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OfflineJohnM
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WBS flour
    #21299408 - 02/19/15 02:43 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I was wondering about substituting brf for wbsf in my next grow....while ive read through the posts and found an answer suitable ....i failed to see an answer to one question a fellow shroomerite posted that i have as well.....before grinding the wbs into flour should it be boiled out and rinsed first or ground into flour straight out of the bag? And then rinsed and sterilized? Thanks .... Shroom

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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: WBS flour [Re: JohnM]
    #21299420 - 02/19/15 02:46 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: WBS flour [Re: JohnM]
    #21299423 - 02/19/15 02:48 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I can't imagine using a coffee grinder on wet wild bird seed.

Your question is worded weirdly, as well. You're substituting wild bird seed 'flour' for brown rice flour? At any rate, make it fluffy! Many people pack their first few PFTek style jars too tight and they end up stalling.



Hope that helps a little.
Someone smarter will be by soon...

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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: WBS flour [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21299432 - 02/19/15 02:49 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Don't make it wet,

Just grind it up and use it like it was BRF flour, same measurements and everything.


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Re: WBS flour [Re: taGyo]
    #21299533 - 02/19/15 03:12 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Grind when dry, otherwise you have a messy goop to work with

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OfflineJohnM
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
    #21299793 - 02/19/15 04:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

And as a follow up....where can i get some verm? Ive looked at the local walmqrt and home depot lowes all to no avail....ordered some from one of the vendors here and never recieved it....

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Re: WBS flour [Re: JohnM]
    #21299939 - 02/19/15 04:45 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

it is used as insulation as well(verm) so check building supply stores


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Re: WBS flour *DELETED* [Re: cronicr]
    #21319297 - 02/23/15 06:46 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Helnak

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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
    #21319308 - 02/23/15 06:50 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I'm wondering if verm is even necessary for grain cakes.

Anyone know about this? Picking verm out is a pain in the ass.

Would be nicer and easier to harvest with just grain and ...that's it. Just grain and fruits and mycelium.

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Re: WBS flour [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21319353 - 02/23/15 07:01 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Verm is a far better water reservoir than most grains. If you bottom water grain only substrates you can see better yields but verm is easy, cheap, and also provides trace minerals. I buy coarse verm at the hydro shop for dirt cheap then if I need fine I just give it a few buzzes in the coffee grinder. 120 liter bag o verm FTW :thumbup:

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OfflineRideAllBears
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21319466 - 02/23/15 07:34 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

My better cakes were with WBS, so you're good. Like someone said, just grind it up dry, even with sunflower seeds.


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Re: WBS flour [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21319529 - 02/23/15 07:48 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I'm the same way.


Thanks for the info, though. :thumbup:

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Offliner00tuuu123
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Re: WBS flour [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21319632 - 02/23/15 08:10 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SoupSandwich said:
I can't imagine using a coffee grinder on wet wild bird seed.

Your question is worded weirdly, as well. You're substituting wild bird seed 'flour' for brown rice flour? At any rate, make it fluffy! Many people pack their first few PFTek style jars too tight and they end up stalling.



Hope that helps a little.
Someone smarter will be by soon...


You dont want it wet just dry wbs in a blender after all it is still grain flour at that point. You could probably make bread with it.


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Re: WBS flour [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #21320107 - 02/23/15 09:43 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Also, is rolling in verm better with straight grain cakes?

I understand that vermiculite holds water better and should probably be mixed with grain as a substrate, but will having a light coating on the outside of the cake help with pinning or anything? Thanks. I just hate picking and scrapping verm embedded in the soft, spongy base of the mushrooms.  Kind of a pain, you know?

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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: WBS flour [Re: SoupSandwich]
    #21320121 - 02/23/15 09:46 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

no one fruits straight grains as cakes :shrug:

some puts a casing layer on top of a container of grain and water them regularly.

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Re: WBS flour *DELETED* [Re: spacechildo]
    #21321052 - 02/24/15 03:11 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
    #21321538 - 02/24/15 07:52 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

no one does that. grains dont hold moisture well at all
and you dont use dry verm in grains you use a filter in the lid like polyfill, sfd's etc..

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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: WBS flour [Re: spacechildo]
    #21322319 - 02/24/15 11:31 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Helnak that was the worst information I've ever seen.

You're not even PCing for the right amount of time, :facepalm:


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Offlinetripdawg420
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Re: WBS flour [Re: taGyo]
    #21322336 - 02/24/15 11:36 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

if i was going to use any thing but brf for cakes i would use rye flour ive seen wbs cakes and they just dont yeild right


--------------------
HUSTLER
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epic GT mono tub
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wbs tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11525679
coir tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11917410
results :thumbup:

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Re: WBS flour *DELETED* [Re: taGyo]
    #21326619 - 02/25/15 06:15 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Helnak

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
    #21326719 - 02/25/15 07:02 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Its a poor explanation of a poor process. Dry verm layers are used for cakes only. Whole grains should be PC'd for 90 min and hour may work but 90 is better, and if I boiled WBS I would get a lot of exploded grains mixed with underhydrated ones.

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InvisibleHelnak
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Re: WBS flour *DELETED* [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21326845 - 02/25/15 08:05 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
    #21326871 - 02/25/15 08:15 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Easier for bacteria to spread, cause clumping making shaking hard and reducing the effectiveness of your sterilization cycle. Whole grains need to be ground into flour before use in a cake and should be PC'd for 90 min due to the endospores that are likely to be present. BRF does not have a high endospore count so 60 min pc is acceptable for cakes made with brf.

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OfflineHeisenburg
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
    #21327304 - 02/25/15 10:21 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

It was BAD info because...
1. You NEVER wanna boil WBS for 10 minutes, if you do, you will end up with an unusable WBS brick.
2. You should PC for at least 90 minutes. always.

EDIT: added 'at least' to #2 :smile:


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Edited by Heisenburg (02/25/15 10:55 AM)

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Invisiblewowimflabbergasted
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Heisenburg]
    #21327312 - 02/25/15 10:23 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

At LEAST 90 minutes. Don't you PC for some unreal amount of time Pasty?


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OfflineChk
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Re: WBS flour [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #21327355 - 02/25/15 10:34 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Here i stopped pc'ing 90 minutes,  uses 120 to 150, and it cut down my contam rate (i probably got not that great wbs)

also it gives a larger window before anything bad recover


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Offlinetripdawg420
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Chk]
    #21327438 - 02/25/15 10:49 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

i pc grain jars and bags 120 mins


--------------------
HUSTLER
How U Survive This Life Everyday Resourcefully
epic GT mono tub
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17277772

wbs tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11525679
coir tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11917410
results :thumbup:

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Re: WBS flour *DELETED* [Re: tripdawg420]
    #21327552 - 02/25/15 11:17 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

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OfflineHeisenburg
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
    #21327604 - 02/25/15 11:29 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

tripdawg420 didn't say 'unusable brick', I did.
And YES it does. A lot of seeds burst and after PCing you may have a brick in your jar. A hard one. And even if it's not a brick (miracle), you will still have a real shitty jar of burst WBS.
Frank Horrigan warns against it.
Roger Rabbit warns against it.

" and if you soak the grains after boiling then the endospores have time to become live cultures susceptible to the heat of a PC."

WHY ON EARTH would you soak AFTER bringing to a boil??? The reason you bring it to a boil is just to get it hot enough to steam all the excess moisture away from the surface of grains.
Endospores become live cultures? idk what you are talking about there.

Please read some more on here and research mycology a bit more. Not trying to be a dick but it sounds like some more informative reading could benefit you.


--------------------

Edited by Heisenburg (02/25/15 11:40 AM)

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
    #21327727 - 02/25/15 12:12 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Helnak said:
Boiling does not yield an "unusable brick," and if you soak the grains after boiling then the endospores have time to become live cultures susceptible to the heat of a PC.  I have run a PC for less than an hour and still not had contaminations.




The whole notion that you can sterilize cereal grains in under an hour is poor advice. Even if ground to flour first its a risky practice. You can do it all you want at home but to advocate it on the boards is frowned upon and for good reason.  Do a few hundred runs like that and tell me then.

Anyway this talk of burst grains etc is off topic.  OP is asking about cakes not grains. Cakes by definition use flour and verm or similar water reservoir. Pulling a colonized brick of grain out of a half pint is not a cake. Its a brick of colonized grain. If you roll it and fruit it its then cased grain. Not a cake. Also doing that would almost certainly yield shit results.  So lets stop talking about it.

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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21327936 - 02/25/15 12:57 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Helnak,

You are wrong. A TC is telling you.
Be humble and bow your head.

For these purposes, you should not boil anything. Grind them whiel they're dry. Even if I was prepping WBS for use in a grain jar, your information is incorrect.

We've all been flamed for misinformation.

Don't take it personally, we're just trying to limit the bullshit.


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Offlineboodog420
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21327950 - 02/25/15 01:00 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I just got a pc and tried wbs for first jars . Soaked 12 hrs then simmered for about 45 min. Didn't realize till after my pc run but almost all the grains burst. Most of them are colonizing great so far (been 10 days) but I did use lc from spores. As long as I don't get contams will they be alright ??

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Re: WBS flour [Re: boodog420]
    #21327963 - 02/25/15 01:01 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Follow this:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080/fpart/all/vc/1

I wouldn't use those. When they're burst they're exposed to everything. LC from spores is 50% (Probably higher) chance of failure because you have no idea if the syringe was clean.


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Re: WBS flour [Re: taGyo]
    #21328011 - 02/25/15 01:10 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Well already colonizing now and over 50% already . And my lc's proven  clean. But there tampanesis that I plan on leaving for a few months to get stones if that matters

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Re: WBS flour [Re: boodog420]
    #21328032 - 02/25/15 01:13 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)


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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: WBS flour [Re: boodog420]
    #21328036 - 02/25/15 01:13 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Then you're good as long as it doesn't contam,

:yesnod:


--------------------
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TNF Q&A :rockon:
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Dominus fortunae meae sum

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Re: WBS flour [Re: boodog420]
    #21328047 - 02/25/15 01:15 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Not a good pic but they're prob more like 75%. Amazing how fast they grow with lc

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Re: WBS flour [Re: boodog420]
    #21328071 - 02/25/15 01:18 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Cool thanks  I'm made another batch since those , watched those a lot closer on the simmer and they came out way better.

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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: WBS flour [Re: boodog420]
    #21328077 - 02/25/15 01:18 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

:hippie:


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TNF Q&A :rockon:
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