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Offlineesore
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IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek)
    #21331678 - 02/26/15 07:02 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

2 months ago I made 5 PF tek jars. 3 never did anything - no growth, no mold. 1 got moldy and the last one grew insanely slow.

I still have that one like 2 months later and it isn't fully colonized still. There's no bad smell that I can smell through the holes on top.

Here is the 2 month old jar right now:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfllgkcwkqpyojv/20150226_084445.mp4?dl=0
Nothing but white growth in the substrate.

(Please note that there is no lid. The tinfoil layer IS the lid and it has holes for GE. It's the method in the tutorial I followed)

On Feb 4th I made a second attempt with another 5 jars, and that time I followed the RR tutorial videos completely, and now after 3 weeks only one is growing like last time and it seems to be growing pretty slowly.

Here is the 1 jar showing growth after 3 weeks in my current batch.
http://puu.sh/gds9p/2f584d5b13.jpg


Should I start over for a THIRD attempt? What do you guys think I'm doing wrong?

If I smell mold when I empty them I'll know to be more sterile next time, but what if there is no smell or growth at all like my first batch? What could possibly cause that?

My room is usually 20 +- 1 degrees C


EDIT: Just opened one of the jars and there's no mold smell. It seems pretty dry though

Edited by esore (03/01/15 02:20 PM)

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OfflineMatt87
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: esore]
    #21331773 - 02/26/15 07:47 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

What's the ambient temp where they are being stored?


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Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi

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OfflineMatt87
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Matt87]
    #21331779 - 02/26/15 07:48 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

My bad, I skipped the last sentence.


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Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi

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OfflineMatt87
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Matt87]
    #21331792 - 02/26/15 07:53 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

OK, I check, 20c is 68f, I do think you're too cold. Try getting the room they are in to 73-76 range.

Full disclosure, I didn't look at your pics because I'm about out of data on my phone.


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Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi

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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Matt87]
    #21331820 - 02/26/15 08:03 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I would recommend first trying to raise the temp. In tradd cotters new book(which I highly highly recommend) he says "most fungi like to incubate at 77 degrees Fahrenheit.. How big are the holes it the tin foil?? U might also consider the moisture content of ur "pf substrate"( usually when referring to substrate, we are referring to the substrate which u have expanded ur jars of whatever kind into.. Straw or coir spawned w grain jars.. Ur straw and coir would be the substrate, and ur jars are the spawn...) if ur pf jars are too dry or too wet colonization will be slowed down.  I also would recommend doing grain jars for the simple fact that they colonize quicker. My grain jars are always done in 14 days tops. Usually 7-11 days when not starting from germinating spores in a jar... Also tyvek is cheap a makes great lids... "gentle paper tape" to cover ur hole in the tyvek from inoculation.. Never make LC from spores, u will get contaminats and possibly make people sick. LC from live tissue only. I'd say raise temp to get ur germination rates up. 77 degrees... Then maybe consider moisture content being too dry or too wet for how fast they're growing. Also maybe how dense u pack the verm/brf into the jars.. Too dense might equal slow growth. Just a thought, I've never done pf jars ever. Done lots of grain jars tho lol

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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Raven44]
    #21331854 - 02/26/15 08:11 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I was unable to look at ur pics, I have a windows phone and it wouldn't allow me to for some reason when I tried to look at em. I can have u e mail them or something if u feel itd help but I think the temps is ur main issue. If u got a jar to germinate tho at the current temps... And that jar still colonized real slow.. I'd def consider moisture content and density of ur pf jars to maybe be the second problem. If one of ur jars germinated, theoretically once that jar germinated it should have only taken a month give or take for that jar to fully colonize. Even at 68 degrees I think. In the past, looking at peoples pf pictures on here.. I seem to remember that pf jars sometimes don look completely white and taken over by the mycelium if u will. The mycelial growth is kinda stringy/whispy if u will. U see a lot of vermiculite still and not the more so solid white look u get from filully colonized grain jars... Maybe keep that in mind also?? That's everything I can think of

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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Raven44]
    #21331907 - 02/26/15 08:27 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

If u have never read the mushroom cultivator by Paul stamets it is a must. It has a contaminant section, which list many known mushroom culture contaminats that a mushroom grower might encounter. Growing mushrooms without being able to recognize the signs of a sick/contaminated mushroom is asking for trouble in my opinion. Much like growing pot about being able to recognize the diff contaminants /molds the can grow on improperly stored/cured herb. And if those contaminants/molds are pathogenic to humans. Pathogenic to humans means it can take hold and grow in a humans body and make a human sick worst case scenario possibly cause their death.. Not to scare anyone away from growing just get books read and educate urself.

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: esore]
    #21331916 - 02/26/15 08:31 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

The temperature isn't likely your issue. It may be a little slower than the upper temperatures, but not that slow.

Get some of the short wide-mouth jars instead of those tall ones. Once mycelium gets going well, it can stall in the tall ones, like you have.

You should have a proper lid. A proper lid helps hold in moisture so the cake doesn't dry out. That may be part of your problem.

You may have contamination which can prevent growth.

You could have gotten some bad spores. It happens.


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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Raven44]
    #21331922 - 02/26/15 08:35 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

One last thing.. U dont smell mold!! U can see it and if u see it.. Well, I surely wouldn't smell it if someone paid me.. The only way I feel comfortable smelling a jar is if the jar still has a lid on w a tyvek filter.. I shake the jar, after I'm.done shaking the jar I smell it by the filter gas exchange hole. U can smell it if u pay attention..  If u smell a jar and its contaminated w a pathogenic contaminate.. That contaminate might start to grow in ur body cause its pathogenic and u inhaled enough of it for it t take hold in ur body. So don't smell jars. U smell jars to detect bacteria that give an off foul smell to ur other wise pleasant smelling mycelium. Another way of Paul stamets to ensure your GRAIN jar is health and not contaminated.. Is to wait for full colonization. Once fully colonized shake the jars. Then wait 12-24 hrs. All healthy jars will have re-colonized within 12-24 hrs. If the jar never fully re-colonizes its bad dont use it for expansion at all garbage.. This is only applicable to grains jars tho u wouldn't wanna shake u pf jars..

Edited by Raven44 (02/26/15 09:00 AM)

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Raven44]
    #21331932 - 02/26/15 08:39 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Raven44 said:
Once fully colonized shake the jars. Then wait 12-24 hrs. All healthy jars will have re-colonized within 12-24 hrs. If the jar never fully re-colonizes its bad dont use it for expansion at all garbage..




OP is using cakes. Shaking is for grains, not cakes. Never shake a cake.


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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Raven44]
    #21331963 - 02/26/15 08:50 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah bad spores happens, I got one bad syringe out of the ten I've ordered. Ordering spores during hot summer months can be risky I like to order during the winter colder months ir just go to pike place market and get a print better yet. Since u got germination in one jar and not all the others id DEF try raising the temps a bit and id say ur spores are fine... U might have a slow colonizing strain or a strain that likes warmer temps more so. Def might be losing moisture from an improperly/leaky seal w ur tin foil on the jars. Make sure the foil is holding ALL moisture in for sure I second that. Maybe try also.., when u inoculate the jars.. Dont just let the spore solution drip down in one spot of the jar. Instead, try to disperse the spore solution in several spots. When inoculating u can heat syringe, poke through foil only making one hole, and squirt down one side of the jar 1/2ml move the needle to another spot in the jar and squirt 1/2ml down that side of the jar... So that when germination occurs u have 2 or more spots where the mycelium will grow from. This in theory should cause a more rapid colonization cause the 2 or more bodies of mycelium will run and fuse together.. U could just as easily inoculate and make four diff holes in the tin foil so u have four spots where u dispersed the spore solution, four individual spots where germination will occur this should speed things up I bet if u haven't already done this. I'd do four diff spots down the side of the jar and a little in the middle of the jar. 5 spots total. Maybe only use 1\4ml in each spot. Whatever u think is good for ur recipe..

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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Raven44]
    #21331971 - 02/26/15 08:54 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I meant to include that w the info my bad, ur using pf cakes so u don wanna shake them. But for grains its a great way to go. Thanks for making sure proper info is out there that's all I'm trying to do myself and might not have caught that.

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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Raven44]
    #21331982 - 02/26/15 08:57 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

The moisture content could be a hair off, if u are using medium grade germ and recipe calls for fine grade verm. Sometimes grains from diff sources have diff moisture contents... Could be true for one or more ingredients in ur recipe..

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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Raven44]
    #21332004 - 02/26/15 09:05 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I can look at ur second picture, but not the first. Sad, I see the pins lol... Bumer.. I want to go out on a limb and say it possibly looks a little dry in that jar. Make sure everything is properly moistened germ and all. Give u verm 30-60 minutes to soak up all the water its going to... Also when done pressure cooking, wait for the pressure cooker to naturally fall to 1psi. Dont vent the cooker and let air escape until after its below 1psi. If u do, ur losing moisture from ur pf jars in the cooker...

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Offlineesore
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Re: IDK what I'm doing wrong. Slow/no mycelium growth (PF Tek) [Re: Raven44]
    #21348428 - 03/01/15 02:16 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Raven44 said:
I can look at ur second picture, but not the first. Sad, I see the pins lol... Bumer.. I want to go out on a limb and say it possibly looks a little dry in that jar. Make sure everything is properly moistened germ and all. Give u verm 30-60 minutes to soak up all the water its going to... Also when done pressure cooking, wait for the pressure cooker to naturally fall to 1psi. Dont vent the cooker and let air escape until after its below 1psi. If u do, ur losing moisture from ur pf jars in the cooker...




I think that might have been it. Both times I took the lid off after the 90 minutes and vented. And when I took the foil off I saw little droplets on top of the jar. Could have have reduced the moisture content too much?


I just opened one of the jars and theres no mold. Smells like nothing other than earth and flour. It did seem a bit dry, but I don't really know what the right moisture looks like since I'm new.

http://puu.sh/gikip/4ec493a2e8.jpg
http://puu.sh/gikQ2/1107965a67.jpg

The stuff below the top layer was all stuck in a cake and I picked at it to scoop some out. The dry verm layer is not in either pic.

So I'll try again and this time I will let the pressure cooker cool overnight without opening it.

Any other things I should do? How can I make sure that I have the right amount of water, should I go with the 2:1:1 ratio or should I add water until there's slight pooling in the bottom?

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