|
majikProgramming

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 189
|
Neque aliquam vestibulum morbi blandit. Orci sagittis eu volutpat odio facilisis mauris. Potenti nullam ac tortor vitae purus fa *DELETED*
#21338464 - 02/27/15 01:30 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by majikProgramming
Reason for deletion: non calcare super me
Edited by majikProgramming (11/16/20 08:52 AM)
|
silverstem
Caps & Stems


Registered: 10/12/13
Posts: 900
Loc: jordan
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: majikProgramming]
#21338597 - 02/27/15 01:55 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Verm on top of grains is gonna cause problems... Such as when its time to shake you grains... Also when u transfer ur grains to LC ur gonna have to take the layer of verm off and the verm will have a bunch of mold and Endo spores on it by then. I say no its not a good idea.
--------------------
Shroomery needs a gun forum!!!!!!!!! CAN WE HAVE ONE?????
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: majikProgramming]
#21339013 - 02/27/15 03:34 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
majikProgramming said: So this may go in the advanced mycology forum, but this seemed more appropriate... there's nothing even close to advanced mycology about this
My first G2G went well with no contamination. However, my second time around I ended up with green mold, etc. After losing all that I'm looking to into different grow methods to eliminate contamination (in addition to looking into my sterile procedures). Basically, opening up a jar never seemed like the best idea to me but it worked. your master jar for g2g was probably bad g2g is way safer than lc if you're worried about contamination
Anyways, I intend on doing LC (or grain LC I think it's called) and switching over to self-healing ports, etc. Basically, I don't wanna open the damn lids until I spawn.
RR recommends SFD but I already have poly-fil and access to USPS tyvek (although some people didn't recommend this).if you're going to make a LC a syringe filter or SFD that is in a spot that wont get wet are your only options
When I did my first PFTek way back I remember that vermiculite was essentially the filter.
Could I put vermiculite in the top of my grain jars (that I'm transferring the LC to, not from) in addition to poly-fil? absolutely not
If I'm not using SFD what do you think is the best filter (combination)?use poly or tyvek then those are the only other two options, get better at using sterile technique, get better at g2g, and don't do a GLC
Thanks!
|
Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,870
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: bodhisatta]
#21339150 - 02/27/15 04:02 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Are you using a still air box?
--------------------
|
blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: majikProgramming]
#21339367 - 02/27/15 04:57 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
majikProgramming said: So this may go in the advanced mycology forum, but this seemed more appropriate...
My first G2G went well with no contamination. However, my second time around I ended up with green mold, etc. After losing all that I'm looking to into different grow methods to eliminate contamination (in addition to looking into my sterile procedures). Basically, opening up a jar never seemed like the best idea to me but it worked.
Anyways, I intend on doing LC (or grain LC I think it's called) and switching over to self-healing ports, etc. Basically, I don't wanna open the damn lids until I spawn.
RR recommends SFD but I already have poly-fil and access to USPS tyvek (although some people didn't recommend this).
When I did my first PFTek way back I remember that vermiculite was essentially the filter.
Could I put vermiculite in the top of my grain jars (that I'm transferring the LC to, not from) in addition to poly-fil?
If I'm not using SFD what do you think is the best filter (combination)?
Thanks!
Polyfil is fine.
I would recconmend these lids for the grain LC.

You can use these types of lids for the recieaving jars but you want the lid above for the making of grain lc.
Quote:
Zombi3 said: Because of money constraint I looked around for a SFD replacement and came up with this as a terribly cheep and seemingly highly effective replacement.
EZ felt. Its pressed polyfill. I get about 10 sheets of it for $1 and I can make 15 lids give or take with each sheet. RTV silicone for the SHIP just like any other tek. These jars do NOT need to be wrapped in foil before going into the PC. The felt does a great job of keeping water out.
Heres the Army:
 Colour coded to seperate strains or whatever.
Outside of lid:
 I cant remember the hole sizes but I dont think its a big deal. I did the SHIP like anyone would, small hole filled with RTV silicone on both sides. Cut circles the size of a quarter and use RTV to glue them to the lid over the larger hole for GE. I did two layers of felt for safety, I dont know if you can get away with one layer as I have not tried.
Inside of lid:

Mono Tub:
 This is also my now prefered method of filtered FAE for mono tubs. Its a permanent method though. Now I never need to buy more polyfill as my tubs have the perfect amount always glued tightly arround the holes. I did two layers of felt on the top holes and four layers on the bottom holes. I have also colour coded my mono's, I have 5 tubs done up this way. So far I have had no problems with this method and have a tub in fruiting I will post pics of soonly. Never worry about your polyfill falling out of your mono again! Always have the exact same amount of FAE on your mono run after run after run, no need to try and ball up the same amount of poly every time!
Jars lids in action:
  These were inoculated via open air G2G transfer, contam rate is very low, Ive lost only 1 jar out of 48 so far to cobweb. Most are fully colonized in a week.
Master Jars:
 Same lids, knocked up with a MS syringe, 4 weeks to fully colonize. This is what I used to knock up the other 48 jars. This is Z strain.
Some Myc:
 All of my jars are done using grass seed.
Here is the tek I have used several times
Quote:
agar said:
 Pint jar on right is multispore inoculated (SA). Allowed to colonize near 100%. Syringe is 60 ML w/18 gauge needle. Quart jar on left is sterilized water.
 Aspirated 60 ML sterile water into syringe.
 Injected 60 ML sterile water into colonized grain jar.
 Shook grain jar to liberate mycelium from grain.
 Injected total of 180 ML sterile water into grain jar. (shaking mildly between each injection)
 Aspirated out mycelium laden water from grain jar. (all I could aspirate out of the grain jar was 150 ML) Then, injected mycelium laden water back into sterile water jar.  Approximately 500 ML of Mycelium laden water.  (enough LC for approximately 50....10 ML syringes)
The advantage of this procedure is that you can be assured. The culture in clean. Because you can VISUALLY inspect colonization in the grain jar. (if there is FUNK, you can see it )
That is not the case, with sugar type LC's. (multispore syringe inoculated) They can be contaminated, from day 1. And, you NEVER know it.  Until you inoculate spawn jars with that LC. Then, have every single spawn jar GO SOUTH.
I was testing out Agar's LC tek for the first time. As you can see in my post where I am dunking the cakes that their are 12 half-pint, regular mouth PF cakes + the qt cake. So I was able to get 100% success rate with this method on my first try. May not be as fast as other methods but better than MS IMO. Slurry seems to be my new favorite method now though for expanding large amounts of grain spawn in breath taking speeds. I would like to add that I did Agar's tek in open air, taking advantage of the SHIP in the jars. I went on to use his method for at least a hundred other jars with no contams. In open air for any new member who may be reading this. The SHIP's provide an easy way for beginners to inoculate jars and create LC with ease. I know many other members may disagree but I have to question if they have even used SHIP's before and are just trying to promote their own methods and discrediting others without trying them. I can't say I have ever gotten a contamination following this method. Granted, gotta be able to know what a healthy jar looks like which is important to know and this method is actually a good way to see if a questionable jar is actually contaminated. Just make the LC and test out on some agar or other nutrient rich material.

By using this method and taking advantage of the SHIP in the jars I was able to bring my success rate of about 85% of doing open air G2G (bacteria contams suck) to 100% using this LC in open air. I am now a fan of slurry now b/c the colonization times blow my mind and I have some ideas to take advantage of the slurry method as do several other TC's on this site.
You can get by with less but contam rates may go up.
|
majikProgramming

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 189
|
Neque aliquam vestibulum morbi blandit. Orci sagittis eu volutpat odio facilisis mauris. Potenti nullam ac tortor vitae purus fa *DELETED* [Re: bodhisatta]
#21339869 - 02/27/15 07:15 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by majikProgramming
Reason for deletion: non calcare super me
Edited by majikProgramming (11/16/20 08:52 AM)
|
blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: majikProgramming]
#21339892 - 02/27/15 07:22 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
majikProgramming said:
Wouldn't LC be less contaminate prone in theory? I have a PC I use.
By using agar grain tek, yes. The lids provide better protection then a SAB (although a SAB adds another layer of protection). As long as you can recognize clean spawn then your good.
signs of bad jars
- bad smell
- discoloration
- slime
- anything that does not look perfect
Can even shake the jar the day prior to test the grain jar that will be used for the lc. If their is good recover within 24hr then your good.
Example, Here is a jar shook at 15%, 48 hours after shaking. They more than doubled in growth.
Edited by blackdust (02/27/15 07:24 PM)
|
mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: blackdust]
#21339986 - 02/27/15 07:43 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Actually dude you want a good gap between your arms and still air box. Helps keep from stiring up the air inside
I doubt lid failure is whatd causing your contamination man, it could be your innoculant or getting in during G2G.
If your innoculant isnt clean, your master jar might appear fine but then trich will show itself after G2G if your lucky, in the tubs if your not. Could also get in during G2G.
Are you using agar?
--------------------

Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A
|
SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: majikProgramming]
#21340012 - 02/27/15 07:49 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
majikProgramming said:
I don't intend to contradict you - just trying to learn. Wouldn't LC be less contaminate prone in theory? I have a PC I use.
Just opening a lid seems so much more sketchy. What am I missing?
LC is not less risky. It seems so on the surface because you don't have to open the lid. But, this does nothing to prevent contams already in your spores. If you are going to make LC, make it out of a clean agar culture for best chance of success.
Sometimes it's not necessarily your G2G technique that caused the contamination. It could have been there from the get-go and just took a while to finally show up.
GLC is high risk because when we "sterilize" our grains, they are not truly 100% sterilized. GLC has many of the same contams as the grains do and they have a potential for flourishing in the liquid. The longer your GLC sits around, the higher chance of it contaminating.
My SAB
-------------------- The Basics
A little civility goes a long way
The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum
|
blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: SpitballJedi]
#21340144 - 02/27/15 08:20 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SpitballJedi said:
GLC is high risk because when we "sterilize" our grains, they are not truly 100% sterilized. GLC has many of the same contams as the grains do and they have a potential for flourishing in the liquid. The longer your GLC sits around, the higher chance of it contaminating.
Your reason for high risk is because GLC does not have a shelf life? I am just trying to understand your position.
|
SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: SpitballJedi]
#21340178 - 02/27/15 08:27 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SpitballJedi said: The longer your GLC sits around, the higher chance of it contaminating.
-------------------- The Basics
A little civility goes a long way
The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum
|
majikProgramming

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 189
|
Neque aliquam vestibulum morbi blandit. Orci sagittis eu volutpat odio facilisis mauris. Potenti nullam ac tortor vitae purus fa *DELETED* [Re: blackdust]
#21340189 - 02/27/15 08:30 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by majikProgramming
Reason for deletion: non calcare super me
Edited by majikProgramming (11/16/20 08:52 AM)
|
blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: SpitballJedi]
#21340284 - 02/27/15 08:54 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: blackdust]
#21340310 - 02/27/15 08:58 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
blackdust said:
Quote:
SpitballJedi said:
GLC is high risk because when we "sterilize" our grains, they are not truly 100% sterilized. GLC has many of the same contams as the grains do and they have a potential for flourishing in the liquid. The longer your GLC sits around, the higher chance of it contaminating.
Your reason for high risk is because GLC does not have a shelf life? I am just trying to understand your position.
Lets say a single grain in your master has endospores germinate. A far more common occurance than most people realize. It wasn't until I started to really drop a lot of colonized grains onto agar and messed with Muda bottles that I realized how common it can be. Anyway that grain is not going to cause a lot of issue if G2G or spawned. The number of other uncolonized grains it will have enough physical contact with to expand the bacteria will be fairly insignificant. However as soon as you add a large amount of water, a small amount of bacteria in one grain, will expand (not grow) through the water to contam a very large part of the grains it then comes in contact with. You may be able to identify that the spawn is bacterial before you spawn it. But your still out all that spawn and time. Not worth it.
Even then any cultivator that has been around the block knows that you can see a flush with bacterial spawn. I have seen lots of bacterial subs go for several flushes. At that point the culture has a lot to do with it. Aggressive genetics will overcome better. But you will see a greater incidence of molds moving in sooner than they would normally. GLC can work. But there are better ways IMO.
Bacterial substrate
|
SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: blackdust]
#21340397 - 02/27/15 09:15 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
blackdust.
Actually, I'm not even here to talk to you. I'm here to give my opinion to the OP which he can take or leave. The constant challenging of opinions and squabbling by people like you are what makes Mush Cult suck sometimes and why I don't come here much.
You gave your opinion and I gave mine and we should both be able to freely do so.
I've given you the courtesy of leaving you alone as promised, I even defended you and respected you when you attempted to troll TNF, twice. but I guess that kind of respect is not a two-way street.
I've had the LC/GLC debate more times than I care too and there are plenty of other debates to be found on it. I'm not going to further disrespect majikProgramming by having another one on his thread. If you start finding Mush Cult to be tiresome, post your questions in TNF; you'll get the respect you deserve.
-------------------- The Basics
A little civility goes a long way
The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum
|
blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: majikProgramming]
#21340632 - 02/27/15 10:08 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Yup, like I said. Bacteria will be the hidden enemy.
Whyte, you just put up a 3/4 canopy and claim bacteria. I would like to point out that my definition of clean spawn is 1 dry ounce for 1 qt of spawn for the sake of having a quantitative discussion.
Quote:
majikProgramming said:
Quote:
blackdust said:
Quote:
majikProgramming said:
Wouldn't LC be less contaminate prone in theory? I have a PC I use.
By using agar grain tek, yes. The lids provide better protection then a SAB (although a SAB adds another layer of protection). As long as you can recognize clean spawn then your good.
signs of bad jars
- bad smell
- discoloration
- slime
- anything that does not look perfect
Can even shake the jar the day prior to test the grain jar that will be used for the lc. If their is good recover within 24hr then your good.
Example, Here is a jar shook at 15%, 48 hours after shaking. They more than doubled in growth.

Oh yeah I got the contaminate recognition down. If it doesn't look right I throw it away over risk it. Keep it separate from everything, etc...
So my master jar looked all cool but 5/6 of my jars are contaminated (well, maybe 4/6 one is debatable but it doesn't look normal so I'm trashing it).
I did set up a little tarp-tent today for working in, which I will use a SAB inside. That should help. My house is ancient and there's mold I know of (yay college).
I am letting the one good jar sit for longer than usual just to make sure. It's been colonized for about a week.
Thanks for the help! 
Do you recommend GLC or just GLC? I used WBS and corn last time - this time just corn. Might switch back to WBS. Have a massive friggin bag...
WBS would be better as the grain is smaller and has more inoculation points. If you see in my jars, I would have never got that kind of recovery from rye. Don't get me wrong though. I got 50lbs of popcorn for 23 bucks. I bought the popcorn because I think it looks better and is easier to handle as the grains are much larger.
Only uses the best of the best jar. 1 qt jar can make several hundred ml of glc. Just think, what would you do with all that lc? Well, what I did is that I inoculated over 100 qt jars of alt#7 stones. I mean, I couldn't let all the mycelium go to waste.
I started my stones with a print from a very well known cultivator. Make my MS syringes as shown in RR videos. Knocked up a grain jar with the MS syringe. Made glc from the grain jar. The grain jar lc made over 100 qt jars.
---- I have to ask. Have Spit or Whyte ever made an GLC as shown in Agars tek? Or is this Frank;s fuckup being repeated? - because we all fuck up. I very much appreciate your previous response whyte and is why I started posting. So I can see what other talented cultivator think. Your response have opened my eyes some more and I will take your information all day long. Well, mushroom information that is. I am sure hundreds of other people will read these responses over the years and decades.
|
SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: blackdust]
#21340655 - 02/27/15 10:15 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
blackdust said:
I have to ask. Have Spit or Whyte ever made an GLC as shown in Agars tek? Or is this Frank;s fuckup being repeated? - because we all fuck up. I very much appreciate your previous response whyte and is why I started posting. So I can see what other talented cultivator think. Your response have opened my eyes some more and I will take your information all day long. Well, mushroom information that is. I am sure hundreds of other people will read these responses over the years and decades.
I have. Thank you for asking. I wasn't aware of FH's GLC experiments. He must have posted them after I had washed my hands of GLC.
-------------------- The Basics
A little civility goes a long way
The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: SpitballJedi]
#21340712 - 02/27/15 10:33 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I will admit to not having made GLC. It can be added to the list of things I never did along with open air g2g and making a syringe. But I understand grain spawn. I know where the pitfalls of the media lie. If I used known grain and a clean wedge as inoculate, I am sure my chances of success would be at least 95%. But the idea that a syringe inoculated unknown grain spawn has the same chance of success is naive. So if I am gonna take time to colonize a grain master with a clean wedge with a strong culture, why not just make an LC? Takes less time to colonize and has a vector removed. Use is the same.
GLC was put forth as a way of verification of a clean liquid inoculate. Unfortunatly its not. Certainly not to a novice who would see that as an easy way to cut corners.
While that bacterial mono I posted might look good to some, in my eyes and knowing that culture the way I do, its fallen way short. Should be wall to wall if the spawn was clean. My point was to show that just cause you see an oz per quart and two or three flushes, don't mean shit. Compare with a known culture if you want definition.
|
blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21340841 - 02/27/15 11:03 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I just have a really hard time understanding this and I really want to see this threw your perspective. I keep track of your notes. I'm like, a fan.

What makes you believe what you are saying? intuition? Shroomery experiences?
1. Whats considered a clean culture? aggressive/speed? 2. How do you make your LC's! Maybe the OP can make one. Maybe I can too.
--- Again, I would like to thank you for the time you are taking to respond. Their are many people who have these questions but don't post.
I would also like to mention that I would no way advise the above for anything but cubes and oysters. Their is a greater risk with GLC then agar/ but making enough GLC for virtually unlimited spawn, really fast and easy is worth the little more risk for some. I would also mention that I only make my own MS syringes so I know the sterile procedures I took.
hell, those jars I made were done in a bedroom, with no gloves, and steamed for 8 hours. I lost 2 jars out of 5. I test everything and I will test whatever your LC method is to the T.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: blackdust]
#21340876 - 02/27/15 11:11 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
A clean culture is one I can see is free of contams very easy to do with agar.
I'm not going to talk about my LC's here. I will say they can be very reliable if you have a solid grounding in sterile procedure. Agar teaches that better than anything.
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21342352 - 02/28/15 10:02 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Even when in the rare occasion I do use a syringe. I still take the lid off in my SAB rather than injecting through an injection port.
Taking the lid of in a SAB is not really any risk if your sterile technique is up to par. You can flame sterilize a needle but you can't flame sterilize a self healing injection port you can only wipe it with alcohol. either way though, I never put injection ports in my lids anymore, so if I have to use a syringe I do so by taking the lid off and squirting in.
|
SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: bodhisatta]
#21342373 - 02/28/15 10:08 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- The Basics
A little civility goes a long way
The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum
|
majikProgramming

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 189
|
Neque aliquam vestibulum morbi blandit. Orci sagittis eu volutpat odio facilisis mauris. Potenti nullam ac tortor vitae purus fa *DELETED* [Re: bodhisatta]
#21342715 - 02/28/15 11:23 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by majikProgramming
Reason for deletion: non calcare super me
Edited by majikProgramming (11/16/20 08:52 AM)
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,916
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Eliminating Contamination - mixing PFTek with Polyfil; ideas [Re: majikProgramming]
#21342766 - 02/28/15 11:33 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
no, but I stopped using them so there's no problems to be had when I'm not using them.
I never did have a problem, I just don't like the things. they suck, they fall apart after time, I'm used to taking lids off anyway
|
|