that the dems like is wonderful so my thread full of facts, link, and info got sent to the conspiracy forum. Because anyone who thinks fluoride is dangerous must be a nut who believes in conspiracies and wears a tinfoil hat. I am not surprised to see fal on the wrong side of things again.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21362090 - 03/04/15 04:21 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Stone now that you've wade in they probable will move it, again.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: sweeper54]
    #21362311 - 03/04/15 05:16 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
Stone now that you've wade in they probable will move it, again.




Yeah, they hate the truth so they will do anything to suppress it.

Mainly the reason is that if they admitted it was toxic they would have to change their habits and maybe spend more money so denial is cheaper and easier.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21362619 - 03/04/15 06:13 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
There is tons of evidence against fluoride



Again, while fluoride in large amounts is probably harmful, the amount they add to drinking water is not, and is beneficial.

This topic is like global warming.  99+% of experts say man made warming is happening, but large numbers of non-experts side with the tiny minority for whatever reason.  Same thing here.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
but the mods on this forum think anything that the dems like is wonderful so my thread full of facts, link, and info got sent to the conspiracy forum.



This isn't about democrats vs republicans.  It's about real science vs pseudoscience.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Because anyone who thinks fluoride is dangerous must be a nut who believes in conspiracies and wears a tinfoil hat. I am not surprised to see fal on the wrong side of things again.



Again, you are correct that it is dangerous in large amounts.  But that's not what the OP is about.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinevermontshroomer
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21362722 - 03/04/15 06:34 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
There is tons of evidence against fluoride



Again, while fluoride in large amounts is probably harmful, the amount they add to drinking water is not, and is beneficial.

This topic is like global warming.  99+% of experts say man made warming is happening, but large numbers of non-experts side with the tiny minority for whatever reason.  Same thing here.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
but the mods on this forum think anything that the dems like is wonderful so my thread full of facts, link, and info got sent to the conspiracy forum.



This isn't about democrats vs republicans.  It's about real science vs pseudoscience.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Because anyone who thinks fluoride is dangerous must be a nut who believes in conspiracies and wears a tinfoil hat. I am not surprised to see fal on the wrong side of things again.



Again, you are correct that it is dangerous in large amounts.  But that's not what the OP is about.



http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/
read this, also all of the studies have been done on rats which absorb fluoride not nearly as much as humans

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: petition to stop the fluoridation of our water [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21362777 - 03/04/15 06:41 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Fal, if you really want to discuss it on a science basis, and not on a faith basis as is your usual practice, then why haven't you read the thread in the conspiracies forum that I started? It has reams of links and information I and others have posted

On the other hand, we have a professional troll like zappa who chimes in, knows nothing, can't analyze or discuss the data but attempts to derail the discussion. We have pris who told us a DO is not a medical doctor and some other equally odd things. If you join in, will you be one of them or will you discuss it rationally?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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