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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



Registered: 10/28/11
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Loc: UK/France/US
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i'm sure airclay would agree with you for the most part. I dont think he was saying we live in white land or whatever. i think he was rather saying that our elites kind of brand america like that, and years of prejudice and oppression put that brand of america in the forefront of many's minds. Of course, that is not true America but that is the dominant discourse.
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Media programming marketed specifically to one racial or ethnic group to the exclusion of others is racist, segregationist, divisive, and counterproductive in terms of integrating everyone into American society.
hmm if it excludes others then it is divisive and segregationist. I've never seen BET, i dont know.
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Why spend all of our time celebrating how "different" all of our cultures are when we could be celebrating the things we have in common.
again, i havent seen BET so i dont know if they really do focus on the difference. I agree we should all focus on what we have in common. It happens that many black people in the US have a shared history, including oppression and slavery, but cultural influences from their heritage.
At the same time, there are many differences even within "black culture" so to separate those differences according to race is again, divisive.
It is truly a challenge in this world to create an all encompassing, inclusive representation of people and their shared human culture. The forces of division are well established.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Bubbles85

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 2,884
Loc: England
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay]
#22751236 - 01/08/16 03:59 AM (8 years, 21 days ago) |
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airclay said: so no proof, ok
That's a video of Angela Merkel openly admitting to the press, that multiculturalism is a failed concept and that third world immigrants, as a whole, do not assimilate into European society.
qman is bang on the money with what he is saying, Angela Merkel is not the only EU leader to come out and openly admit this.
Yet they still insist on shipping immigrants in to EU by the boat load. The entire system is completely fucked.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



Registered: 10/28/11
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Last seen: 8 months, 17 days
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That's a video of Angela Merkel openly admitting to the press, that multiculturalism is a failed concept and that third world immigrants, as a whole, do not assimilate into European society.
no one has denied she said this. this has come up many times before.
first of all, it said in the video that she was attempting to shore up her conservative political allies that she has a tough stance on integration.
secondly, she did not say "third world immigrants, as a whole, do not assimilate into European society" in your video, she didnt even say "third world immigrants".
the difference is side by side separation VS integration.
she said in the video :
"immigrants can help build a multicultural society by learning german"
"We should not be a country either that gives the impression to the outside world that those who don't speak german immediately, or who werent raised speaking german, are not welcome here - that would do great damage to our country. Companies will go elsewhere because they won't find the people to work here anymore."
she was calling for increased efforts at integration, which is absolutely correct.
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Yet they still insist on shipping immigrants in to EU by the boat load
Do you really think that the EU is "shipping immigrants into the EU by the boat load"? Because it doesnt happen.
Those are actually criminal gangs and people smugglers who extort huge sums of money/sex from vulnerable people for the chance to attempt the dangerous journey across the Mediterranean. Thousands of men women and children have died from the journey, in case you weren't aware. These are desperate people.
Refugee does not = economic migrant. It actually is a word with a definition. There are legal and moral obligations to help.
EU countries have individually set their own accepted numbers of refugees.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Bubbles85

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 2,884
Loc: England
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Re: Genocide? [Re: Tipote]
#22751425 - 01/08/16 06:35 AM (8 years, 21 days ago) |
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She didn't directly say, that third world immigrants do not assimilate, but she may as well have done and that is exactly what she was hinting toward with this comment -
"This multicultural approach, saying that we simply live side by side and are happy about each other, this approach has failed, utterly failed."
After this her political correctness took over 
I mean lets face it, the vast majority "not all" but most of these people, do not come into Europe and instantaneously mix with the native populace.
They create there own community's, within European country's, that end up being dominated by people of only there culture's and belief's.
The natives move out and the immigrants move in. All most like a type of urban, ethnic cleansing and that is happening in all most every town and city right across Europe.
I can drive around every single city that i frequent on a regular basis in the UK "Birmingham, Coventry, Leicester" for instance and continuously drive in and out of areas, that are either dominated by a populace of native Brits, or dominated by a populace of immigrants.
That's a fact and that is why multiculturalism is a failed concept. Because, if immigrants really did assimilate, this would not be happening.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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ballsalsa said:
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secondly in the culture of whiteness we call america...

what is "white culture"? what is "black culture"? We don't live in Whiteland or Blackland, we live in the United States of America. Media programming marketed specifically to one racial or ethnic group to the exclusion of others is racist, segregationist, divisive, and counterproductive in terms of integrating everyone into American society. Why spend all of our time celebrating how "different" all of our cultures are when we could be celebrating the things we have in common.
It's absurd to think that different cultures don't exist.
The idea of beating racism by simply pretending it doesn't exist and that there aren't different cultures to be celebrated is that classic american way. This narrative only benefits the racists and those that would rather white-wash the world instead of having one where we can celebrate who we are individually and the diversities of our communities.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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qman
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay]
#22751556 - 01/08/16 08:23 AM (8 years, 21 days ago) |
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airclay said:
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ballsalsa said:
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secondly in the culture of whiteness we call america...

what is "white culture"? what is "black culture"? We don't live in Whiteland or Blackland, we live in the United States of America. Media programming marketed specifically to one racial or ethnic group to the exclusion of others is racist, segregationist, divisive, and counterproductive in terms of integrating everyone into American society. Why spend all of our time celebrating how "different" all of our cultures are when we could be celebrating the things we have in common.
It's absurd to think that different cultures don't exist.
The idea of beating racism by simply pretending it doesn't exist and that there aren't different cultures to be celebrated is that classic american way. This narrative only benefits the racists and those that would rather white-wash the world instead of having one where we can celebrate who we are individually and the diversities of our communities.
"where we can celebrate...the diversities of our communities"
Really, white people aren't allowed to celebrate their culture and heritage without being called racist today, it's only PC to celebrate a minority culture.
Also, why should I celebrate a dysfunction culture that is inferior in every aspect of American life? That makes no sense.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Genocide? [Re: qman]
#22752044 - 01/08/16 10:59 AM (8 years, 21 days ago) |
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It makes no sense how you can claim races you don't identify w as inferior and still be confused as to why're you're being called a racist. You can celebrate American culture, you can celebrate Irish culture, British culture Canadian Swedish Finnish whatever but there is no such thing as white culture.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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qman
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay]
#22752077 - 01/08/16 11:08 AM (8 years, 21 days ago) |
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airclay said: It makes no sense how you can claim races you don't identify w as inferior and still be confused as to why're you're being called a racist. You can celebrate American culture, you can celebrate Irish culture, British culture Canadian Swedish Finnish whatever but there is no such thing as white culture.
"claim races you don't identify w as inferior"
I said "culture that is inferior".
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,795
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay] 1
#22752342 - 01/08/16 12:21 PM (8 years, 21 days ago) |
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airclay said:
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ballsalsa said:
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secondly in the culture of whiteness we call america...

what is "white culture"? what is "black culture"? We don't live in Whiteland or Blackland, we live in the United States of America. Media programming marketed specifically to one racial or ethnic group to the exclusion of others is racist, segregationist, divisive, and counterproductive in terms of integrating everyone into American society. Why spend all of our time celebrating how "different" all of our cultures are when we could be celebrating the things we have in common.
It's absurd to think that different cultures don't exist.
The idea of beating racism by simply pretending it doesn't exist and that there aren't different cultures to be celebrated is that classic american way. This narrative only benefits the racists and those that would rather white-wash the world instead of having one where we can celebrate who we are individually and the diversities of our communities.
Its absurd to imply that i think different cultures don't exist.
Nobody has suggested that we pretend that racism does not exist. But you can't fight fire with fire, and you won't overcome racism with racism. Believe it or not, but white folks are not the only people in the world who are racists. Furthermore, there are many aspects of American culture that preclude or preempt traditions of other cultures (including european christians). For instance, in America, the law requires that both girls and boys be educated. Parents are not allowed to mutilate the genitals of their daughters here. It is not legal to burn your wife/wives to death on your funeral pyre. It isn't socially acceptable to kill animals so you can read the omens in their entrails. Clearly, not every aspect of every culture can be embraced with regard to being consistent with the goals and norms of our society. Creating a separate venue for "black culture" or "white culture" or "beige culture" or whatever, can only serve to further polarize and segregate our society. People worked very hard a generation ago to end segregation in schools, and in general. Segregated television is a major step backward imo.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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You're still pushing classic American thinking around race. You say you're not trying to forget or pretend racism isn't there, however, in action and any furtherance of your idea require just that.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,795
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay]
#22752625 - 01/08/16 01:32 PM (8 years, 21 days ago) |
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let me pose a hypothetical to you.
let's say you are a bad person(not YOU in particular), but you have to pretend to be a good person in order to get along in society and accomplish your goals. So you pretend to be a good person. Whenever you make a decision, you first determine what a good person would do, then act accordingly. If you do this, day in and day out, your actions become indistinguishable from those of a good person. Eventually, you don't have to think about it anymore, doing good has simply become your habit.
are you still a bad person?
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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I understand the hypothetical. But I disagree that it's an apt descriptor for the nuances of race in America.
Do you have an issue w Univision or telemundo?and pinning why not on language would be weak. It's a similar celebration of Latino culture.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,795
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay]
#22752967 - 01/08/16 02:37 PM (8 years, 21 days ago) |
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i'm not a fan. i think that the idea is counterproductive to integration in the U.S. same with the Korean soap opera channel
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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So the idea of ending racism (narrowed down to our little TV scope) you're presenting here is to disallow those of non-white American culture their own productions but to expect or force the television productions controlled by white American culture to equally, fairly and truly represent minority cultures?
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,795
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay]
#22753104 - 01/08/16 03:20 PM (8 years, 21 days ago) |
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"white american culture" "minority cultures"
i think you are missing my point, so i'll tell you a story that may illuminate it somewhat.
After Pearl Harbor, my grandfather's brother enlisted in the army. His father was very angry and asked him why he would sign up, and perhaps be sent off to kill his fellow italians. He responded by telling his father that he didn't give a shit because he's american, not italian.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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that's a pleasant story and take nothing I say in disrespect to those actions.
Following that logic tho america is not a melting pot of cultures? your individual cultural heritage ceases to exist and you're forced to accept mainstream american culture as your own. Should we take a minute to discuss who mainstream america represents? This is what I mean by pretending it doesn't exist or forgetting about it. It only benefits those who feel things are acceptable in their current state.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,795
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay] 1
#22753596 - 01/08/16 05:31 PM (8 years, 21 days ago) |
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you are presenting a false dichotomy. it doesn't have to be one or the other.
What happens in a melting pot? do things become mixed? or do they remain neatly separate?
just because i am american doesn't mean i can't eat lasagna on christmas eve.(or tamales, those tasty little nuggets)
Also, if you think being part of american culture means that you have to accept things in their current state, you are mistaken i think. Indeed, drastic change has always been the name of the game in America.
btw, this little debate has been a very pleasant departure from the usual vitriol that i see with regard to this topic.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite



Registered: 10/28/11
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Last seen: 8 months, 17 days
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: i'm not a fan. i think that the idea is counterproductive to integration in the U.S. same with the Korean soap opera channel
integration to what? the US culture is an assimilationist culture. it adds parts and changes parts of incoming cultures. Identities merge and collective identities form. But that doesnt mean the origin identities are no longer significant.
not that long ago the Irish were seen as a scourge. Now, things like St. Patrick's day are part of mainstream American culture.
the culture of a nation is dependent on what is brought into it.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Genocide? [Re: Tipote] 1
#22755608 - 01/09/16 06:44 AM (8 years, 20 days ago) |
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this is a nice debate 
Let's take tipote's point here and talk about St. Patricks day. I'm not irish nor have I ever been there but, I have a good suspicion that it's pretty equatable to cinco de mayo. These are great examples of how american culture white washes holidays instead of allowing cultures to celebrate their heritage. Is it done purposefully? I don't really think so, I think it's a mix of consumerism and poor education. This also pushes my earlier point of asking how accurate and fair do you think minority cultures in the US would be represented with out owning their own productions?
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qman
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Re: Genocide? [Re: airclay]
#22755695 - 01/09/16 07:19 AM (8 years, 20 days ago) |
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airclay said: this is a nice debate 
Let's take tipote's point here and talk about St. Patricks day. I'm not irish nor have I ever been there but, I have a good suspicion that it's pretty equatable to cinco de mayo. These are great examples of how american culture white washes holidays instead of allowing cultures to celebrate their heritage. Is it done purposefully? I don't really think so, I think it's a mix of consumerism and poor education. This also pushes my earlier point of asking how accurate and fair do you think minority cultures in the US would be represented with out owning their own productions?
Yeah, because the Irish were so different than the native population. And no, that's not equal to some "cinco de mayo".
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