Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomMan Mycology
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   OlympusMyco.com No Unicorns Here—Just Quality Bags That Work   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore Bulk Substrate

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
OfflineChowder
Human
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 256
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? * 1
    #21345301 - 02/28/15 05:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)



As you can see in my gallery (can you see actually?), my monotubs are just a series of contamination or bad pinsets with low yield.

This last one I thought it was perfect. I had clean consolidated PF cakes, crumbled using clean gloves. I had cleaned my tub with hot soapy water and wiped with IPA afterwards. For substrate I used Frank's proper pasteurization tek to the T.

The only thing I thought I might be doing wrong was the level of substrate moisture - something that cannot be conveyed accurately in instructions. I can only subjectively rely on the squeeze test.

I thought maybe my sub was too moist, so in this last tub that you can see above, I was really optimistic that making my sub drier was the thing I was missing. Still, fail!

Are there any extra-steps that I can take? Does it help if I pasturize my sub for longer? Is it my coir to blame or is it the mould in my house to blame?

I'm chuffed to have done my first easy-agar tek from spores, and now I have 12/15 clean fully colonised rye jars - from agar wedges. Considering  the tens of jars I got wrong in the past, this is an overwhelming success. No way I'll ever inject spores in my rye again. (Also, I was very much looking towards doing clones on agar for the first time, from the fruits that I failed to get above.......)

But I'm so afraid of losing them to trich. again. I dont wanna see 3 beautiful monotubs ruined. No to mention all the coir/verm/gas wasted.

Where do you think I'm getting it wrong?
I dont think I've ever needed shroomery's advice as much as now.

At this point I'm tempted to go back to SGFC again, just to get fruits and my confidence back. But I dont have the time to spray/fan 3x/day anymore.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinetheBitterBuffalo00
Seeking


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 109
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: Chowder] * 1
    #21345331 - 02/28/15 06:00 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Do youhave anything covering the substrate while colonizing? It looks like it came in through the polyfill...


--------------------
 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsyke101
Test Subject


Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 748
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: theBitterBuffalo00]
    #21345356 - 02/28/15 06:08 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

If your bulks subs are contaminating prior to a first flush then usually I think its a result of contamed grain, or improper pasteurization of the bulk sub mixture.

You say that you have been following a good pasteurization tek and doing it properly so assume that your bulk sub is ok (out of interest what ingredients are you using in your bulk sub?).

Are you confident your grain spawn is contam free?

After spawning to bulk how long to you leave the bulk substrate to fully colonize before introducing fruiting conditions?


--------------------
Useful bulk substrate calculator

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineChowder
Human
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 256
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: theBitterBuffalo00]
    #21345364 - 02/28/15 06:11 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I have my holes taped during colonization.
My previous attempt was identical (except this time I had less moisture in my sub), and the contamination stared in the middle.
How would it get in through the hole if it was fully colonised?

psyke101 Yes, I am confident the spawn was clean, since I was using crumbled PF cakes. Even if the contam was hiding in the middle of the cake, it would have had a chance. Sub is coir/verm/gypsum, exactly like Frank's proper pasteurization tek. Colonization time was 11 days.


--------------------

Edited by Chowder (02/28/15 06:12 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreeWorldOrder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA Flag
Last seen: 11 months, 20 days
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: Chowder]
    #21345398 - 02/28/15 06:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chowder said:
I have my holes taped during colonization.
My previous attempt was identical (except this time I had less moisture in my sub), and the contamination stared in the middle.
How would it get in through the hole if it was fully colonised?

psyke101 Yes, I am confident the spawn was clean, since I was using crumbled PF cakes. Even if the contam was hiding in the middle of the cake, it would have had a chance. Sub is coir/verm/gypsum, exactly like Frank's proper pasteurization tek. Colonization time was 11 days.




Just because they were PF cakes doesn't mean they were clean. Sometimes a contam doesn't show until after spawning or even after substrates have colonized and have been introduced to fruiting conditions. It depends on what the contamination is.

It could very well have been contaminated/dirty spawn or improperly prepared substrate. Or a dirty spore print, syringe, or culture.


--------------------
"They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK
Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK

Edited by FreeWorldOrder (02/28/15 06:23 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineChowder
Human
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 256
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: Chowder]
    #21345420 - 02/28/15 06:29 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

So you're saying that even if the cakes look/smell perfectly fine, it can still have contamination. What shall I do in this case, just give up completely?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreeWorldOrder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA Flag
Last seen: 11 months, 20 days
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: Chowder]
    #21345429 - 02/28/15 06:34 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chowder said:
So you're saying that even if the cakes look/smell perfectly fine, it can still have contamination. What shall I do in this case, just give up completely?




Yes... I am saying that is possible. A bacterial infection usually smells off. But it may have something else.

If they smell good I would maybe look at your substrate prep procedure...:thumbup:

The best thing to do is follow good sterile procedure and make sure you have a clean print, syringe, whatever you are using.

Also make sure the substrate is prepared properly.

Agar is a very helpful thing to learn. Then you can deal with known, clean mycelium.

Are using a still air box? What methods are you using to inoculate? What are using? MS, LC?


--------------------
"They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK
Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK

Edited by FreeWorldOrder (02/28/15 06:38 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsyke101
Test Subject


Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 748
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #21345441 - 02/28/15 06:38 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FreeWorldOrder said:
It depends on what the contamination is.




It looks like he is having trouble with trich judging by the image he posted.

Quote:

Chowder said:
I have my holes taped during colonization.
My previous attempt was identical (except this time I had less moisture in my sub), and the contamination stared in the middle.
How would it get in through the hole if it was fully colonised?





It wont be anything to do with something getting in through a FAE hole, its most likely to be contamed spawn or improper pasteurization of bulk sub mixture.

Quote:

Chowder said:
psyke101 Yes, I am confident the spawn was clean, since I was using crumbled PF cakes. Even if the contam was hiding in the middle of the cake, it would have had a chance. Sub is coir/verm/gypsum, exactly like Frank's proper pasteurization tek. Colonization time was 11 days.




When you spawn to bulk, crumble your spawn into the monotub first and have a real close look at it. Crumble it up, smell it and really look closely to see if there is any form of contam in the center of the cakes that you couldnt previously see. I think thats probably your most likely source of contam.

The bulk sub ingredients you're using are not prone to contam. If you were using coffee grounds or manure then you might have higher risk of contam from your bulk sub mix... but coir/verm/gypsum should be fine, even when pasteurized with bucket tek. So using proper pasteurization they should be super fine..

One comment Id make is that maybe your colonization times are a bit on the short side. 11 days is pretty quick. In the pic you posted it looks like the bulk sub could easily stand to colonize/consolidate for a few more days before being fruited. Thats not necessarily related to the problems you're having.
When your tubs trich out... when exactly does it occur, like at what stage? After you introduce fruiting? How many days?.. give details.

What size are your bulk subs? How deep? How many quarts? And what ratio of spawn:bulk sub mix?


--------------------
Useful bulk substrate calculator

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStromriderM
This must be the place
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,350
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say... Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: psyke101]
    #21345458 - 02/28/15 06:42 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Definitely sounds like dirty spawn.

Why can't you use grain? No pc?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreeWorldOrder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA Flag
Last seen: 11 months, 20 days
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: psyke101]
    #21345462 - 02/28/15 06:43 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Duh, my bad.

It could have either came from print, syringe or the substrate. Hard to say 100%.

But, most of the time if it's a trich infested syringe the jars will turn green before birthing. I would lean towards the substrate preparation.

Sorry, kinda tired...lol.


--------------------
"They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK
Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinehamloafM
Q-dood ®©™√
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 24,389
Loc: ation: Based.
Last seen: 21 hours, 46 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: Chowder]
    #21345463 - 02/28/15 06:43 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chowder said:





Gross.  Looks like it started right underneath the polyfill, spreading out radially into the center of the substrate.  Anaerobic environments are a possibility too if the polyfill was in anyway pressing against the substrate during spawn run (colonization of the bulk substrate).


--------------------
     
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.

Edited by liquidmyce (02/28/15 06:52 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineChowder
Human
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 256
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: Chowder] * 1
    #21345487 - 02/28/15 06:53 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the replies first of all, it feels amazing to get all this quick support.

Yes, I did smell and inspected the cakes really close upon spawning. I know how clean spawn should smell, and it was definitely it.

Will pasteurizing for an extra 30 min be a extra-step for safety, or would it make it worse?

The trich appears just after I put it in fruiting - I saw the first signs maybe 3-4 days after. I never saw contamination during colonization. I did ask on forums whether my tub is ready for fruiting and all the replies were to go for it. I shall leave it longer maybe next time.

I used 23 soaked half-pint cakes (MS) and 7 quarts of sub (half brick of coir + 2qts of verm)

Depth of substrate is about 12 cms.

As I said, I do have 12 clean rye jars from agar wedges to be spawned. But I dont wanna see 3 monotubs in the same state...

Thanks again! <3


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineChowder
Human
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 256
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: hamloaf]
    #21345489 - 02/28/15 06:55 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Polyfill was introduced after colonization, and is not touching the sub at all.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecamplo
Freedom!


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 1,675
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: Chowder]
    #21345505 - 02/28/15 07:00 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I'm always interested to help these type of cases, helps me keep myself on my toes. If you are certain your spawn is clean I will be the second person in the thread to tell you that your bulk prep is the problem. Whether it be ph balancing or the actual pasteurization process. With adjustment of the temp you can process for longer which will allow heat to conduct more deeply into the substrate, as well, you can pasteurize more than once even though most will tell you its over kill.

Ummmmm I have been focusing on developing my process to remove bulk substrate all together. Super cake is probably the only bulk sub that has a significant amount of nutrients to add, some people have concluded that for the most part bulk sub just acts as a way to hold and provide water, thus, spawning to straight vermiculite will result in a less nutritious material.

Ummm look into slurry. The inoculation of a slurry to bulk substrate, I think, results in less contams for the fact that the sub has so many inoculation points and colonizes so much faster and better leaving little room for contam, just my theory though.

Ummmm the one other thread I read of yours, you had contamed agar...with bacteria...and someone questioned you and your sterile technique, to which you had no reply....so who knows wtf you are doing.

And last, this all came from prints...that you made?

ps- if you've had many contams already in this houshold its a chance your room is spore ridden? invest in a flowhood or maybe by a furnace hepa filter and duct tape it to a box fan?


--------------------
:three:

Edited by camplo (02/28/15 07:02 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSoupSandwich
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 4,440
Loc: Lost
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: Chowder]
    #21345513 - 02/28/15 07:03 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I'm a noob so take this well salted but how are you crumbling into your monotub?
You said it started in the middle, even though the pic shows contamination right
under the fresh air vent, which you said you taped.

What I'm saying is,
maybe your sterile technique between crumbing the cake into the new substrate was  the culprit?

Good luck next time,
SoupSandwich :peace:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecamplo
Freedom!


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 1,675
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: SoupSandwich] * 1
    #21345522 - 02/28/15 07:05 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

No the tub before started in the middle, this tub the contam started by the poly fill, you read it wrong.


--------------------
:three:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlgo
Backstrap Fever


Registered: 12/15/14
Posts: 3,857
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: camplo]
    #21345528 - 02/28/15 07:08 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

maybe you should use a higher spawn to bulk ratio so it colonizes faster. maybe IDK. try mixing spawn with bulk in a different area.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineChowder
Human
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 256
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: Chowder]
    #21345529 - 02/28/15 07:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

camplo, thanks for the input.

Yes, it al comes from prints that I made in the cleanest environment I could provide. Wiped the foil with IPA and everything.

The bacteria in rye jars came from injecting spores not agar.

What do you mean by ph balancing of the sub.

What is supercake? Slurry, as in LC?

I did cakes in SGFC many times, with my own syringes and innoculations in SAB. Only had contamination after first few flushes. I feel really confident with my clean cake-making skills. That's where all the frustration.

Nobody replied whether increasing the pasteurisation times would do any good?

Also, I was reading about trich. infested coir bricks. I get mine off ebay from some ganja-growing suppliers. Could this be it?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
The Pride of Cucamonga
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 8,269
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: Chowder]
    #21345554 - 02/28/15 07:19 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chowder said:

Will pasteurizing for an extra 30 min be a extra-step for safety, or would it make it worse?





Its counter productive to pasteurize past 1 hour, its not the time thats the issue.

If you're already working with agar, try to get your spores germinated on agar instead of injecting into cakes, that way you will know if your syringes are clean and you will be working with clean cultures.

Try using WBS, rye, or oats. Im sure this will take care of the problem, also make absolutely sure that the core of you're jars are reaching pasteurization temps for 1 hour, no longer.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSoupSandwich
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 4,440
Loc: Lost
Re: My last monotub failure - I don't know what I can improve on anymore....!? [Re: camplo]
    #21345555 - 02/28/15 07:20 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

camplo said:
No the tub before started in the middle, this tub the contam started by the poly fill, you read it wrong.





Thanks, you are right, I read it wrong. Still wondering about sterile procedures while crumbling though, but if it started right by the air vent...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   OlympusMyco.com No Unicorns Here—Just Quality Bags That Work   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore Bulk Substrate


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* To cut the cake or,crumble when casing? sporechase13 3,011 7 08/15/01 09:27 AM
by Billyblastoff
* Crumbling Onto Perilite PlowKing 959 6 07/23/01 05:40 PM
by PlowKing
* crumbling cakes ques. mahookah 1,310 3 09/11/01 11:58 PM
by oscill8
* complete failure
( 1 2 all )
doozer 2,537 21 07/12/01 01:56 AM
by geokills
* Re: FAILURE at every turn Crasher 372 1 05/01/01 05:09 PM
by Crasher
* To crumble or not? Anonymous 1,204 7 03/17/02 01:38 PM
by GaNjAShRooM
* Improve you glove box- Angel_Magic79 761 2 10/05/02 12:47 AM
by Angel_Magic79
* do u guys think i should do a crumble and case? Ration 827 1 08/05/02 07:27 PM
by Peace_Patrol

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, hamloaf, cronicr, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
4,744 topic views. 23 members, 104 guests and 71 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2025 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 14 queries.