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dustinthewind13
Fool
Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: SeaShrooms]
#21304933 - 02/20/15 04:26 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SeaShrooms said: homicide, rape, and misogyny for thousands of years.
That hurts. And I wouldn't say words are the cause either. It's stupidity. The words have as much power as people give. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Tropism
ChasingTail
Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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The words have as much power as people give.
and people do.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: Tropism]
#21304996 - 02/20/15 04:46 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tropism said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Was it in another thread? If so link me cause you know I got some words that are going to shrivel your nuts.
Proving my point in the process.
It is literally the previous page of this thread I don't need to go finding it for you. At least back up your point then, how in the hell are actions the only thing that hurts?
You don't have a valid point imo. I was being sarcastic.
Easy to explain by example. Two people get told to fuck off. For one it's a ruined day. The other guy didn't notice.
Example 2 - Two people get shot in the stomach buy some guy. For both the day is ruined.
See the difference?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (02/20/15 04:48 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: xFrockx]
#21305336 - 02/20/15 06:25 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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A Cynic Will Not: 1. Entertain your ideas or try to understand your perspective
That's not cynicism. It's closed-mindedness.
2. Be concerned about how you feel about them, positive or negative
That's not cynicism. It's indifference.
3. Be convinced or persuaded
See #1.
4. Give a flying fuck about why you are so excited about your idea
See #2.
5. Show concern for your feelings when they explain how you are wrong
See #2 again.
Besides, why would anyone have bad feelings about having a misconception corrected with accurate data? Getting upset over being corrected is a problem in the correctee, not the corrector.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,299
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: Icelander]
#21306135 - 02/20/15 09:21 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Two people get told to fuck off. For one it's a ruined day. The other guy didn't notice.
True, but that is the potential that is there. Words can act as a kind of catalyst, setting some people off according to their potential. One guy doesn't give a fuck. The other guy can't help but give a fuck.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,299
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: SeaShrooms]
#21306147 - 02/20/15 09:24 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SeaShrooms said: But the machetes and bullets are an extension of those hurtful genocidal words.
I disagree, but we'd be sidetracking the thread to continue arguing it. Anyway, my original reply to you was cynical so thanks for clarifying.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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Tropism
ChasingTail
Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: Icelander]
#21306583 - 02/21/15 12:11 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Tropism said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Was it in another thread? If so link me cause you know I got some words that are going to shrivel your nuts.
Proving my point in the process.
It is literally the previous page of this thread I don't need to go finding it for you. At least back up your point then, how in the hell are actions the only thing that hurts?
You don't have a valid point imo. I was being sarcastic.
Easy to explain by example. Two people get told to fuck off. For one it's a ruined day. The other guy didn't notice.
Example 2 - Two people get shot in the stomach buy some guy. For both the day is ruined.
See the difference?
Even if it is invalid, why it is invalid is all I've been trying to get out of you. Still though, recognizing the difference there doesn't provide some kind of answer. One kind of damage doesn't rule out another.
In your scenario, one guy has effective defenses, one doesn't. I have already broached this possibility in both posts. The amount of damage and pain inflicted depends on the words, intent, and defenses of the recipient. It's a wide spread based on conditioning and experience, not everyone has solid defenses. Beyond any pointing of the finger on where the onus lies, of who is responsible for emotional stablitiy and how much words shouldn't hurt, how is it deniable that there is emotional pain being experienced from malicious words?
I'm honestly curious, if I am so incorrect.
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,457
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 22 hours
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: Tropism]
#21306946 - 02/21/15 06:08 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me"
Fucking kindergarten people!
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,457
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 22 hours
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: Diploid]
#21306949 - 02/21/15 06:11 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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A cynic is more than someone who disagrees with something, it is a person who chronically does not. Close mindedness might not be an essential part of that, but it is not exactly foreign to it either, same with indifference. Diogenes wasn't exactly openminded and interested, from what we hear of him.
A cynic might feign openmindedness for the sake of argument, but is always ready to formulate a reply that obliterates the idea brought forward. To do otherwise would not be cynical.
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Tropism
ChasingTail
Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: xFrockx]
#21307151 - 02/21/15 08:11 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: "Sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me"
Fucking kindergarten people!
Yeah it was false then and it's false now. I hurt all kinds of kids feelings with my words.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: Rahz]
#21307217 - 02/21/15 08:41 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
Two people get told to fuck off. For one it's a ruined day. The other guy didn't notice.
True, but that is the potential that is there. Words can act as a kind of catalyst, setting some people off according to their potential. One guy doesn't give a fuck. The other guy can't help but give a fuck.
A catalyst for action is not an action. If that was so then every word would have the same effect. If you told someone to drop dead they fucking would. But you get the choice or something chooses to feel this or that about a word. The word itself has no power. YOU provide the power or not.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,457
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 22 hours
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: Tropism]
#21307275 - 02/21/15 08:55 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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The truth or falsity of that statement is determined by the mind of the person considering it.
How much we are hurt by words is up to us.
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Tropism
ChasingTail
Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: xFrockx]
#21307320 - 02/21/15 09:08 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Indeed. I haven't at any point denied this premise. My point still being, those words still hurt people. Not everyone has as immaculate defenses as those around here.
I have tried to make it clear I'm acknowledging that rationalization, that the onus of emotional responsibility as a result of those words is on the recipient, yet still how can it be denied that words hurt those with poor defenses? Hell, if words didn't hurt people then you wouldn't need that children's limerick.
If the idea is that YOU provide the power or not, then to that I say yes, of course, and people do give them power and people do get hurt. That's the point I'm getting at.
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,457
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 22 hours
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: Tropism]
#21307403 - 02/21/15 09:30 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do you want the situation to be better or not?
When harm from words is as simple as believing them powerless, why even suggest that the notion words can hurt has any credibility?
You argument is part of the problem, not the solution.
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,299
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: Icelander]
#21307453 - 02/21/15 09:43 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
Two people get told to fuck off. For one it's a ruined day. The other guy didn't notice.
True, but that is the potential that is there. Words can act as a kind of catalyst, setting some people off according to their potential. One guy doesn't give a fuck. The other guy can't help but give a fuck.
A catalyst for action is not an action. If that was so then every word would have the same effect. If you told someone to drop dead they fucking would. But you get the choice or something chooses to feel this or that about a word. The word itself has no power. YOU provide the power or not.
So you believe in free will or not?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: Tropism]
#21307475 - 02/21/15 09:52 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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That childrens limerick is to remind you that you give all the power to words and not the other way around.
My point still being, those words still hurt people.
Still wrong imo. Doesn't matter what their defenses are. We are responsible it seems even if we did not create the situation. (life)
In the wild, in a healthy ecosystem, the weak are food for the strong. This is the healthiest way things work unfortunately. To compel the strong to silence to protect the weak is a fools game.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,299
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: xFrockx]
#21307483 - 02/21/15 09:55 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: A cynic is more than someone who disagrees with something, it is a person who chronically does not. Close mindedness might not be an essential part of that, but it is not exactly foreign to it either, same with indifference. Diogenes wasn't exactly openminded and interested, from what we hear of him.
A cynic might feign openmindedness for the sake of argument, but is always ready to formulate a reply that obliterates the idea brought forward. To do otherwise would not be cynical.
Diogenes was a colorful figure, an advocate for simple living and the abolition of money, along with social class, national borders, etc. He would likely argue with anyone he saw as greedy and corrupted, but wouldn't simply disagree for the sake of it.
The modern definition of cynicism in a more formal sense is to question one's motives, but again if you believe someone is being truthful about their intent there would be no need for disagreement.
The less formal definition, to argue for the sake of argument, is also a valid definition but not exactly philosophical.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: Icelander]
#21307496 - 02/21/15 09:58 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Tropism said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Was it in another thread? If so link me cause you know I got some words that are going to shrivel your nuts.
Proving my point in the process.
It is literally the previous page of this thread I don't need to go finding it for you. At least back up your point then, how in the hell are actions the only thing that hurts?
You don't have a valid point imo. I was being sarcastic.
Easy to explain by example. Two people get told to fuck off. For one it's a ruined day. The other guy didn't notice.
Example 2 - Two people get shot in the stomach buy some guy. For both the day is ruined.
See the difference?
Example 3- two people get shot in the stomach. one guy is wearing a 5" thick steel suit. For one it's a ruined day. The other guy didn't notice.
Bullets don't hurt. It is people's responsibility to stop giving bullets power.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: White Beard]
#21307522 - 02/21/15 10:02 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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There is no end to what you can do to protect yourself if you have the brains to figure it out. You still lose big time in the end however but if you do things right you may not give a shit.
That for me would be the ultimate. God " you've been bad and didn't act like I commanded" Me "eat shit and die old man".
Smells like victory. Too bad it's a complete fantasy.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 31 minutes, 48 seconds
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Re: What to expect from a cynic [Re: White Beard]
#21307531 - 02/21/15 10:04 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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when someone stabs you it's not the knife that hurts - it's your body that hurts. therefore the responsibility is solely on the person stabbed due to it being their body that generates and experiences pain.
--------------------
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