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JohnM
mycostudent


Registered: 03/05/14
Posts: 80
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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WBS flour
#21299408 - 02/19/15 02:43 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was wondering about substituting brf for wbsf in my next grow....while ive read through the posts and found an answer suitable ....i failed to see an answer to one question a fellow shroomerite posted that i have as well.....before grinding the wbs into flour should it be boiled out and rinsed first or ground into flour straight out of the bag? And then rinsed and sterilized? Thanks .... Shroom
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
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Re: WBS flour [Re: JohnM]
#21299420 - 02/19/15 02:46 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
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SoupSandwich




Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 4,440
Loc: Lost
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Re: WBS flour [Re: JohnM]
#21299423 - 02/19/15 02:48 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I can't imagine using a coffee grinder on wet wild bird seed.
Your question is worded weirdly, as well. You're substituting wild bird seed 'flour' for brown rice flour? At any rate, make it fluffy! Many people pack their first few PFTek style jars too tight and they end up stalling.
Hope that helps a little. Someone smarter will be by soon...
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taGyo
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Registered: 10/16/14
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Don't make it wet,
Just grind it up and use it like it was BRF flour, same measurements and everything.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
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Helnak
Student

Registered: 06/29/14
Posts: 256
Loc:
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Re: WBS flour [Re: taGyo]
#21299533 - 02/19/15 03:12 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Grind when dry, otherwise you have a messy goop to work with
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JohnM
mycostudent


Registered: 03/05/14
Posts: 80
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
#21299793 - 02/19/15 04:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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And as a follow up....where can i get some verm? Ive looked at the local walmqrt and home depot lowes all to no avail....ordered some from one of the vendors here and never recieved it....
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,905
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: WBS flour [Re: JohnM]
#21299939 - 02/19/15 04:45 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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it is used as insulation as well(verm) so check building supply stores
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Helnak
Student

Registered: 06/29/14
Posts: 256
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Re: WBS flour *DELETED* [Re: cronicr]
#21319297 - 02/23/15 06:46 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by HelnakReason for deletion: G
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SoupSandwich




Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 4,440
Loc: Lost
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
#21319308 - 02/23/15 06:50 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm wondering if verm is even necessary for grain cakes.
Anyone know about this? Picking verm out is a pain in the ass.
Would be nicer and easier to harvest with just grain and ...that's it. Just grain and fruits and mycelium.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Verm is a far better water reservoir than most grains. If you bottom water grain only substrates you can see better yields but verm is easy, cheap, and also provides trace minerals. I buy coarse verm at the hydro shop for dirt cheap then if I need fine I just give it a few buzzes in the coffee grinder. 120 liter bag o verm FTW
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RideAllBears
rawr


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 166
Last seen: 9 years, 2 days
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My better cakes were with WBS, so you're good. Like someone said, just grind it up dry, even with sunflower seeds.
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SoupSandwich




Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 4,440
Loc: Lost
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I'm the same way.

Thanks for the info, though.
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r00tuuu123
Now I'm just really piseed



Registered: 04/20/12
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Quote:
SoupSandwich said: I can't imagine using a coffee grinder on wet wild bird seed.
Your question is worded weirdly, as well. You're substituting wild bird seed 'flour' for brown rice flour? At any rate, make it fluffy! Many people pack their first few PFTek style jars too tight and they end up stalling.
Hope that helps a little. Someone smarter will be by soon...
You dont want it wet just dry wbs in a blender after all it is still grain flour at that point. You could probably make bread with it.
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SoupSandwich




Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 4,440
Loc: Lost
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Also, is rolling in verm better with straight grain cakes?
I understand that vermiculite holds water better and should probably be mixed with grain as a substrate, but will having a light coating on the outside of the cake help with pinning or anything? Thanks. I just hate picking and scrapping verm embedded in the soft, spongy base of the mushrooms. Kind of a pain, you know?
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
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no one fruits straight grains as cakes 
some puts a casing layer on top of a container of grain and water them regularly.
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Helnak
Student

Registered: 06/29/14
Posts: 256
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Post deleted by HelnakReason for deletion: H
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
#21321538 - 02/24/15 07:52 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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no one does that. grains dont hold moisture well at all and you dont use dry verm in grains you use a filter in the lid like polyfill, sfd's etc..
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Helnak that was the worst information I've ever seen.
You're not even PCing for the right amount of time,
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,653
Loc: illinois
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Re: WBS flour [Re: taGyo]
#21322336 - 02/24/15 11:36 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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if i was going to use any thing but brf for cakes i would use rye flour ive seen wbs cakes and they just dont yeild right
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Helnak
Student

Registered: 06/29/14
Posts: 256
Loc:
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Re: WBS flour *DELETED* [Re: taGyo]
#21326619 - 02/25/15 06:15 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by HelnakReason for deletion: H
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
#21326719 - 02/25/15 07:02 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Its a poor explanation of a poor process. Dry verm layers are used for cakes only. Whole grains should be PC'd for 90 min and hour may work but 90 is better, and if I boiled WBS I would get a lot of exploded grains mixed with underhydrated ones.
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Helnak
Student

Registered: 06/29/14
Posts: 256
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Re: WBS flour *DELETED* [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21326845 - 02/25/15 08:05 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by HelnakReason for deletion: Blah
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
#21326871 - 02/25/15 08:15 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Easier for bacteria to spread, cause clumping making shaking hard and reducing the effectiveness of your sterilization cycle. Whole grains need to be ground into flour before use in a cake and should be PC'd for 90 min due to the endospores that are likely to be present. BRF does not have a high endospore count so 60 min pc is acceptable for cakes made with brf.
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Heisenburg
HOPE U LIKE WHAT U SEE!!!!



Registered: 02/24/15
Posts: 113
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
#21327304 - 02/25/15 10:21 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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It was BAD info because... 1. You NEVER wanna boil WBS for 10 minutes, if you do, you will end up with an unusable WBS brick. 2. You should PC for at least 90 minutes. always.
EDIT: added 'at least' to #2
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Edited by Heisenburg (02/25/15 10:55 AM)
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
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At LEAST 90 minutes. Don't you PC for some unreal amount of time Pasty?
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Chk
Reverser


Registered: 09/06/13
Posts: 405
Loc: France
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Here i stopped pc'ing 90 minutes, uses 120 to 150, and it cut down my contam rate (i probably got not that great wbs)
also it gives a larger window before anything bad recover
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,653
Loc: illinois
Last seen: 1 hour, 28 minutes
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Chk]
#21327438 - 02/25/15 10:49 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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i pc grain jars and bags 120 mins
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Helnak
Student

Registered: 06/29/14
Posts: 256
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Post deleted by HelnakReason for deletion: H
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Heisenburg
HOPE U LIKE WHAT U SEE!!!!



Registered: 02/24/15
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
#21327604 - 02/25/15 11:29 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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tripdawg420 didn't say 'unusable brick', I did. And YES it does. A lot of seeds burst and after PCing you may have a brick in your jar. A hard one. And even if it's not a brick (miracle), you will still have a real shitty jar of burst WBS. Frank Horrigan warns against it. Roger Rabbit warns against it.
" and if you soak the grains after boiling then the endospores have time to become live cultures susceptible to the heat of a PC."
WHY ON EARTH would you soak AFTER bringing to a boil??? The reason you bring it to a boil is just to get it hot enough to steam all the excess moisture away from the surface of grains. Endospores become live cultures? idk what you are talking about there.
Please read some more on here and research mycology a bit more. Not trying to be a dick but it sounds like some more informative reading could benefit you.
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Edited by Heisenburg (02/25/15 11:40 AM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: WBS flour [Re: Helnak]
#21327727 - 02/25/15 12:12 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Helnak said: Boiling does not yield an "unusable brick," and if you soak the grains after boiling then the endospores have time to become live cultures susceptible to the heat of a PC. I have run a PC for less than an hour and still not had contaminations.
The whole notion that you can sterilize cereal grains in under an hour is poor advice. Even if ground to flour first its a risky practice. You can do it all you want at home but to advocate it on the boards is frowned upon and for good reason. Do a few hundred runs like that and tell me then.
Anyway this talk of burst grains etc is off topic. OP is asking about cakes not grains. Cakes by definition use flour and verm or similar water reservoir. Pulling a colonized brick of grain out of a half pint is not a cake. Its a brick of colonized grain. If you roll it and fruit it its then cased grain. Not a cake. Also doing that would almost certainly yield shit results. So lets stop talking about it.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Helnak,
You are wrong. A TC is telling you. Be humble and bow your head.
For these purposes, you should not boil anything. Grind them whiel they're dry. Even if I was prepping WBS for use in a grain jar, your information is incorrect.
We've all been flamed for misinformation.
Don't take it personally, we're just trying to limit the bullshit.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
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boodog420
daytripper



Registered: 11/14/14
Posts: 332
Loc: Ohigho
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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I just got a pc and tried wbs for first jars . Soaked 12 hrs then simmered for about 45 min. Didn't realize till after my pc run but almost all the grains burst. Most of them are colonizing great so far (been 10 days) but I did use lc from spores. As long as I don't get contams will they be alright ??
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
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Follow this: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080/fpart/all/vc/1
I wouldn't use those. When they're burst they're exposed to everything. LC from spores is 50% (Probably higher) chance of failure because you have no idea if the syringe was clean.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
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boodog420
daytripper



Registered: 11/14/14
Posts: 332
Loc: Ohigho
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: WBS flour [Re: taGyo]
#21328011 - 02/25/15 01:10 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well already colonizing now and over 50% already . And my lc's proven clean. But there tampanesis that I plan on leaving for a few months to get stones if that matters
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boodog420
daytripper



Registered: 11/14/14
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
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Then you're good as long as it doesn't contam,
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
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Dominus fortunae meae sum
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boodog420
daytripper



Registered: 11/14/14
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Not a good pic but they're prob more like 75%. Amazing how fast they grow with lc
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boodog420
daytripper



Registered: 11/14/14
Posts: 332
Loc: Ohigho
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Cool thanks I'm made another batch since those , watched those a lot closer on the simmer and they came out way better.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A
AMU Q&A
Dominus fortunae meae sum
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