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Offlinewrestler_az
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need to explain shrooms to dad...
    #2134066 - 11/25/03 02:56 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

this may be a dumb question, and i think i already know the answer, but recent events have led me to the decision to ask you guys for your input.


my extea curicular activities involving mushrooms have recently come to light with my father. he really has no say in what i do with my life since i am now and have been of legal age to make my own decisions, but this upsets him none the less. ive tried to sit down with hom and explain to him why i do what i do, and try to explain to him that alot of what he thinks he knows can be summed up to as urban myths...but my atempts at reasoning with him have failed dramaticaly.

he swears up and down that some day im going to eat some shrooms and never come back. he believes this will happen, regardless of size of dose and frequency of use....that one day im just going to end up stuck for no apparent reason. i disagree with this, but he claims that this has happened to a few of his friends. i dont know if hes telling me the truth, or if its just a partial truth, or if its an outright lie...in any case, our conversations come to a hault when he brings this up. i dont know what to say. i feel like telling him hes full of shit, but i dont really have the knowledge to back up my claim.

so basically, what im asking is what is the best corse of action for me to take here? when i talk to him about this, my brain seems to shut down after a few minutes and i cant put my thoughts into words (i think this has to do with intimidation/fear of letting him down...yet trying to hold onto my own beliefs at the same time) how can i help him realize that my tripping 4 to 6 times a year is not putting me at a significant risk of permanent psycosis? better yet, is this even possible...or is he trapped so deep in societies views on drugs that i may as well give up on him? or is there some truth to what hes saying? this whole situation confuses and frustrates me....


--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Offlinestefan
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: wrestler_az]
    #2134153 - 11/25/03 03:57 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

yeah this is always a difficult subject. I told my father too about 2 years ago; I showed him I grew shrooms. (I was still living in his house but it isn't illegal here.)
first he said I was crazy but after a week he started to ask questions like what they do and if it's bad for you how they work etc. pretty uncomfortable conversation to talk to your dad about drugs you take and grow :smirk:
Well, but on every question I had an answer and when you seem to know what you're doing it's less of a problem. Like when you tell things like psilocibin resembles the neurotransmitter serotinine in the brain etc bla bla...  then he'll know you know your stuff and you're not just eating something you don't know anything about.

maybe let him read some things on erowid?

good luck :cool: 


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: stefan]
    #2134171 - 11/25/03 04:10 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

ya, i do know (to a certain extent) what im talking about....but for some reason when it comes time to talk to him about it i freeze up and sound like a dumb ass.

everything goes fine, till he pulls out his "i have had friends not come back" card...how do i counter that? do i call his bluff and tell him hes full of shit? is this really possible? i dont think it is, but i remember reading something like if you have an underlying mental illness that psilocybin can act as a trigger....but other than that i havent read anything that would state otherwise...



--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Invisiblemuhurgle
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: wrestler_az]
    #2134182 - 11/25/03 04:17 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

In my experience, most 'I had a friend that went perma fried' stories are bullshit. When questioned, most people admit that it's actually a friend of a friend of an aquintance (ie. not first hand information). Also, all real life cases I've ever heard of where people end up in a ward are cases where the subject never have been really stable and topped it off by doing excessive amounts of just about any drug they could get hold of (ie. not shroomed once, fucked for ever).

It would be interesting to see some real research on this subject, but the government isn't interested in harm reduction and won't pay for this any time soon.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2134189 - 11/25/03 04:22 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

It would be interesting to see some real research on this subject, but the government isn't interested in harm reduction and won't pay for this any time soon.






actually, here at the university of arizona they are testing subjects with psilocybin to see if it helps with obsesive compulsive dissorder.



--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Invisiblemuhurgle
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: wrestler_az]
    #2134198 - 11/25/03 04:30 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

Yeah, I heard. What I would like to see is research on the long-term effects of tryptamines though (I suspect there are none, if you're conservative with your dosages and careful with set and settings).

Anecdotal evidence like 'afoafoaf ended up in the mental ward after looking at an lsd blotter' doesn't really cut it.

Anybody know of any such research? Would be nice to counter your dads arguments with.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2134202 - 11/25/03 04:35 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Anybody know of any such research? Would be nice to counter your dads arguments with.





i agree....that was one of the reasons i decided to post. i figured if anybody knew of such a study, this would be the place to ask. i just need some evidence behind my arguments, otherwise theres no point, and we will keep talking in circles.


--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: wrestler_az]
    #2134225 - 11/25/03 05:08 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

This is a tough one but, it is important to have good, honest communication with your father and I admire you for at least persuing it as an option before flat out lying.

You need to study up... this will help you with your father, and it will help you with your friends on future trips. Many people study mycology here but, very few study tripping with the same vigor. If you want to have a case, you will need to study.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms.shtml is a great place to start.

"The Psychadelic Experience," by Timothy Leary is another great resource... really this book is to tripping what "The Mushroom Cultivator," is to cultivation.

Know your words and pronunciations... focus on the spiritual and psychological aspects of tripping. Look for specific information pertaining to people who "Never come down". Find out if your dad has ever tripped. This will help you know what type of vocabulary you can use when talking to him.

Search this board... there may be some good links to reputable tripping resources and, you may find them yourself sooner than you get replies here. Try to find info from reputable scientists, avoid the pro-drug websites if you can find similar info from the Associated Press, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CNN, Time, Newsweek and all the more "Respectable," sources.

Figure out a good way to explain ego loss to your dad. Don't freak him out. Let him know what you do while tripping is a spiritual, shamanistic event and, not just goofy fun (well, there is a lot of goofy fun too).

You may not win but, at least your dad will know where you stand and, you will know your truths about tripping and mushrooms. They simply, aren't harmeful if you respect them and use them wisely.

Good luck.

Keep us posted, I'll help however I can.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: wrestler_az]
    #2134291 - 11/25/03 07:58 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

> he swears up and down that some day im going to eat some shrooms and never come back.

He may be correct. We have all read the new stories about the guy down the street that ate shrooms and then went nuts and somehow died. Sometimes drugs cause the best of us to do unreasonable things. I am not trying to put you down, or say that you cannot handle you drugs... the same thing applies for me as well. Granted, the chances of this happening are very slim, but the possibility is still there.

With this in mind, try to understand his point of view. Once you can argue his side of the debate, you should be able to talk with him in a way that he can understand you. He may never like what you are doing, but at least he might understand why you are doing it.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineT0aD
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Seuss]
    #2134671 - 11/25/03 12:46 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Post deleted by TOaD


--------------------
Cuba Libre


Edited by stefan (11/25/03 12:58 PM)


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OfflineT0aD
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: T0aD]
    #2134684 - 11/25/03 12:49 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

wrestler_az : I think you should trip with your dad :smile:


--------------------
Cuba Libre


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OfflineEuphoria
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: T0aD]
    #2134875 - 11/25/03 02:06 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Maybe send him to this board? To this topic? Let him kind of mess around on the board, read some stuff, etc.

But if he is unwilling to make any effort to understand, it may be extremely difficult or impossible to make any ground. Either way, I wish you the best of luck.


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Offlinetrippinlizard
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: Rose]
    #2135270 - 11/25/03 05:00 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Figure out a good way to explain ego loss to your dad. Don't freak him out. Let him know what you do while tripping is a spiritual, shamanistic event and, not just goofy fun (well, there is a lot of goofy fun too).




if everyone understood that these can co-exist, it would make things alot easier.
the perma-fried stiuation, however, is difficult.
i know people that used to be smart, did way too many drugs without any respect to thier power, and now are completely apathetic, but i don't know anyone that is always distracted from the flowers growing out of your eyes and the elves dancing around them, but everyone has a story, so it's tough. good luck.

peace.


--------------------
fine. do what you want, but i'm drinking the water.


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Offlineummikko
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: wrestler_az]
    #2135334 - 11/25/03 05:26 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

wrestler_az said:
how can i help him realize that my tripping 4 to 6 times a year is not putting me at a significant risk of permanent psycosis? better yet, is this even possible...




It is possible. As people here said, psychedelic drugs can trigger an underlying psychosis.

This is without doubt the best book on hallucinogen research I've read. Maybe you could get your dad to to read it too. There are several excellent papers in it, written by scientists not drug users.



The blurry part says:

"A Symposium of the Swiss Academy of Medical Sciences

Lugano-Agno (Switzerland) October 21 and 22, 1993"


--------------------
"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsius


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Invisibleninetynine
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: trippinlizard]
    #2135367 - 11/25/03 05:40 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

straight edge people irk me sometimes. exspecally the ones that get drunk 5 times a week, but claim to never do *real* drugs. anyway, are you living with your father? it doesn't seem like he's gonna kick you out or anything, so it cool that he is at least that open. i think i'll go with everyone else and advise you to explaine it to him in the most informed way possible. sometimes when i try to have this same conversation with a straight edge friend, i'll bring up alcohol. all my friends drink, even the "straight edge" ones, so i tell them to imagine how bazaar it would seem if i tried to explaine to them what "drunk" feels like before they had ever been drunk. i also bring up the fact that alcohol *was* and illegal drug for a while way back during prohibition. i sometimes bring up the LD50 of mushrooms, and the LD50 of tylenol (a.k.a. Acetaminophen... liver failure anyone?).

hmm, i'm kinda stoned and starting to ramble... good luck man. let us know how it turns out.


--------------------

2,5-dimethoxy-4-astatophenethylamine


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: wrestler_az]
    #2135537 - 11/25/03 07:17 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

I'm sort of in the same situations as you. I wanted to grow mushrooms but because I live with my parents, I decided to ask my mom first since cultivation is illegal and if by some rare chance I got caugth I didn't wanna fuck over my family. She says that as long as I live in the house I can't grow mushrooms because if anything ever happened to me on them whilst still living under her care, she wouldn't be able to forgive herself. Actually, mid-way writing this post I went to eat dinner and had another talk about me growing mushrooms and she still holds to her same reasons." When you move out you can do whatever you like." Fine. I will respect that, I won't grow mushrooms in my parents house and it would be wise of you to respect your father's wishes as well, even though, like my mom, he may not understand your reasons for this. Our parent's concern's are over our safety and well being, and this instinctive human response may override any solid logic and reasoning you may present to them. It's not worth jeopardizing your relationship with him over mushrooms, so either don't grow/eat mushrooms until you move out, or you can risk it like me and not tell your dad about your use and hope you don't get caught. Yes, I know it sounds hypocritical but I've thought it over and I first want to have a decent mushroom trip (i've tried only 1 gram) before I wait until I move out and grow them. Well, good luck with you. later


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OfflineTheSlapnCapn
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: ninetynine]
    #2135588 - 11/25/03 07:35 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

99- you should tell your "straight edge" friends they have no edge to claim if they are drinking...

sorry this wasn't about the topic...
-j


--------------------
I promise to live, love, exist, and be, and hope that all life will love to be in existence with me. Also, fuck you.

-j


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: chodamunky]
    #2135596 - 11/25/03 07:40 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

I am 20 years old and living on my parents dime at college.  My mom is really down with pot smoking, she's even made such classic comments as "Why are you hungover? You know that woudln't have happened if you'd just stuck with the grass" and "hey, how much does an ounce of sinsemilla go for these days?" :lol:

Oficially, my dad is for legalization, but he's an ER doctor and sees the worst of the worst in terms of drug casualties.  Therefore, he really sweeps reason aside, and I don't blame him, i havne't seen the shit he's seen.  I've brought up mushrooms and psychedelics in a general sense, and i've made it clear that they fascinate me, but I've yet to admit that I sporadically partake, and that they've changed my life in such a significant and positive way.  Both of them comment on my sudden increase in maturity.  "You're just a great kid to be around now Cody?  What happened?"  I have, as of yet, held me tongue, and only thought silently "I learned about love from a lifechanging psychedelic experience :heartpump:"

So I'm in the same boat as you, my dad, with a wealth of medical knowledge, still insists that mushrooms "KILL BRAIN CELLS"  :nonono: while still being intelligent and reasonable in basically all other areas.  Tell me how it goes, cause I'm trying to figure out how to do the same without getting cut off  :eek:


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________


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InvisibleXochitl
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: wrestler_az]
    #2135606 - 11/25/03 07:44 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

I would also recommend having your father read Food of the Gods by Terrence McKenna. Go pick him up a copy and let him read at his leasure. The book is an easy read that should help open his mind about psilocybes (and other natural entheogens).



--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: need to explain shrooms to dad... [Re: Xochitl]
    #2135617 - 11/25/03 07:47 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Yea, great idea! I just finished that book, I hope I can get my dad to read it. I bet he will.


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________


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