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Offlinetoolbox1977
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experience with rye needed please
    #21333444 - 02/26/15 02:45 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

My rye simmered too long and some have bursted.  Can I use some gypsum too keep the substrate from sticking together or do I have to start all over?

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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: toolbox1977]
    #21333566 - 02/26/15 03:07 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Good question.

As I was pointing out in another thread, if people grind their grains, isn't
that the same as having burst grains? Part of the benefit of keeping grains
whole is their hardiness and defense against things digesting them.

I have nothing constructive to add, in your place I'd likely start over.
Or, I guess you could just treat them as ground grains and use a different recipe?

Maybe someone smarter or with some experience will show up shortly...?

Regards,  :goodluck:
Mr.Sandwich

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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21333580 - 02/26/15 03:10 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Toolbox, you're becoming a toolbox:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20944873
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21332737

I even linked you a good rye prep. Instead of simmering for 45, boil for 10. If you keep an eye on it you'll have much less burst grains. As you're boiling and reaching the 10 minute mark start stirring and bringing out grains. When you notice a popped one cut the heat and dump.


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Edited by taGyo (02/26/15 03:10 PM)

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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: taGyo]
    #21333689 - 02/26/15 03:31 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Some don't even boil. Just soak overnight and lightly simmer.
If you can smoosh it between your fingers, it's good. That's my :twocents: anyways.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21333809 - 02/26/15 03:50 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I always boil rye at least 10m it needs to get hot enough to steam off. I skip the long soaks however.

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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21333859 - 02/26/15 04:01 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

To each their own, no boil, no burst grains. :shrug:
And you don't need a boil to get steamy grains...

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21333871 - 02/26/15 04:03 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

no but after a quick boil the whole grain is 212F through and through so it steams off longer. I prefer grains on the dryer side before PC so they don't stick together even if you don't use gypsum at all and they colonize faster, and discourage any bacterial endospore that may have survived to germinate.

Quote:

SoupSandwich said:
Good question.

As I was pointing out in another thread, if people grind their grains, isn't
that the same as having burst grains? Part of the benefit of keeping grains
whole is their hardiness and defense against things digesting them.




no it's not the same. you use grain flour and whole grains for much much different purpose. whole grains become inoculation points when used as spawn each grain is a little inoculation powerhouse for bulk substrate.

the grain flour is used to coat vermiculite in cake grows you can't use a cake as spawn reliably. people use cakes as spawn yes but if you make the move to bulk fuck cutting up cakes all the time for spawn, you soon get real and use whole grains.

Edited by Trusted cuItivator (02/26/15 04:08 PM)

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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21333880 - 02/26/15 04:05 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I like mine drier as well. The beauty of choice, amirite? You can do things differently and still get good results.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21333902 - 02/26/15 04:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SoupSandwich said:
I like mine drier as well. The beauty of choice, amirite? You can do things differently and still get good results.



sure but I'm not the one calling burst grains and grain flour the same thing. burst grains is a big problem for colonization, use as spawn, and encouragement of bacterial growth.

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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21333947 - 02/26/15 04:20 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

That's a matter altogether different.

Would you like to address it? I posed it as a question.


Quote:

SoupSandwich said:
As I was pointing out in another thread, if people grind their grains, isn't
that the same as having burst grains? Part of the benefit of keeping grains
whole is their hardiness and defense against things digesting them.




See? I'm still very much interested in what people think of this... thanks for reminding me.

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21333976 - 02/26/15 04:26 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SoupSandwich said:
To each their own, no boil, no burst grains. :shrug:
And you don't need a boil to get steamy grains...





I wouldn't take any advice from this person. But yes, to each his own.

Quote:

SoupSandwich said:
That's a matter altogether different.

Would you like to address it? I posed it as a question.


Quote:

SoupSandwich said:
As I was pointing out in another thread, if people grind their grains, isn't
that the same as having burst grains? Part of the benefit of keeping grains
whole is their hardiness and defense against things digesting them.




See? I'm still very much interested in what people think of this... thanks for reminding me.




Burst grains vs grain flour depends on what you are using them for. If my grains burst in a vermiculite cake, I wouldn't care. If I'm making grain spawn or grain masters, then too many burst grains make a sticky mess.


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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21333991 - 02/26/15 04:30 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Burst grains aren't that big of a deal if your sterilizer is works properly.  Mushroom mycelium LOVES all the exposed starches.  One problem, so does contamination.  Like I said though, if your sterilizer works properly, burst grains causing contamination is a wives' tale, ime/o.

But yea, grain flour's place in this hobby is for the generation of pf style cake growing.

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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #21334010 - 02/26/15 04:34 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Quote:

SoupSandwich said:
To each their own, no boil, no burst grains. :shrug:
And you don't need a boil to get steamy grains...




I wouldn't take any advice from this person. But yes, to each his own.





Because I wanted you to stop using abbreviations in the Noob forum and you threw a
hissy fit and closed the thread? :lol: Okay, that makes all my advise useless. So be it.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21334016 - 02/26/15 04:35 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

something tells me that's got 0 to do with the reason why he said that, but lets stay on topic.

a few burst grains won't hurt but too many and your spawn becomes low quality for spawning

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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21334027 - 02/26/15 04:38 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Will gypsum help out in this case? If say 1/10th are burst?

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21334031 - 02/26/15 04:38 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

it won't hurt certainly, it won't fix the problem. they might be a bit less sticky but if I had 10% burst I would start over

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21334036 - 02/26/15 04:40 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

:whathesaid:

gypsum only helps to a point with stickyness


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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21334047 - 02/26/15 04:44 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Gypsum works best if you add it to the soaking cycle.  I don't think adding gypsum at this point will have any benefit.  However, if you were to add gypsum to the soaking cycle the potential of the sticking together of the grains decreases, as well as, the grains becoming fortified with calcium and sulfur will occur.  Calcium and sulfur are two essential nutrients for the development of the mushroom culture.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: hamloaf]
    #21334068 - 02/26/15 04:51 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

yes. I've noticed that if I add gypsum any time after the soak, I have to use more to make it work to prevent sticking.


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Re: experience with rye needed please [Re: hamloaf]
    #21334071 - 02/26/15 04:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

If he were making cakes with this grain, say using the 'rez effect' / mixing
with vermiculite, then it wouldn't matter how many were burst, correct?

As it'd be the same as if he had ground up the grain?

Do I have that much right?

Thanks,
Sandwich

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