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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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cultivating unkown species
    #2133504 - 11/24/03 10:39 PM (13 years, 14 days ago)

ok guys, I made some spore prints of some beautiful wood saprophytes I found at around 1100m above sea level or so. I have plated these on PDA + Amp and hyphae grows at room temperature. Hyphae grew faint and whispy at first (most likely because it was haploid) but has now become a thick mass of white (possibly dikaryotic) mycelium. My next step is to transfer this to a wood substrate. The problem is that I didn't know what kind of wood these mushrooms were fruiting on. I wonder if there are any woods or substrates that are suitable for a broad range of basidiomycetes. Any help would be appreciated.


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: cultivating unkown species [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #2133777 - 11/25/03 12:48 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

It depends I would say on what it was growing on...obviously.

Id imagine as long as you got the general type of tree mulch, it would be alright...(hardwood, conifer...)


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: cultivating unkown species [Re: angryshroom]
    #2134271 - 11/25/03 07:01 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Why dont you try to identify them? Then it would be easy to lookup the special needs of this species in a book.


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Offlinepluteus
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Re: cultivating unkown species [Re: ragadinks]
    #2134285 - 11/25/03 07:47 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

alder is an excellent all-purpose wood, and not just for hardwood species - many species adapted to degrading conifers will grow happily on alder in the absence of competitors - but it will not work for everything


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: cultivating unkown species [Re: ragadinks]
    #2135008 - 11/25/03 02:58 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Unfortunately it would be easier to try to cultivate them then identify them. I no longer have any specimens and I collected these guys in a very remote part of the Caribbean. I made spore prints of several specimens I found. I am not going back for some time, and I know no one else will be in that particular spot for a long time. Who knows if anyone will ever look at the mushies there. Of course these could be very common, but that's why I want to grow them out. So Alder is a good all purpose substrate, huh. Does anyone have an alder tek? I couldn't find anything in the FAQ that wasn't talking about outdoor cultivation.



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Invisiblemicro
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Re: cultivating unkown species [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #2135067 - 11/25/03 03:37 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

You have to grow the mycelium first -- maybe sawdust/bran???? If this works you can then try to case it + fruit it.

If you want, you can try to spawn alder chips and sawdust as a fruiting substrate with mycelium. Fruiting may be tricky, though -- if it's from the carribean use the outdoor temps it was there when it fruited, and slightly hotter temps to colonize and colonize in complete darkness. Humidity is high there, too, but temps stay around 80-85 all the time. Fruiting may be triggered by a rainy season, or something, too.

This isn't a very easy question to answer because a lot of important details are missing, so I guess the best thing to do may be to try different wood-based substrates until you find one that works.... Anno???

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Offlinezeronio
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Re: cultivating unkown species [Re: micro]
    #2136760 - 11/26/03 04:51 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

It's true that in nature certain species can be found only on certain trees but under artifical conditions you can fruit most of woodlovers on a wide variety of wood and they usually don't need casing.
If they were growin directly from wood then it would be the best to make wood dowels and inoculate logs with it. Otherwise prepare grain spawn -> sawdust spawn (without bran) and inoculate outdoor wood chips beds.
If you'll try to fruit it indoors then adding up to 10% of an additive (bran, oat meal) to wood chips might be a good idea.


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Offlinepluteus
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Re: cultivating unkown species [Re: zeronio]
    #2142623 - 11/28/03 06:28 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

It is possible, just impractical, to identify to genus and in many cases species level using just spore or mycelial material, but you'd need to be blessed with a lab.  This is something I do routinely.  Alternatively, there are some taxonomic centres (e.g., RBG Kew) that will do this for you.  If you pay their usually considerable fees  :frown:

sorry, some pretty useless comments there

 


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: cultivating unkown species [Re: pluteus]
    #2142996 - 11/28/03 09:07 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

My advice - from experience - is to streak it on agar and then try it on a number of different substrates. Ive found - as Pluteus as already suggested that woods like alder and beech can be safe for most of the Cyanescens type woodlover, but the weilli/aucklandii complex struggles on these.
I suggest a few wood batches, a few manure batches (works ok for semilanceata, weilli and aucklandii) and a few on rye grass seed. If there are particular types of wood substrate that you found this growing off, they would be an obvious choice as well. The more you diversify, the more likely you'll succeed.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: cultivating unkown species [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2143016 - 11/28/03 09:21 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

pluteus -- do you identify genus/species of fungi by PCR/restriction analasys? Or can you actually identify this by microscopy?

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Offlinepluteus
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Re: cultivating unkown species [Re: micro]
    #2144180 - 11/29/03 01:03 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

micro, yes, PCR is what I meant. There are some good references for identifying mycorrhizal species just from microscopic features of the mycorrhizal structures, but I've never tried this. I don't see how you'd reliably identify saprotrophs.

D'you use PCR? This is what I do...
Starting from spores, mycelium, or unidentified fruitbody, I generally cheat and use a DNA extraction kit (QiaGen Plant DNeasy kits work well for mushroom material cause the digestion phase enzymes degrade both cellulose and chitin), followed by PCR amplification, usually of nu LSU rDNA (in case anyone was wondering, some primers for mushroom PCR are available at http://www.biology.duke.edu/fungi/mycolab/primers.htm). If this is succesful I carry out sequencing reactions and then send the reaction mixture to a nearby sequencing lab (cost is very cheap per sample).

When the mushroom DNA sequence arrives back via email I nBLASTn it against the databases at the NCBI website (GenBank) and this usually results in a postitive ID or a match with a very close relative. If nothing very close matches (although this hardly ever happens) then there are other gene databases held by specialist mycology labs available for consultation.

On a few occasions, I've used this method to hone down my ID search after finding some bizarre mushroom or fruiting structure that I couldn't identify with a microscope. It's really quite nifty.


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