Home | Community | Message Board


Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Brown Rice Flour, Portable Greenhouse, Vermiculite, pH Test Strips

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
OfflinemotamanM
old hand
 User Gallery
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 6,021
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe
    #2130577 - 11/23/03 04:01 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_mycology1.shtml


Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe
by Yachaj Paye
Nov 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the determination tables of the twentieth century (i.e. before the development of genetic fingerprinting) one of the key features to distinguish the mushroom genus Agrocybe from Psilocybe was the color of the spores. Psilocybe mushrooms have dark violet, almost black spores while Agrocybe spores are of a rusty brown ('fawn') color.

These pictures show the weakness in the classification of mushrooms along the lines of macroscopic features. Shown are the gills and the spores of the 'Psylocybe Fanaticus' redspore cubensis, compared to the spores and gills of a 'PF Classic' Psilocybe cubensis. The redspore is a mutation of the PF Classic mushroom which appeared in Psylocybe Fanaticus' lab (I believe it was somewhere in 1996). Robert 'Billy' McPherson (aka 'Psylocybe Fanaticus'), planned to release the new cubensis variety in the spring of 2003 along with the long awaited 2003 edition of the PF TEK book. Unfortunately the US Government decided to terminate the company www.fanaticus.com on February 18th 2003. During the raid, most of PF's unique collection of cubensis genotypes was seized and later destroyed.

This is the second time the DEA has almost destroyed the life work of a magic mushroom pioneer. The first time was in 1981 when the DEA raided the greenhouse of Stephen Pollock (discoverer of Psilocybe tampanensis and collector of a series of famous cubensis varieties such as the Mat?as Romero). In the Pollock raid, many unique mushroom strains were lost forever. But a copy of the Fanaticus collection was saved in time and sent in exile to Europe. The unique redspore was among the saved genotypes.




The redspored variety will not immediately be released to the public. The reason is that I first want to find out how to proceed to 'officially' secure Robert McPherson's name to attach to this unique mushroom variety. If it is classified as an Agrocybe then the name should be Agrocybe mcphersonii. It would be the first published example of a psilocybian Agrocybe. The other possibility is that it is the first published example of Psilocybe cubensis with fawn-colored spores. In that case it probably is a 'Psilocybe cubensis var. mcphersonii'. Or even Psilocybe cubensis var. fanaticus. Whatever the outcome of this classification and naming debate will be, this mushroom shows that the mycological determination tables of before the time of gene technology are flawed (unless we assume that an organism can change genus over a single generation).

Psilocybin was confirmed to be present in the variety and it appeared to have the same potency as Psilocybe cubensis.

The spore color is also a neat clearly visible feature which can bring the 'fanaticus' varieties of cubensis mushrooms out of the closet and to the classrooms (to do mushroom breeding experiments). It can serve a similar purpose for mushroom science as the eye color does in Drosophila flies and the color of the peas in plant breeding experiments. This is especially so because the cubensis is perhaps the easiest and fastest microscale cultivatable gilled mushroom known.

No matter what the official Latin name will be, I feel that the name Robert McPherson should be atttached to it, to commemorate the man who popularized the cultivation of psilocybin mushrooms. Twelve years after the publication of the Psylocybe Fanaticus Technique (September 1991) nearly all of the home-cultivated Psilocybe cubensis and a huge portion of the commercially available Psilocybe mushrooms are grown on a PF-style substrate. Evidence of that forms the vermiculite dust on the stems of the mushrooms (vermiculite is an essential ingredient of PF Substrate, a 'batter' of brown rice powder and water on which the mushrooms are grown). This substrate doesn't need a pressure canner and it was invented by Robert McPherson.

Unfortunately, it happens quite often that someone discovers a mushroom, sends it for identification to a mushroom expert and later finds out that the expert has named the mushroom after himself, or a friend or a family member of his. That should not happen here. For that reason the Psilocybe cubensis var. Mcphersonii aka. 'PF Redspore' will not be released until its name is secured.

Yachaj Paye








--------------------
http://heffter.org


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAnnoA
Experimenter
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/18/99
Posts: 24,121
Loc: my room
Last seen: 2 months, 12 days
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: motaman]
    #2131855 - 11/24/03 08:41 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Hmm...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineCallampin
Psyco Myco
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 520
Last seen: 7 months, 14 days
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: Anno]
    #2131875 - 11/24/03 09:07 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

is this info real? or maybe just a crappy fake? ihavent seen anything about this anywere recently


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefleshofgods
SpiritualVisionary
Registered: 03/13/03
Posts: 444
Loc: In a daze . . .
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: Callampin]
    #2132000 - 11/24/03 10:44 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

I know you can't find those images here:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_images.shtml
:which tells me its a big hoax.


(edit) lol. I just noticed the link to the erowid page. sorry about the post lol. That is pretty neat though. Perhaps some day there will be a supershroom where u eat one wet gram and its like eating 30 or 40.


--------------------
Holler!


Edited by fleshofgods (11/24/03 10:47 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAnnoA
Experimenter
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/18/99
Posts: 24,121
Loc: my room
Last seen: 2 months, 12 days
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: fleshofgods]
    #2132006 - 11/24/03 10:46 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Hmmm...why exactly would this tell us that this is a hoax?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefleshofgods
SpiritualVisionary
Registered: 03/13/03
Posts: 444
Loc: In a daze . . .
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: Anno]
    #2132015 - 11/24/03 10:51 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Sorry about the previous post. I went to the site and even looked through every picture and saved them and looked at the font styles used and went on an assumption. It's just strange is all. I guess if we can clone humans then we can have red spores on a psilocybe. I can only hope to make mycology a hobby that allows me to gene splice. What do you make of it all Anno?

Oh and one other thing, grammar really bugs me. Is it Genesis or Genus?


--------------------
Holler!


Edited by fleshofgods (11/24/03 10:59 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefleshofgods
SpiritualVisionary
Registered: 03/13/03
Posts: 444
Loc: In a daze . . .
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: fleshofgods]
    #2132045 - 11/24/03 11:03 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Once again a dumb question from Mr. fleshofgods. Sorry about all the posts. I just found out what genesis stands for:

Quote:

Medical dictionaries define genesis as: 'the coming into being of anything; the
process of originating' (Dorland 1994)




Still looking to hear Anno's standpoint. Also, there has to be someone else who has heard of this besides erowid.


--------------------
Holler!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAnnoA
Experimenter
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/18/99
Posts: 24,121
Loc: my room
Last seen: 2 months, 12 days
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: fleshofgods]
    #2132065 - 11/24/03 11:10 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Frankly, I have no idea how to judge this article. I will ask Workman.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineWorkmanV
Psilocybe Microscopist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,492
Loc: Washington, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: Anno]
    #2132138 - 11/24/03 11:56 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

This new strain is likely just a genetic defect that inhibits one of the pigments that colors the spores. I have seen similar effects in some of my biological test subjects. A species of box crab that is mostly grey/brown with dabbling of purple and orange. Occasional specimens will lack the grey/brown and orange coloration resulting in a striking bright purple crab. Specimens that lack the grey/brown and purple are completly white.

I would guess that normal spore coloration is from multiple pigments and that the one(s) responsible for the blackish color is missing. This leaves the brownish red coloration exposed. It looks like a simple point mutation interfering with pigment expression. Since we know the parentage, this would not make it a new species nor would it move a species to a new genera. It is simplistic to say that Psilocybe classification is based soley on spore coloration. There are a few Psilocybes that have merely brown spores and are still consider members of that genus. Psilocybe crobula has cigar brown spores and there is at least another one that escapes me at the moment.

Personally, while I think it is interesting, I don't think it merits the effort to get an "official" species or varietal name. Since it is a lab created strain and doesn't exist in nature the best course of action would be to patent the strain and get it banked at a culture bank.


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleangryshroom
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,262
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: Workman]
    #2132173 - 11/24/03 12:15 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Very well put Workman.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemycofile
Pooh-Bah
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: angryshroom]
    #2155799 - 12/03/03 05:35 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

well put indeed workman.
Quote:

Since we know the parentage, this would not make it a new species nor would it move a species to a new genera.



And also since we know that Fanaticus' lab suffered other mutations, it might even be likely to suspect that this was caused by the same mutagen as the "albinos"; uv light.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineschorts
a lot more and alittle less.

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 54
Loc: (roughly) portland, OR
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: mycofile]
    #2156074 - 12/03/03 06:56 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

well, PF was very thurough about what he was doing with those mutagens... and although he wasent neccissarily "expecting" those results, he did know, conclusively, wich strains were exposed to these conditions.

I doubt that this is a fraud, as yachaj is a well respected member of alt.drugs.mushrooms, although he is (last i checked) a registered member of the shroomery, with his own login.. also, his real name IS NOT yachaj... although I cant remember if its paye or not.

also, tot top it all off, motaman is a moderator in the news forum... so he CAN be trusted! check his ratings, they are valid.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 2,678
Loc: Alba
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: Workman]
    #2157107 - 12/04/03 01:26 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

not to be picky or anything, but the sporeprint on the right looks BLACK, compared to the supposedly red one. I suppose if someone was to put a large Panaeolus print next to a small cubensis print, then piss about with it in Photoshop, such an effect _might_ occur... also, why does the paper the prints are on _seem_ to be red white and blue mottled, the paper on the right _seeming_ to my eyes to be more blue, and darker overall?
something's not right here, even if it's only a bad camera.....


--------------------
---------------------------------------------------
hmmm........


Edited by Champion des Champignons (12/04/03 01:30 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemycofile
Pooh-Bah
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #2158290 - 12/04/03 03:49 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Well, regardless of anybody's reputation or intentions I think workman is dead on. We know it's a strain of Psilocybe cubensis that was isolated/mutated from the fanaticus strain, right? Then there is no real drama here. Just a curious strain.

However YachaJ does have a reputation of idolizing PF, which may be exactly what he's doing here. Making a bit more out of a curiosity than it truly merits. No offense intended to either yacha or pf with that comment.

And if this is the case, no need to forge photos just to hype a new cube strain. Hyping yield or fruit size would be much more of a payoff than hyping spore color. The photos looked legitimate to me.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineangryjslice
now with 20%more anger
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 916
Last seen: 8 months, 14 days
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: mycofile]
    #2158415 - 12/04/03 04:26 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

is it just me or do the gills on the 'red spore' look very different. As for naming, i am not aware that having a different strain merits a legal naming of the mushroom. if it is put on the market, it will most certainly retain whatever name it starts with. take most of the strains like pink buffalo and such. they dont seem to have a problem retaining there names.

is there any info or other pictures of this strain? growing conditions, size, etc?

anyone have any other info on the "saved genotypes"? its always good to see new variation come to the community.

~JSlice~


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleZen Peddler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: angryjslice]
    #2160674 - 12/05/03 08:19 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

The original post here is laughable.
And it demonstrates a profound ignorance of the basics of speciation and mycobiology.
No species in the real term is a stable entity - each type is really just a jumble of genetic pheno-type expressions suited to different environments - this is an adaptive strategy. SOme are more dominant than others as they are the most reliable expression for the normal environmental parameters that the mushroom experiences.
Some of these phenotypes serve no real purpose and are simply just strange - There is a plant a friend was telling me about that - when grown in certain pH soils, has yellow leaves.
Just because a mushroom strain throws off a weird-arse pheno-type expression and has red spores instead of purple-brown doesnt change its delineation in any way - its still the same mushroom, just a different variant of the same. And ofcourse, these expressions arent stable, they are variable and depend on all sorts of factors.
For speciation to occur, it would require a distinct variable in the environment to appear and force two distinct phenotype expressions to these two variable to become more and more common and entrenhced, eventually breaking the camels back and delineating. These phenotype differences would be significant enough to warrant reliance on them - red spores is not reliable or beneficial in anyway.
And finally, agrocybes are delineated by most mycologists on a stronger basis than spore colour alone - to consider this obvious psilocybe an agrocybe because of an unstable genetic trait probably more a result of genetic degradetion through a very selective line of cultivation is just plain ridiculous...


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Genesis of the PF Redspore Psilocybe [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2160849 - 12/05/03 10:59 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Just as in reptile breeding. You have Hypomelanistic and Hypermelanistic. Which means lack of or excess of pigment. With reptiles you would have to breed back the offspring back to the parents, then those offspring will then show the interesting traits of its grandparents. I dont know if its the same with mushrooms though.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: Brown Rice Flour, Portable Greenhouse, Vermiculite, pH Test Strips

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* PF Redspore / Argentina (growlog & pics) *updated*
( 1 2 all )
addictant 3,520 20 12/26/07 05:40 PM
by Funkatron9000
* pf redspore- problems from mutation? themycologist 642 5 02/21/08 01:12 PM
by HeadFood
* The genesis of Penis Envy, detailed historical info wanted!
( 1 2 all )
elpenisgigantico 3,113 33 12/03/08 04:52 PM
by elpenisgigantico
* pinset of redspore (pics) FATTYS Harvest update *10*29**
( 1 2 all )
sporeho 2,680 34 10/23/09 03:47 PM
by faceyneck
* Rye vs PF?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
BMArts 5,615 94 05/09/06 01:10 PM
by Holydiver
* First grow (mazatapec on PF cakes)- grow logs and pics *UPDATE 11-3-06* MightyCelt 11,257 14 05/21/13 05:57 AM
by diorio36
* First Grow - PF Srain via PFtek/Casing (updated Sept 18) Pinning
( 1 2 all )
irockdayellup 2,015 34 09/18/08 05:50 PM
by irockdayellup
* PF Redspore on Coir BlimeyGrimey 537 5 11/16/08 01:05 AM
by BlimeyGrimey

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Magash, Shroomism, george castanza, Prisoner#1, RogerRabbit, Citric, total, FooMan, 13shrooms, stonesun, EvilMushroom666, cronicr, PussyFart
3,359 topic views. 21 members, 88 guests and 28 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Edabea
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.08 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 14 queries.