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hamloaf
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The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. 1
#21360754 - 03/04/15 11:39 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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IME, there is definitely a notable difference between fresh and dehydrated mushrooms in the ways of how they psycho-actively affect me. A lot of the older heads and hands, imo, hold true to the fact that potency is lost during the dehydration process. I can kind of subscribe to that. I just think that fresher psilocybin is a better quality product than psilocybin that's been ran through the dehydration process. Still I accept that not enough research into this topic, scientifically, has been done to warrant any kind of end-all be-all answer to the question of whether or not psilocybin is actually lost as a result of the fruits being ran through a dehydration process, so I was wondering what you alls experiences, and, studies and research is and how it sways your opinion(s) over the subject.
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: hamloaf]
#21360789 - 03/04/15 11:46 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Is it possible to tell until we can actually measure the amounts in each? I think it will happen, sooner than later hopefully. I'm with you though, I've noticed 2g of fresh is more intense than 2g dried. I start feeling the effects sooner as well.
Maybe it's just all in our heads though too
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Helnak
Student

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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
#21360870 - 03/04/15 12:07 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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The drying process, as far as I know, destroys most psilocin molecules, but the psilocybin remains intact.
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Dilated
KB Cubensis Fanaticus



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
#21360935 - 03/04/15 12:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said:
Is it possible to tell until we can actually measure the amounts in each? I think it will happen, sooner than later hopefully. I'm with you though, I've noticed 2g of fresh is more intense than 2g dried. I start feeling the effects sooner as well.
Maybe it's just all in our heads though too 
2g of fresh is more intense than 2g dried? And you feel effects sooner as well? That's not enough to make a small animal feel anything... I'm confused by this....
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xmdka
NOOB4Life


Registered: 04/30/14
Posts: 1,021
Loc: Italia
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Dilated]
#21360943 - 03/04/15 12:23 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dilated said:
Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said:
Is it possible to tell until we can actually measure the amounts in each? I think it will happen, sooner than later hopefully. I'm with you though, I've noticed 2g of fresh is more intense than 2g dried. I start feeling the effects sooner as well.
Maybe it's just all in our heads though too 
2g of fresh is more intense than 2g dried? And you feel effects sooner as well? That's not enough to make a small animal feel anything... I'm confused by this....
I think he means 20g fresh vs 2g dried.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Dilated]
#21360945 - 03/04/15 12:23 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think he meant 20g of fresh vs 2g of dry....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
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cronicr



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Dilated]
#21360953 - 03/04/15 12:24 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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i would think more would be lost if ya simply stuck a fan on it then tossed it in a dehydrator but i've always been pleased with mine so i'm just posting to be a part of the thread
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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disney_psychedelic
cipherist



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: PussyFart]
#21360996 - 03/04/15 12:32 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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from what I can gather from the research I have done concerning extraction of actives, psilocybin is a very hardy molecule and can put up with a fair deal of abuse, but psilocin is as delicate as pure crystal lsd and will oxidize rapidly if exposed to heat or strong light so it must be handled at low temperature and in low light (red/yellow light darkroom conditions). analytical research has found that there are equal amounts of psilocybin and psilocin in cubensis, its possible that harsh drying methods using any form of heat could very well destroy all of the psilocin but leave the psilocybin untouched, thereby reducing the alkaloid content to one half of its original amount.
this is why I want to build a forced cool air dryer someday
-------------------- I try to avoid alcohol... when I can.
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Dilated
KB Cubensis Fanaticus



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: disney_psychedelic]
#21361022 - 03/04/15 12:36 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Exposed to strong light AFTER harvesting, causes the break down of psilocin?
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disney_psychedelic
cipherist



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Dilated]
#21361288 - 03/04/15 01:31 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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the reference to strong light degrading psilocin was in reference to handling procedures for pure crystalline psilocin after extraction, principally I was mentioning it to describe how delicate and prone to oxidative degradation it is
-------------------- I try to avoid alcohol... when I can.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: disney_psychedelic]
#21361370 - 03/04/15 01:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've only tried fresh a few times, not enough to make any claims except they made me sick to my stomach. The worst shroom gurgles I've ever had. I'll never eat them fresh again.
-------------------- The Basics
A little civility goes a long way
The Noob Forum
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silverstem
Caps & Stems


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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: disney_psychedelic]
#21361380 - 03/04/15 01:55 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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man i feel like people post about degrading potency due to heat every week.... i dont notice any difference...
--------------------
Shroomery needs a gun forum!!!!!!!!! CAN WE HAVE ONE?????
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Guardian187
Neophyte


Registered: 11/29/14
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: SpitballJedi]
#21361387 - 03/04/15 01:56 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: I've only tried fresh a few times, not enough to make any claims except they made me sick to my stomach. The worst shroom gurgles I've ever had. I'll never eat them fresh again.
Really? Sad. Have you tried a fresh tea recipe?
I plan to try some fresh and then different drying methods. It will take a while though, and is a pretty subjective approach. Obviously with an isolate.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Guardian187]
#21361437 - 03/04/15 02:05 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes. I like tea.
-------------------- The Basics
A little civility goes a long way
The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: SpitballJedi]
#21361566 - 03/04/15 02:33 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Shit yeah I meant 20g fresh to 2g dry, my bad!
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Algo
Backstrap Fever


Registered: 12/15/14
Posts: 3,857
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Helnak]
#21361585 - 03/04/15 02:38 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Helnak said: The drying process, as far as I know, destroys most psilocin molecules, but the psilocybin remains intact.
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tourrat
humanbeinganimal


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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Algo]
#21361627 - 03/04/15 02:50 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I always noticed a considerable difference when eating them fresh compared to dried. And I have eaten clones fresh then a few weeks later dried, on several occasions and there was always a notable difference.Hard to quantify but I certainly noticed a difference more than placebo could account for. Always seemed to come on stronger faster and harder when fresh.
-------------------- Knee deep in the hotel tub.....
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grainbrain
Tribalistic

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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: tourrat]
#21362034 - 03/04/15 04:13 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I find the immediate, bioavailable psilocin in the fresh mushrooms to have a more electric presence than the slower churning waves of the psilocybin that your stomach acids convert to psilocin.
My preferred ingestion method would be fresh mushrooms in tea with lemon.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: SpitballJedi]
#21362288 - 03/04/15 05:08 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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shroom jello and chocolates for me. but i like em fresh as well. ive had far more intense trips over the years picking them fresh from cow pastures and eating them right out of the tub. thats not to say i haven't had some intense trips off dry mushrooms either.
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Val
Were just Marbles in a Cave...

Registered: 01/31/15
Posts: 120
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: grainbrain]
#21362295 - 03/04/15 05:10 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Stamets says in psilocybin mushrooms of the world Page38
"Since psilocybin is degraded into psilocin during digestion, you are only feeling the effects of psilocin, a dephosphorylated form of psilocin."
from websters dictionary dephosphorylation noun, Biochemistry 1. the removal of a phosphate group from an organic compound, as in the changing of ATP to ADP. 2. the resulting state or condition. ...and yes I always have a better time with fresh as grainbrain points out.
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Algo
Backstrap Fever


Registered: 12/15/14
Posts: 3,857
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: grainbrain]
#21362315 - 03/04/15 05:17 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
grainbrain said: I find the immediate, bioavailable psilocin in the fresh mushrooms to have a more electric presence than the slower churning waves of the psilocybin that your stomach acids convert to psilocin.
My preferred ingestion method would be fresh mushrooms in tea with lemon. 
Fuck always! For me its more beautiful visuals almost cleaner. gotta watch what you eat though bad greasy shitty foods will make lots of pain in the abdominal area. for me anyways.
--------------------
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Dilated
KB Cubensis Fanaticus



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Algo]
#21363505 - 03/04/15 08:53 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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For me, it doesn't matter, the first hour is always a downgraded experience because of EXTREME nausea. Dry heaves, never a solid barf. Really makes things uncomfortable for me. I usually nauseate until the peak then it's the most amazing ride. I've been told to get some ginger root to help battle the nausea. Any others have this problem? This maybe a little off the MAIN topic but I like special treatment
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Dilated]
#21363515 - 03/04/15 08:55 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dilated said: For me, it doesn't matter, the first hour is always a downgraded experience because of EXTREME nausea. Dry heaves, never a solid barf. Really makes things uncomfortable for me. I usually nauseate until the peak then it's the most amazing ride. I've been told to get some ginger root to help battle the nausea. Any others have this problem? This maybe a little off the MAIN topic but I like special treatment 
try shroom jello man. or shroom chocolates.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Dilated]
#21363523 - 03/04/15 08:57 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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right there with ya man. I seem to have a sensitivity. I like to get those frozen pre-made smoothie pouches for like a dollar or so in the frozen section. I can put 4-5g dry with it in a blender. It takes a little longer, but I don't get the gurgles and it tastes great.
-------------------- The Basics
A little civility goes a long way
The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Dilated
KB Cubensis Fanaticus



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: eatyualive]
#21363526 - 03/04/15 08:58 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I love the chocolates but I still get the nausea Tea wasn't as bad, slightly nauseated.
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Dilated
KB Cubensis Fanaticus



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: SpitballJedi]
#21363528 - 03/04/15 08:58 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: right there with ya man. I seem to have a sensitivity. I like to get those frozen pre-made smoothie pouches for like a dollar or so in the frozen section. I can put 4-5g dry with it in a blender. It takes a little longer, but I don't get the gurgles and it tastes great.
Ya the damn gurgles, so uncomfortable. I almost can't even talk because I'm trying to focus my zen..
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Dilated]
#21363539 - 03/04/15 09:00 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dilated said: I love the chocolates but I still get the nausea Tea wasn't as bad, slightly nauseated.
jello ftw! its cold, its small, it hits like lightning.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: eatyualive]
#21363543 - 03/04/15 09:01 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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man i can't tell you how many shrooms ive chomped right off a cow patty. grits and all. amateurs lol
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Chem-4 OG
noob

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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: eatyualive]
#21363562 - 03/04/15 09:04 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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nausea? Thats just the feeling of amazing things about to happen. I guess and traditional dmt experiences are not an option.
--------------------
Asante's Click-O-Rama
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SoupSandwich




Registered: 12/08/14
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: hamloaf]
#21363566 - 03/04/15 09:04 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Fresh and moist definitely seems stronger to me, too. Maybe MAPS will answer this question one day. Or someone of authority, with the necessary measuring tools. Would be nice if I could eat mushrooms legally, in my home country, just once before I die.
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Dilated
KB Cubensis Fanaticus



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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: eatyualive]
#21363569 - 03/04/15 09:04 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said: man i can't tell you how many shrooms ive chomped right off a cow patty. grits and all. amateurs lol
You're also cannibalistic, nothing can affect your gut
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Dilated]
#21363571 - 03/04/15 09:05 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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lol
i eat yo shroom wit my teef...
exocannibalistic. meaning i only eat members of other's tribes. not my own tribe. that would be like shitting where you eat.
Edited by eatyualive (03/04/15 09:06 PM)
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Chem-4 OG
noob

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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: eatyualive]
#21363675 - 03/04/15 09:30 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Back to the OP, Fresh mushrooms are stronger then dried mushrooms. I make this statement from having done both over 50 times each. Yes, I am a psychonaut and take part in several other psychedelic chemicals by pushing them to their limits. Salvia and dmt are the strongest in my experience but result in very different stories.
--------------------
Asante's Click-O-Rama
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Guardian187
Neophyte


Registered: 11/29/14
Posts: 716
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Chem-4 OG]
#21363771 - 03/04/15 09:46 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chem-4 OG said: Back to the OP, Fresh mushrooms are stronger then dried mushrooms. I make this statement from having done both over 50 times each. Yes, I am a psychonaut and take part in several other psychedelic chemicals by pushing them to their limits. Salvia and dmt are the strongest in my experience but result in very different stories. 
Nice
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Dilated
KB Cubensis Fanaticus



Registered: 03/28/14
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Chem-4 OG]
#21363870 - 03/04/15 10:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chem-4 OG said: Back to the OP, Fresh mushrooms are stronger then dried mushrooms. I make this statement from having done both over 50 times each. Yes, I am a psychonaut and take part in several other psychedelic chemicals by pushing them to their limits. Salvia and dmt are the strongest in my experience but result in very different stories. 
People try to hate on salvia but holy hell.. talk about another dimension.. back to the OP though... ahh!!
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hamloaf
Q-dood ®©™√


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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Helnak]
#21364561 - 03/05/15 04:03 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Helnak said: The drying process, as far as I know, destroys most psilocin molecules, but the psilocybin remains intact.
The destruction of psilocin molecules. Never considered this before.
Shines some light onto how there's an actual, notable decrease in what we describe as potency taking place between fresh fruits and dehydrated fruits.
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: hamloaf]
#21364695 - 03/05/15 06:03 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Idk I don't think that has much to do with it because psilocybin is a pro drug and the actual concentration of freely available psilocin in psilocybin mushrooms is most likely not enough to matter. The body converts it to the psilocin via dephosphorylation.
If I was too take a stab at it. The degradation comes in the drying process from oxidation. Although psilocybin is the more stable compound and holds up to the drying process thus leaving it in the dryed material . Its very likely that the dephosphorylation also occurs during drying creating psilocin and possible loss of potency in open air.
I think dried material also wouldn't digest as well as fresh material. Meaning you may need to rehydrate the mushrooms before consumption so proper digestion and dephosphorylation occurs. Dried material also isn't fantastic for the digestive system probly resulting in upset stomach.
Tried and tru... ive always loved mine fresh on pizza!!
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Legitimate_itch
Coloniser


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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#21364744 - 03/05/15 06:28 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'll try them fresh next time. I didn't know this !
-------------------- This is psychic martial arts
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/03
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Re: The Degrading Of Psilocybin (if any) During The Dehydration Process. [Re: Legitimate_itch]
#21364764 - 03/05/15 06:40 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Legitimate_itch said: I'll try them fresh next time. I didn't know this !
Don't be afraid of the oven. I like to get a digiorno the garlic bread kind, what ever kind you like is fine. Cook till its almost done and add my fresh mushrooms right at the end with a piece of sliced cheese over them.Put it back in the oven till its melted.
YOu can eat multiple slices I also get a can of spaghetti sauce and heat it up for crust dippin.
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