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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,728
Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21352265 - 03/02/15 02:25 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Where did I say they should not use power equipment? Flog straw men much?



Fine, then have them use tractors. Now tell us how that's going to reach the same (or better) level of efficiency as current agricultural methods, because whether you like it or not, there's 7 billion of us and you talking about toxicity suggests you're concerned with them as well, so we can't just have them all shot.

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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21352293 - 03/02/15 02:32 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Balti, you adroitly dodge the issue that roundup does not "permit" no till farming, you can use that tec without the harmful chems

>Any time you eat cornflakes...you're eating something from "those" farms. Dude....this is how it is done today

I don't eat cornflakes and the only corn I eat is organic. I realize almost all corn is gmo crap. You eat it, pour a little roundup on top for flavor.



I'm saying Roundup makes No-Till farming much easier and this is how it is done in all the SC Pa. farms that I know of....including the Mennonite farms. That is it...over and out....lol. And, by all means, good luck with your preferred diet....sounds good but I just don't have the money or energy to pursue these crops you speak of. I do enjoy foraging for wild foods, however...like stinging nettle, wild rice, leeks, many varieties of mushrooms, Jerusalem artichoke, cattails,and many others. These are abundant and grow without any help from man.:sunny::peace:


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Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: koraks]
    #21352304 - 03/02/15 02:34 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
The 'report' you linked to is a website, but it doesn't matter. You're just being your predictable old self; you're now hastily looking for some reports that don't have disclaimer, then you try to use that to support your flawed logic that if one (or several) don't have such disclaimers, then none of them have, and then I have to explain to you that the presence of such a disclaimer depends on many factors, the most important in the context of this discussion being the purpose of the report, and then we discuss the different kinds of policy reports for a bit (which you don't have a clue about, so you'll learn a lot if you actually listen), after which we get to the issue of why the 'personal views' of the authors of this specific report may or may not be relevant and how they may or may not differ from sanctioned (a word you seem to like) reports, which in turn means I have to explain to you how policy is made and what it's based on. And once that's all done, we may talk a bit about how organizations are a collection of people and that they all have opinions, which may or may not be based on facts and which may or may not be in line with those facts, and then we can talk a bit about the nature of reality and about different views on it. In between this whole altercation, I will loose you a couple of times, and I will have to explain things very slowly in simple terms, using analogies that even you can comprehend, and at the end of the day, you may have learned something. But not today, because frankly, you don't have a clue what you're talking about and I'm buggered if I'm going to help you with that :lol: Good luck mate, have a nice one.



Hastily looking?  I knew it wouldn't be in a real report and your just spinning into oblivion.  The guy cited it as having the imprimatur of the UN and UNCTAD.  It does not meet the standard for that appeal to authority.  .


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,728
Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21352323 - 03/02/15 02:39 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Haha, you couldn't possibly judge that, but nice try :lol:

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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: koraks]
    #21352329 - 03/02/15 02:42 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I bet you could find trace amounts of almost any toxin in the water

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Posts: 81,741
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: koraks]
    #21352359 - 03/02/15 02:51 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Haha, you couldn't possibly judge that, but nice try :lol:



What is so difficult about determining that an appeal to authority fails when the supposed authority disavows sanction?  You are not well.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,728
Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21352381 - 03/02/15 02:58 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

The authority didn't do that. The sanctioning in this case is up to the unctad and they included the report in their publicly available documents. The authors wrote this and made clear that sanctioning is not up to them,so they published this on their own authority and left decision making to the instance that commissioned the report. So we could discuss the authority of the authors for a bit and then we're having the discussion anyway that I outlined above,so we're back on track. But we're still not talking about the contents of the report,which is something you evidently want to prevent as your lack of comprehension would become too painfully clear.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: koraks]
    #21352439 - 03/02/15 03:09 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Uh huh.  Ever see the disclaimers at the beginning of an infomercial that says the opinions expressed are not those of the network airing it?  Yeah.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: koraks]
    #21352448 - 03/02/15 03:11 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Koraks, you have tangled with the tar baby. The more you try to explain things, the more red herrings he drags in and the more confusion he creates. Lots of luck with that.

Back to the topic at hand
>Fine, then have them use tractors. Now tell us how that's going to reach the same (or better) level of efficiency as current agricultural methods, because whether you like it or not, there's 7 billion of us

You talk like we are obligated to feed every brat that they crap out. I don't see it that way, they made their bed now let them lie in it. I don't mind the fact that the grocery stores are full of gmo pesticide laden garbage but at least let us know which is which. The gmo crowd has a strange habit of being against labeling, like they are afraid people won't eat it if they know what in it. Freedom of information is our most precious liberty.

I'm kind of glad so many people are willing volunteers to test all sorts of nasty chemicals the bought and paid for fda approved. They not only volunteer for free but pay for the crap they are testing too. Monstanto is dancing with glee over that. The drug companies are happy too because they know diseases of all sorts are rising now (coincidence?) and they can sell more dangerous drugs to treat the diseases. So everyone wins all around. Except for the consumer of course but who cares about him?

We should send gmo's, msg, aspartame, roundup, etc over to Africa instead of vaccines. What was gates thinking? They have too many brats, too much populations so send them vaccines? Might as well put gasoline on a fire. Send them that garbage from Monsanto and they will have fewer problems with overpopulation. Just don't sneak it into my food without a warning label. I do not volunteer to be a lab rat.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #21352457 - 03/02/15 03:13 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

>I'm saying Roundup makes No-Till farming much easier

OK, finally a statement we can agree on. It makes gmo garbage much easier to produce. Eat hearty, in 20 years we will know what it does to people.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,728
Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21352465 - 03/02/15 03:15 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Oh, it's fine really, he's just showing off his ignorance and I'm helping him a bit. It'll be fun when (if) he actually gets past page 1 and completely undermines the credibility he still has with a few on here.

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OfflineMaharishi_2_U
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Registered: 10/21/09
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: koraks]
    #21352473 - 03/02/15 03:17 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I should have quit reading when I saw the back and forth begin, but it is kind of funny.
Koraks, you are clearly unable to follow reasonable debate and still constantly argumentative.
You look like a complete moron in this thread.
I studied Ag at a big ten university, Glyphosphate is not the best stuff in the world, but neither are cigs, drugs, and other things we put in our bodies.  The idea is enjoying life, harm reduction.  Some folks want to live in some sort of hippy dippy rose glasses world and complain about being hung with a new rope.  Time wasted, enjoy awareness while you have it.

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,728
Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #21352487 - 03/02/15 03:21 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Not only should you have stopped reading, you just showed that you actually did a pretty poor job at it too.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: koraks]
    #21352580 - 03/02/15 03:56 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Pris seems to have melted down and left after claiming a DO is not a doctor and repeatedly mentioning cosby which seems to have no relevance. Here is another study showing toxicity of roundup for him to scoff at. Will he attack the authors, the journal it was published in or just sneer at it?

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00204-006-0170-5#page-1


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21352613 - 03/02/15 04:09 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Abstract
Glyphosate is the active ingredient and polyoxyethyleneamine is the surfactant present in the herbicide Roundup® formulation commercialized in Brazil. The aim of this study was to assess the reproductive effects of glyphosate-Roundup® on male and female offspring of Wistar rats exposed during pregnancy and lactation. Dams were treated orally with water or 50, 150 or 450 mg/kg glyphosate during pregnancy (21–23 days) and lactation (21 days). These doses do not correspond to human exposure levels. The results showed that glyphosate-Roundup® did not induce maternal toxicity but induced adverse reproductive effects on male offspring rats: a decrease in sperm number per epididymis tail and in daily sperm production during adulthood, an increase in the percentage of abnormal sperms and a dose-related decrease in the serum testosterone level at puberty, and signs of individual spermatid degeneration during both periods. There was only a vaginal canal-opening delay in the exposed female offspring. These findings suggest that in utero and lactational exposure to glyphosate-Roundup® may induce significant adverse effects on the reproductive system of male Wistar rats at puberty and during adulthood.




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OfflineMaharishi_2_U
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: koraks]
    #21352677 - 03/02/15 04:27 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Not only should you have stopped reading, you just showed that you actually did a pretty poor job at it too.



How did you come to that conclusion? 
Lmao @ you

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21352680 - 03/02/15 04:28 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:

:goodluckwiththat2:

What are you even trying to point out with that quote?

I would be interested to see if people are exposed to more or less of it, but I am sure that varies quite a bit :shrug:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: musiclover420]
    #21352706 - 03/02/15 04:37 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I can poison you with dihydrogen monoxide given a big enough dose


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21353005 - 03/02/15 05:52 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Zap is doing his usual act, obfuscating, distorting, nit picking, etc. As most of us know already, he is not here for honest debate but to entertain himself while spewing baloney and ranting on his favorite topics. I have presented study after study showing toxic effects from roundup. Here is another one

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf9606518

Here is a study on the toxicity of gmo's

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408390601177670


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Toxic compound roundup found in air and water [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21353042 - 03/02/15 06:03 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Zap is doing his usual act, obfuscating, distorting, nit picking, etc. As most of us know already, he is not here for honest debate but to entertain himself while spewing baloney and ranting on his favorite topics. I have presented study after study showing toxic effects from roundup. Here is another one

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf9606518




Quote:

Glyphosate (N-phosphonomethylglycine) is an effective herbicide acting on the synthesis of aromatic amino acids in plants. The genotoxic potential of this herbicide has been studied:  the results available in the open literature reveal a weak activity of the technical formulation. In this study, the formulated commercial product, Roundup, and its active agent, glyphosate, were tested in the same battery of assays for the induction of DNA damage and chromosomal effects in vivo and in vitro. Swiss CD1 mice were treated intraperitoneally with test substances, and the DNA damage was evaluated by alkaline elution technique and 8-hydroxydeoxyguanosine (8-OHdG) quantification in liver and kidney. The chromosomal damage of the two pesticide preparations was also evaluated in vivo in bone marrow of mice as micronuclei frequency and in vitro in human lymphocyte culture as SCE frequency. A DNA-damaging activity as DNA single-strand breaks and 8-OHdG and a significant increase in chromosomal alterations were observed with both substances in vivo and in vitro. A weak increment of the genotoxic activity was evident using the technical formulation.




That is the totality of your link
Quote:



Here is a study on the toxicity of gmo's

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408390601177670




Quote:

Abstract
According to the information reported by the WHO, the genetically modified (GM) products that are currently on the international market have all passed risk assessments conducted by national authorities. These assessments have not indicated any risk to human health. In spite of this clear statement, it is quite amazing to note that the review articles published in international scientific journals during the current decade did not find, or the number was particularly small, references concerning human and animal toxicological/health risks studies on GM foods. In this paper, the scientific information concerning the potential toxicity of GM/transgenic plants using the Medline database is reviewed. Studies about the safety of the potential use of potatoes, corn, soybeans, rice, cucumber, tomatoes, sweet pepper, peas, and canola plants for food and feed were included. The number of references was surprisingly limited. Moreover, most published studies were not performed by the biotechnology companies that produce these products. This review can be concluded raising the following question: where is the scientific evidence showing that GM plants/food are toxicologically safe?




That is the totality of that link.  It isn't even an abstract of a study, it is an abstract of a review.

You would think that you could actually come up with something since you care so much about finding out why there all these mass graves of victims of GMOs


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