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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Genocide? [Re: qman] 1
#22755933 - 01/09/16 08:35 AM (8 years, 20 days ago) |
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The Irish are v diff than native Americans 
And you misunderstand not similar in meaning but similar in cultural misappropriation or white washing the holiday away into nothing but cheap consumerism. Not only that but you went a step further to display your prejudice opinion. By showing you equate Irish culture with one you identify and then step two demeaning the holiday of a culture you don't identify with.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,795
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay]
#22756179 - 01/09/16 09:52 AM (8 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: this is a nice debate 
Let's take tipote's point here and talk about St. Patricks day. I'm not irish nor have I ever been there but, I have a good suspicion that it's pretty equatable to cinco de mayo. These are great examples of how american culture white washes holidays instead of allowing cultures to celebrate their heritage. Is it done purposefully? I don't really think so, I think it's a mix of consumerism and poor education. This also pushes my earlier point of asking how accurate and fair do you think minority cultures in the US would be represented with out owning their own productions?
Cinco de Mayo is (one of) Mexico's independence day. St. Patricks day is a celebration of the death of St. Patrick
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick's_Day
Quote:
According to tradition, Patrick returned to Ireland to convert the pagan Irish to Christianity. The Declaration says that he spent many years evangelising in the northern half of Ireland and converted "thousands". Patrick's efforts to convert, subjugate, and drive off the Pagans (specifically the Celts) were eventually turned into an allegory in which he drove "snakes" out of Ireland. (Ireland never had any snakes.)
St. Patricks Day would probably offend the native 5th century celts (if there were any left) but that plays to my point. In america, everyone is irish on St. Patrick's day. (where i live, there are plenty of drunken mexican leprechauns on St Paddy's day) At one time the irish were treated terribly in this country, but now, we all celebrate the irish together. if that means that a holiday got "white washed" (and i don't feel that is the case) then so be it. As for cinco de mayo, I think thats it is pretty inclusive/tolerant(historically speaking) that we celebrate another country's independence day at all. I also think i is unfortunate when i see things like reconquista marches on cinco de mayo (which seems to be a relatively new feature of the holiday here in Southern California)
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,795
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Genocide? [Re: Tipote]
#22756215 - 01/09/16 10:04 AM (8 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
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ballsalsa said: i'm not a fan. i think that the idea is counterproductive to integration in the U.S. same with the Korean soap opera channel
integration to what? the US culture is an assimilationist culture. it adds parts and changes parts of incoming cultures. Identities merge and collective identities form. But that doesnt mean the origin identities are no longer significant.
not that long ago the Irish were seen as a scourge. Now, things like St. Patrick's day are part of mainstream American culture.
the culture of a nation is dependent on what is brought into it.
Very true. I just think that having insular communities within the U.S. slows the process of assimilation, and that culturally separate television programming exacerbates the issue.
like it or lump it, but Dora the Explorer has done more to introduce a generation of children to the Spanish Language, for instance, than all the telenovelas ever aired on telemundo. It might be white washed as hell, but it provides common ground amongst children from different cultural backgrounds.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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The way cinco de mayo is celebrated is def intolerant and I can't speak for the Irish but I know many latino's that feel this way. This is the point I'm making tho, it should not be a requirement to be american that you must also give up your cultural heritage in favor of a cheap consumerist joke. Let's not beat around the bush here and pretend that there is not an "american culture" that's not deeply rooted in consumerism. So when you force minorities to share representation with, or only be represented by american culture you are in essence making a consumerist joke out of real cultural traditions in favor of making americans comfortable.
edit: you posted while I was typing, on the other hand that is a good point those same latino's don't have much a problem w dora.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 5,410
Loc: UK/France/US
Last seen: 8 months, 17 days
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Quote:
Bubbles85 said: She didn't directly say, that third world immigrants do not assimilate, but she may as well have done
youre right she didnt say that.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay]
#22762461 - 01/10/16 04:09 PM (8 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: The Irish are v diff than native Americans 
How so? Common geography, common genetics, common heritage, and common religion. Yes there were some differences, but not much.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Genocide? [Re: qman] 1
#22766730 - 01/11/16 05:10 PM (8 years, 18 days ago) |
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because I meant native american as in "indians", you know, the only real natives to north america...
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay]
#22767170 - 01/11/16 06:45 PM (8 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: because I meant native american as in "indians", you know, the only real natives to north america...
It doesn't work that way, those were the original inhabitants.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Genocide? [Re: qman] 1
#22768883 - 01/12/16 06:18 AM (8 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
airclay said: because I meant native american as in "indians", you know, the only real natives to north america...
It doesn't work that way, those were the original inhabitants.
unless you define natives to meet the select criteria you're hoping for then yes it does work that way.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 5,410
Loc: UK/France/US
Last seen: 8 months, 17 days
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay] 1
#22769038 - 01/12/16 08:01 AM (8 years, 17 days ago) |
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lol "it doesnt work that way"
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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OysterKing
His I ness



Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 237
Last seen: 11 months, 18 days
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Bubbles85 - It appears as you say.
Affirmative Action = Racism, wrap it up how you like it.
I ask again, what could I possibly do? Its the dilemma I face, as a proud person. Is this deliberate, or co-incidental? My mind says the former, my newspaper the latter.
We live in a conspiratorial world.
By the way things are hilarious in South Africa now.
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