|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
Junior Fungus
Golden Student



Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 352
Loc: Québec
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
|
Does a contam typically cause weak fruits?
#21339593 - 02/27/15 05:54 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
My last KSSS monotub gave one big flush and then stalled from contamination (looked like trichoderma).
I had read that fruits grown on contaminated substrates were supposed to still be edible, and they were, but SO WEAK!
Is the contam the cause of this loss of potency, or did I just get unlucky with genetics?
-------------------- My Grow Logs: Psychoactives Edibles & Medicinals
|
mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: Junior Fungus]
#21340017 - 02/27/15 07:50 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Probably genetics dude, but I dont really have anything to base that on haha
Except that its never happened to me 
It was an MS grow?
--------------------

Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A
|
Heisenburg
HOPE U LIKE WHAT U SEE!!!!



Registered: 02/24/15
Posts: 113
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: mushpunx] 1
#21340304 - 02/27/15 08:57 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I THINK it does make them less potent. I have nothing but experience to base that. In my mind, my reasoning is that it has an effect on the vigor of the myc. because there is a battle going on between your myc. and the contam. And the end result is your little shroomy soldiers are weak asses from battle.
(lol, i been smokin)
--------------------
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: Heisenburg]
#21340545 - 02/27/15 09:43 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Great question,
I also think it does like Heisen but maybe someone smarter will give us some insight.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
concrete_666
fungus among us


Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 654
Loc: the land of the free
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: taGyo]
#21340635 - 02/27/15 10:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Which came first, the chicken or the egg? If heaven was perfect, how was there a fallen Angel, before sin?
|
mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: concrete_666]
#21340910 - 02/27/15 11:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Would it be the same for like late flush mushrooms too then?
--------------------

Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A
|
wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: mushpunx]
#21340921 - 02/27/15 11:23 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I had a bacterial TC tub last year that is pretty potent. Doesn't mean much, but they aren't weak by any means.
|
Heisenburg
HOPE U LIKE WHAT U SEE!!!!



Registered: 02/24/15
Posts: 113
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: mushpunx] 1
#21342689 - 02/28/15 11:19 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mushpunx said: Would it be the same for like late flush mushrooms too then?
I have been told by friends that my late/last mushies are not as good as my earlier mushies.
--------------------
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: Heisenburg]
#21342709 - 02/28/15 11:22 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Funny Heisenberg, I hear the opposite all the time.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
Heisenburg
HOPE U LIKE WHAT U SEE!!!!



Registered: 02/24/15
Posts: 113
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: taGyo]
#21342747 - 02/28/15 11:30 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
taGyo said: Funny Heisenberg, I hear the opposite all the time.
 Weird. I would love to know if there is anything to it.
Anyone else, thoughts, input?
--------------------
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: Heisenburg]
#21342760 - 02/28/15 11:32 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I can't wait till kits come out so we can test the damn potency of our shrooms.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
randoman
KING



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 2,311
Loc: North East side.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: taGyo]
#21343182 - 02/28/15 12:57 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride. Hunter S. Thompson
The Noob Forum Getting started 
Wanna Trade?
|
Guardian187
Neophyte


Registered: 11/29/14
Posts: 716
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: taGyo]
#21343416 - 02/28/15 01:56 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
taGyo said: I can't wait till kits come out so we can test the damn potency of our shrooms.
Group buy a GC/MS
|
Toadstool5
A Registered Mycophile



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: Guardian187]
#21344793 - 02/28/15 05:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I think bacteria does slow down mushrooms and therefore weakens potency but if the contams aren't weakening the mycelium much the subsequent flushes could become more potent due to the saprotrophic digestion supplying more nutrients as the substrate is broken down.
If your substrate takes time to break down, later flushes should be better. If bacteria sets in and weakens the mycelium the early flushes will be better.
Genetics always plays a role of course!
Quote:
Group buy a GC/MS 
I'll start saving! Who's garage can we set it up in?
-------------------- If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them.
- Paul Stamets
AMU Teks Stro's Write Ups
|
Junior Fungus
Golden Student



Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 352
Loc: Québec
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: Toadstool5]
#21348194 - 03/01/15 01:12 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Wow I'm glad I asked! Special thanks go to Heisenberg and Toadstool for their experience.
I think it would make a lot of sense for the mushrooms to be weaker once the mycelium is compromised by a contam like trich. If the mycelium is attacked by trich, it chooses to shoot up as many shrooms as possible right away in order to spread spores quickly and enable the species to survive. I believe that in this rush, the mycelium forms mushrooms that are not as healthy as the normal mushrooms, which results in a loss of potency. This is all conjecture for now, but I think it's plausible.
Of course in my case it may just have been genetics.
-------------------- My Grow Logs: Psychoactives Edibles & Medicinals
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: Junior Fungus]
#21348298 - 03/01/15 01:38 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
The strongest mushrooms I have ate came from bacterial substrates. 
then again strong is subjective and it depends on the genetics you fruit.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (03/01/15 01:39 PM)
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21348742 - 03/01/15 03:39 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
So I guess the consensus is it doesn't matter if it's contamed, the genetics will determine potency anyway
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,870
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: taGyo]
#21348879 - 03/01/15 04:12 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I think it would make a lot of sense for the mushrooms to be weaker once the mycelium is compromised by a contam like trich. If the mycelium is attacked by trich, it chooses to shoot up as many shrooms as possible right away in order to spread spores quickly and enable the species to survive. I believe that in this rush, the mycelium forms mushrooms that are not as healthy as the normal mushrooms, which results in a loss of potency. This is all conjecture for now, but I think it's plausible.
Doesn't make sense at all if you really think about it. However if mushroom health and potency are linked then I would have to assume aborts must be very weak
--------------------
|
taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: Kizzle]
#21348903 - 03/01/15 04:19 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
|
Boomer The Great


Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 5,504
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21349043 - 03/01/15 05:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
bodhisatta said: The strongest mushrooms I have ate came from bacterial substrates. 
then again strong is subjective and it depends on the genetics you fruit.
That makes me wonder if their are beneficial bacterias to mycelium and mushrooms. Just like we need certain bacterias in our digestive system. Maybe its wrong to say every bacteria is a contam.
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
|
|
the bacterial grows did horrible
|
Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,870
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
|
|
Quote:
Boomer The Great said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: The strongest mushrooms I have ate came from bacterial substrates. 
then again strong is subjective and it depends on the genetics you fruit.
That makes me wonder if their are beneficial bacterias to mycelium and mushrooms. Just like we need certain bacterias in our digestive system. Maybe its wrong to say every bacteria is a contam.
There are beneficial bacteria. It's the reason we pasteurize most bulk subs instead of sterilizing them. The problem isn't so much the bacteria themselves as the waste products and toxins they produce in large amounts while growing on highly nutritious spawn. Those same bacteria are harmless in smaller amounts.
As the mycelium colonizes the substrate it also changes which bacteria species are growing on the substrate. Some mushroom species can't even produce fruits without those bacteria.
--------------------
|
Junior Fungus
Golden Student



Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 352
Loc: Québec
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: Kizzle]
#21349984 - 03/01/15 09:37 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kizzle said:
Quote:
I think it would make a lot of sense for the mushrooms to be weaker once the mycelium is compromised by a contam like trich. If the mycelium is attacked by trich, it chooses to shoot up as many shrooms as possible right away in order to spread spores quickly and enable the species to survive. I believe that in this rush, the mycelium forms mushrooms that are not as healthy as the normal mushrooms, which results in a loss of potency. This is all conjecture for now, but I think it's plausible.
Doesn't make sense at all if you really think about it. However if mushroom health and potency are linked then I would have to assume aborts must be very weak 
Well that's a good point. If aborts are fine, then contam shrooms should also be fine. The problem would have to be mostly genetic.
-------------------- My Grow Logs: Psychoactives Edibles & Medicinals
|
Toadstool5
A Registered Mycophile



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
|
Re: Does a contam typically cause weak fruits? [Re: Kizzle]
#21350011 - 03/01/15 09:46 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Some mushroom species can't even produce fruits without those bacteria.
Isn't agaricus bisporus a prime example of this? It seems to only fruit with pasteurized compost.
Quote:
So I guess the consensus is it doesn't matter if it's contamed, the genetics will determine potency anyway 
It depends on what, when, and where the contam is. It could be beneficial, could be horrible. Some bacteria do somehow help with the digestion of the substrate. Genetics effect everything but we can not ignore the significance contams carry in a symbiotic relationship with cubensis and other species.
Quote:
If the mycelium is attacked by trich, it chooses to shoot up as many shrooms as possible right away in order to spread spores quickly and enable the species to survive. I believe that in this rush, the mycelium forms mushrooms that are not as healthy as the normal mushrooms, which results in a loss of potency.
Perhaps P. cubensis generates peroxides when threatened and the newer mycelial strands are slowly damaged by the free-radical ozone ions bouncing around. If mutations and cellular damage occur rapidly enough if could have a compounding effect on the ability to fruit and reproduce due to mitosis of the damaged DNA. This is simply conjecture and i am not nearly familiar enough with the anatomy and cancer of fungi, its anyone's guess as to why they are weakened by certain contams. It's probably a combination of waste/toxins, nutrient depletion, damage from "fights", or maybe simple overcrowding and spatial problems of the multiple colonies competing over an enclosed container and meshing together.
-------------------- If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them.
- Paul Stamets
AMU Teks Stro's Write Ups
|
|