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Fotor
Stranger

Registered: 02/03/15
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Should the FC be rotated?
#21350845 - 03/02/15 06:36 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have my FC in a room facing the window. It gets plenty of indirect light but I noticed cakes only pinning/fruiting on the side that faces the window growing in the direction on the sun. My question is, should it be rotated so that both sides get sunlight? Would this cause any aborts or slow down on the side that is currently pinning?
Thanks!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: Fotor]
#21350881 - 03/02/15 07:14 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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light doesn't cause pinning conditions do. the side facing the light probably has more evaporation and thus higher humidity. when we talk about humidity in a fruiting chamber it's the humidity close to your cakes that matters. the microclimate a few millimeters from your cakes surface. the humidity in the FC should fluctuate dramatically getting as low as 50/60% but the cakes themselves have a constant high humidity zone if you do it right.
you can try rotating it but light doesn't cause the pins.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21351042 - 03/02/15 08:39 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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im always hearing 'spectrum is more important that intensity' and I thought the reason we use blue spectrum bulbs was as direct light in this spectrum had been proved to aid/beneficial in initiating fruiting in cubensis? and i thought this was the sole reason it was deduced that blue is the best spectrum to use through out the whole life cycle? im not sure of any scientific tests that i have come across that show/prove benefit of blue spectrum other than relating to iniciating fruits.
if you could point me to a few i would be very greatful 
http://www.lycaeum.org/mv/mu/cubensis_parameters.html
and this from the archives -
http://www.shroomery.org/5131/What-is-the-best-light-source-to-use
so it must be concluded, it may only be a secondary trigger but is a trigger none the less
Edited by mustangbob3 (03/02/15 09:00 AM)
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TheMustardTiger


Registered: 08/19/13
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21351131 - 03/02/15 09:17 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: light doesn't cause pinning conditions do. the side facing the light probably has more evaporation and thus higher humidity. when we talk about humidity in a fruiting chamber it's the humidity close to your cakes that matters. the microclimate a few millimeters from your cakes surface. the humidity in the FC should fluctuate dramatically getting as low as 50/60% but the cakes themselves have a constant high humidity zone if you do it right.
you can try rotating it but light doesn't cause the pins.
Dead on.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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so direct 'blue' spectrum light dosen't aid in pinset initiation??  i thought this was the reason 6500k spectrum was used as supplemental lighting? so light is now no longer concidered a pinning trigger? so why do we use this spectrum, what and where is the benefit?
most people who have tried it say that direct, correct spectrum and intensity light from the start of fruiting helps to create fuller more even pinsets . was not the op's question was regarding uneven pinset and light factors?
with the little information we got, and a limited decoding ability, and as we know it has fruited we just have to assume the other conditions are met, as we lack any pictures to fully ascess this we cannot comment on these factors and must take it that the op has this in order( i.e full colonisation, humidity, fae ) and that pinset was not satifactory and the drawn conclusions could be it was just a genetic trait of said substrain or improper lighting contributed to said substrain under preforming in regards to pinset.
only advice possible apart from try a different substrain (genetic factors) is- try adjusting lighting to see if improvement of pinset could be gained
your post didnt really help the OP understand what could be changed to make improvements only laid down blanket statements. basically you said thats your lot deal with it lol not very shroomy!
light may only be secondary and light may not be the major cause of the pins, but is sure can help with even pinsets if it is used right. you admitt this in your own post saying the side in the light had more evaporation...... the evapouration is being cause by the light, so light is helpful in creating better pinsets even if only route would be by increasing evapouration!
your post never really helped the OP progress and improve so not so helpful in my book.
may have been better to say if your tub was recieving equal amounts of light all over the substrate the evapouration from the surface would have been equal (evapouration from substate being a major pinning trigger) and surface humidity would have been maintained allowing more pins to develope and thus creating a more even pinset.
in this case equal lighting from window being the key to equal evapouration being the key to better pinset. least this way the OP would have something adjust to improve next time around.
and OP as for your questions, turning your tub wont cause aborts and i doubt it will slow down growth of the already formed mushrooms as light is not really a factor in regulating growth, this is mainly controlled by influx of water into the mushroom fruitbody and is not understood to be governed by light but it thought to be controlled by osmotic pressure created by mannitol levels in the mushroom. but as your pinset has already formed turning the tub may be of no benefit with regards to improving the amount of fruits.
Edited by mustangbob3 (03/02/15 11:58 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21352125 - 03/02/15 01:54 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mustang, I'm not here to give lectures, I can state the facts. If you want to go find out if my facts are correct or not is your own deal. Do the fact checking yourself, If you get hand held you're not going to become a fantastic cultivator. But for the sake of you asking some questions here's some further clarification from my experiences and acquaintances experiences
Some mushrooms like the white button mushroom don't benefit from light. they form a pinset and the BE(biological efficiency) and appearance/density of the fruits are the same.
Other species like oysters require a shitload of light to ensure proper performance and appropriate BE
BE is just a measure of your dry weight of sub to wet weight of harvest. say you make a 10 lb straw log and harvest 10 pounds of wet mushrooms from 3 flushes. you have 100% BE.
Cubensis benefits from lights as well. the 6500K lighting has the best effect on fruit bodies. you get a better BE or harvest weight when using proper lighting with cubensis. Cubes will pin in the dark with 0 light where pinning conditions are met. but the appearance of the mushroom itself will be inferior to if it were given light.
They derive energy from light using a method that's not photosynthesis.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (03/02/15 01:57 PM)
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21352358 - 03/02/15 02:51 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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sorry you misunderstand me, i fully understand about how the developing mushrooms benefit from light in the correct spectrum
i was refering to light aiding even pin-set formation not about growth after, i thought the common understanding was that direct 6500k light at appropriate intensitys helped in achieving better and more even pinsets and was shocked to hear that lighting or/and lighting spectrum actually had no effects on initial pinset formation as i have read so many times that improper lighting can cause bad pinsets.
sometimes infomation becomes old and out-dated so i needed to check to see if the concensus had changed and to see if i needed to get with the times and clearly i do as i honestly thought proper lighting helped with even pinsets
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21352361 - 03/02/15 02:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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proper conditions are for pinsets. you'll get pins on the bottom of a substrate even with plenty of light if your tub isn't suitable on top
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21352415 - 03/02/15 03:05 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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i agree proper conditions are paramount but i thought proper lighting was like the icing on the cake as far as pinset was concerned  i dont mind being wrong, it just gives me more incite and chances to adapt and learn
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: mustangbob3] 1
#21352547 - 03/02/15 03:42 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah, light is not really a pinning trigger but more something necessary for the correct fruit formation and to regulate circadian rhythm. They also derive energy from light.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: Mr. Alien] 2
#21354730 - 03/03/15 01:23 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes i understand that its just i have read thousands of post that tell someone who is complaining about pinset that improper lighting is a factor in poor pinsets. even roggerrabbit, hyphae, verda-sticks the list goes on and on, its ok thought i must just assume these trusted cultivators was also wrong and times have changed.
it post like this that made me think it was so, and shroomery is full of thousands of these examples.- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9051339#9051339
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3077607#3077607
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20801283#20801283 these are just the first few examples that came up in a search
and look here in ALL of RR notes in the lighting section it says the same over and over and over- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8468496#8468496
confusing who to listen to?? rogerrabbits note used to be the go to place for solid information for noobs but now im unsure what or who to trust!
so maybe RR years of experience and collected notes on lighting are crap and a waste of time!! so why are noobs still directed to this miss-information over and over when it is only perpetuating the same arguments. someone said the other week 'bad info round here spreads faster than ebolas'
IF i listen to RR then light is important in the process of creating hyphal knots and improving pinsets when used in the correct spectrum and intensity and he states this religiously but the more i try to see who is right the more contradictions i find  who is correct??
OP here is RR thoughts on rotating tubs for light-
Quote:
My current setup is a larger fluorescent fixture that holds four 48" tubes, and I have it hanging vertically so it shines in from the front to bathe all five shelves in bright light. I have it about 12" from the door of the GH, so the farthest any substrate is from the light is about 36". The fruits tend to grow toward the light a bit, but that problem is fixed by rotating the trays 180 degrees every couple of days so growth is even. I'm glad to see you got the right frequency of light. 6500K are awesome. You'll never go back to silly night-lights or cool white fluorescent after using one of those. They really do make a difference in pinsets. RR
yes alien i understand mushrooms do synthesize energy from light but its not called photosynthesis purly because the present definition relys on chloroplasts and chlorophyl that a mushroom dosen't have.
i think in the future we will see this definition of photosynth will change as time goes on.
we now know you can synth energy from water and carbon without chlorophyl like photovoltaic cells do in solar panels and the very real and interesting discovery of radiotrophic pathways in fungus hints/shows to the fact of fungus can utilise light as any energy source for growth but using melanin pigments rather than chlorophyl but the science is in its infancy but the effect is there, the exact pathways are not yet understood.
when more is understood maybe the definition of photosynth will be changed to fit any organism or system that creates a fuel from water and carbon using light regardless of the presents of chloroplasts  this would be much more scientific and up to date. the present definition is old and outdated and technology and scientific discoveries are pushing the boundries and one day will call for re-assesment and re-definition. progress cannot be halted sure as the arrow of time moves in one direction.
im so confused, i dont want an argument just to hear truth lol maybe i should checkout the noob forum in your sig bohdisatta.
Edited by mustangbob3 (03/03/15 05:28 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21355177 - 03/03/15 07:04 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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RR has changed his mind a lot over the last 10 years. I don't have any hard scientific data on cubes but from my experience the pinset has nothing to do with light. but the quality of the fruits does.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21355374 - 03/03/15 08:10 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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so you would go as far as to say that all other parameters/conditions the same that you would get the same pin-set if you used say normal light bulbs to light your monotub intead of 6500k florescents ... disregarding later stages of developement and focusing only on initial pin-set effect and not light effects at other stages of developement.
even if our opinions differ i still value yours 
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21356166 - 03/03/15 12:30 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I didn't use proper lighting for months after I started growing, I would still get nice pinsets if I did things right.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21356572 - 03/03/15 01:56 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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didn't we just go through a 250+ posts thread regarding exactly these questions MBob?
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: spacechildo]
#21359091 - 03/04/15 12:28 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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i went through bw's light thread and found no info regarding blue spectrum light helping to iniciate hyphal knots and leading to a better pin-set like it states in RR's notes so i must assume you are takling about a different thread that i missed, and i was confused as it is stated hundreds of times by RR and others that it does benefit so was shocked to find out it did nothing just wanted some clarification of what information was regarded as fact.
tbh i only use supplemental light during winter as natural daylight changes spectrum in the winter to more red as the sun dosent get as high in the sky and has to filter through more pollutants in our atmosphere scattering the light, so i choose to correct this to more of a blue spectrum at this time of year also the amount of hours of light and intensity drops in winter so is beneficial to supplement at this time in effort to replicate natural seasonal conditions and i have read several times light in the red spectrum actually inhibits pinning.
i have not seen much difference in pinset (other than that could be said to be genetic factor or differing humiditys ect) but as i only grow for personal reasons i only need 1-2 tubs a year so in total i have only fruited around 15-20 tubs and about the same playing with cakes and sgfc for fun inbetween the monos.
i also have only been using MS and obviously the temp range is different from summer to winter as is potential humidity of the air (warm air holds less water so humidity drops with increased temperatures most believe that temperature would increase evapouration and thus raise humidity but its a balancing act as warmer air holds less water!!) so with all the variables it is quite impossible for me to make an accurate informed decision based on my own experience's.
this is what led to why me quizing the pros who have alot more experience to draw from and not just unprovable facts from books and anecdotal reference to others grows.
sometimes the proof is in the pudding and sometime even the scientists get it wrong thats why i value the opinions of experience even if its not the answer i want to hear and that pleases my own confirmation bias  this by no way mean i will accept what you say as fact but i will take in what you say and re-look at my own opinion and adjust if needs be.
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Edited by mustangbob3 (03/04/15 02:10 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21359747 - 03/04/15 07:29 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said: i went through bw's light thread and found no info regarding blue spectrum light helping to iniciate hyphal knots and leading to a better pin-set like it states in RR's notes so i must assume you are takling about a different thread that i missed, and i was confused as it is stated hundreds of times by RR and others that it does benefit so was shocked to find out it did nothing just wanted some clarification of what information was regarded as fact.
tbh i only use supplemental light during winter as natural daylight changes spectrum in the winter to more red as the sun dosent get as high in the sky and has to filter through more pollutants in our atmosphere scattering the light, so i choose to correct this to more of a blue spectrum at this time of year also the amount of hours of light and intensity drops in winter so is beneficial to supplement at this time in effort to replicate natural seasonal conditions and i have read several times light in the red spectrum actually inhibits pinning.
i have not seen much difference in pinset (other than that could be said to be genetic factor or differing humiditys ect) but as i only grow for personal reasons i only need 1-2 tubs a year so in total i have only fruited around 15-20 tubs and about the same playing with cakes and sgfc for fun inbetween the monos.
i also have only been using MS and obviously the temp range is different from summer to winter as is potential humidity of the air (warm air holds less water so humidity drops with increased temperatures most believe that temperature would increase evapouration and thus raise humidity but its a balancing act as warmer air holds less water!!) so with all the variables it is quite impossible for me to make an accurate informed decision based on my own experience's.
this is what led to why me quizing the pros who have alot more experience to draw from and not just unprovable facts from books and anecdotal reference to others grows.
sometimes the proof is in the pudding and sometime even the scientists get it wrong thats why i value the opinions of experience even if its not the answer i want to hear and that pleases my own confirmation bias  this by no way mean i will accept what you say as fact but i will take in what you say and re-look at my own opinion and adjust if needs be.
you're searching for facts you want to be true, there's facts for both sides and there realls is no concrete truth yet. just observations. If I did shit just because I saw it in a 7 year old post by RR or someone else I would still be a shit cultivator.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21359823 - 03/04/15 07:50 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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i think this proves im not just looking for what i want to be true -
Quote:
sometimes the proof is in the pudding and sometime even the scientists get it wrong thats why i value the opinions of experience even if its not the answer i want to hear and that pleases my own confirmation bias
i have my own opinions but wanted to find out others opinion was and even stated i wanted others opinions as i had little experience to draw from and that others opinions was valued because of this and the lack of scientic evidence to go on and as like you say there is a big divide, i already found the answer and that is there is not one set concensus i only posted again because space said it was covered in bws light thread and i was stating that my question was different to any posed in that thread 
and i even agreed with you and that from my limited experience i have not seen an effect on pinset but in my conditions there is to many variables and lack of data to accurately form a decision. hence i wanted yours or someone in a position to make an informed decicion and be able to explain how they came to that decision.
as far as i was concerned i had my answers and that is there is not any scientic evidence to say either way so experimentation must be in order and warranted. and before experiments you need to be sure of the known facts.
my intention was good but i feel it might not have came across that way and may have seemed hostile. i apologise if this was so and my intentions was to help the community as a whole 
im not looking to bolster anyones ego specificaly my own but searching for the truth
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Edited by mustangbob3 (03/04/15 07:56 AM)
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spacechildo
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Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21360083 - 03/04/15 09:02 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said: i went through bw's light thread and found no info regarding blue spectrum light helping to iniciate hyphal knots and leading to a better pin-set like it states in RR's notes
that's the thread I'm talking about. there's tons of discussion of light being pinning triggers etc there, even to the point where some got mad and started flaming and got banned 
if you utsf you'll see older posts saying light is a pinning trigger, newer ones saying its not that much.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



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Re: Should the FC be rotated? [Re: spacechildo]
#21360113 - 03/04/15 09:13 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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the question really was if- direct blue 6500k specrtum light aided in a better pinset formation rather than effects at any other point of a grow. specifically about this time frame of the mushrooms cycle and not so much at other stages.
i dont think anyone was really talking about effect of spectrum on aiding hyphal knot formation in that thread but rather the overall effects on fruit-body growth at later stages and about effect of the lack of light in respect of fruit health. i may be wrong but i couldnt find any information about my specific question. 
its ok anyway i found the answer and that is there is not enough evidence to say either way at this moment in time
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