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o8u
Taxa Collector


Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 4,148
Loc: United States
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: raceme]
#21265403 - 02/12/15 06:30 PM (9 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
raceme said: Agaricus trisporus?
So close...
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leschampignons
Biochemistry + Mycology



Registered: 08/30/13
Posts: 1,583
Loc: NY/NJ/ME
Last seen: 29 days, 2 hours
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
#21265728 - 02/12/15 07:19 PM (9 years, 12 days ago) |
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Agaricus bisporus. If it weren't for that hint I would've guesses A. campestris.
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: leschampignons]
#21265840 - 02/12/15 07:40 PM (9 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
leschampignons said: Agaricus bisporus.
Nicely done. Got one for the rest of us??
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leschampignons
Biochemistry + Mycology



Registered: 08/30/13
Posts: 1,583
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
#21266395 - 02/12/15 09:19 PM (9 years, 12 days ago) |
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Edit: Here's where it's from:

That's Aspergillus niger Sorry the image is so big.
Edited by leschampignons (02/12/15 09:49 PM)
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic



Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: leschampignons]
#21266468 - 02/12/15 09:35 PM (9 years, 12 days ago) |
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ou sont les champignions d'hier?
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RuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21266545 - 02/12/15 09:52 PM (9 years, 12 days ago) |
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i was waiting for more specific 'which fungus is it from?' kinda stuff, but apparently we get to nominate one. so, i'll go with Aspergillus niger, and citrate
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11791342
Abstract
Send to: Acta Microbiol Immunol Hung. 2001;48(3-4):429-40. The biochemistry of citric acid accumulation by Aspergillus niger. Karaffa L1, Sándor E, Fekete E, Szentirmai A. Author information Abstract
Fungi, in particular Aspergilli, are well known for their potential to overproduce a variety of organic acids. These microorganisms have an intrinsic ability to accumulate these substances and it is generally believed that this provides the fungi with an ecological advantage, since they grow rather well at pH 3 to 5, while some species even tolerate pH values as low as 1.5. Organic acid production can be stimulated and in a number of cases conditions have been found that result in almost quantitative conversion of carbon substrate into acid. This is exploited in large-scale production of a number of organic acids like citric-, gluconic- and itaconic acid. Both in production volume as well as in knowledge available, citrate is by far the major organic acid. Citric acid (2-hydroxy-propane-1,2,3-tricarboxylic acid) is a true bulk product with an estimated global production of over 900 thousand tons in the year 2000. Till the beginning of the 20th century, it was exclusively extracted from lemons. Since the global market was dominated by an Italian cartel, other means of production were sought. Chemical synthesis was possible, but not suitable due to expensive raw materials and a complicated process with low yield. The discovery of citrate accumulation by Aspergillus niger led to a rapid development of a fermentation process, which only a decade later accounted for a large part of the global production. The application of citric acid is based on three of its properties: (1) acidity and buffer capacity, (2) taste and flavour, and (3) chelation of metal ions. Because of its three acid groups with pKa values of 3.1, 4.7 and 6.4, citrate is able to produce a very low pH in solution, but is also useful as a buffer over a broad range of pH values (2 to 7). Citric acid has a pleasant acid taste which leaves little aftertaste. It sometimes enhances flavour, but is also able to mask sweetness, such as the aspartame taste in diet beverages. Chelation of metal ions is a very important property that has led to applications such as antioxidant and preservative. Moreover, it is a "natural" substance and fully biodegradable.
PMID: 11791342 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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leschampignons
Biochemistry + Mycology



Registered: 08/30/13
Posts: 1,583
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21266567 - 02/12/15 09:54 PM (9 years, 12 days ago) |
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Edit: what was your message in French supposed to mean?
Where are the mushrooms of yesterday?
Or assuming you were referring to my username:
Where was I yesterday?
Edited by leschampignons (02/12/15 09:57 PM)
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RuralAnomaly
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Registered: 10/05/13
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: leschampignons]
#21266707 - 02/12/15 10:22 PM (9 years, 12 days ago) |
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you translated fine!! i saw the post before the plates showed up. btw, you don't have to identify the fungus that produced the chemical in your posting of the new chemical, but a picture of it is nice and the 'other' part of the solution. or a description if a picture is just TOO obvious maybe use our imaginations to make it fun? if you have an idea try it.
i'll try to come up with something we haven't already seen in a few
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RuralAnomaly
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Registered: 10/05/13
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21266892 - 02/12/15 11:02 PM (9 years, 12 days ago) |
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from

(not my images... attributions upon solving )
Edited by RuralAnomaly (02/12/15 11:03 PM)
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21270008 - 02/13/15 05:55 PM (9 years, 11 days ago) |
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Ok. How 'bout a hint?
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RuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
#21270467 - 02/13/15 08:14 PM (9 years, 11 days ago) |
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if you can name the fungus, the chemical name is derived from it (or at least the common name is)
it is a soft rot fungus, and has a pretty extensive history of use by a variety of cultures. It appears to be widespread in the northern hemisphere at least (but perhaps not common.)
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21273990 - 02/14/15 04:57 PM (9 years, 11 days ago) |
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I'm still working on the chemical name. The fungus is Daldinia concentrica, right?
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RuralAnomaly
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Registered: 10/05/13
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
#21276002 - 02/15/15 07:11 AM (9 years, 10 days ago) |
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well done! (pun intended) photo of : King Alfreds Cakes (Daldinia concentrica) © Wikimedia Commons Walter Baxter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daldinia_concentrica
I've read conflicting information about whether the 'rings' represent seasons of growth, or whether its all formed at once as it grows in the asexual stage. If anyone can clear that up one way or another, that would be helpful.
i think there are two compounds named for this species actually.
another thing i found interesting is that eastern cultures actually consumed them powdered as medicine for cramps... and western cultures seemed to think that carrying them in their pockets would suffice to ward them off. Not sure what conclusions may be drawn from this, but its thought provoking...
-------------------- bite my basidiocarp
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21283684 - 02/16/15 04:00 PM (9 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
RuralAnomaly said:
So far, I've found twelve chemicals extracted from and named after Daldinia concentrica, and none of them match your chemical.
daldin A
daldin B
daldin c
daldinone A
daldinone B
daldiniapyrone (4-methoxy-5-carbomethoxy-6-pentyl-2H-pyran-2-one
daldinialanone (22R-hydroxylanosta-7,9(11),24-trien-3-one
concentricol
concentricol B
concentricol C
concentricol D
concentricolide
Edited by The Lightning (02/16/15 05:05 PM)
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic



Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
#21285918 - 02/16/15 11:05 PM (9 years, 8 days ago) |
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ok well, hell, i was way off with two- and just shows us how many freakin' unique metabolites fungi in general make that we know not much about.
i'm not sure why this one didn't turn up after that exhaustive effort... but i think you get a gimme on this one.
here's where i found the picture of (IUPAC) 2-(2,3-dimethoxy-5-methylbenzoyl)-4-hydroxy-6-methoxy-Benzaldehyde or daldinal A.
looks like a precursor or catabolic product of that daldinone A maybe?
anyway the picture is here : http://www.guidechem.com/dictionary/160889-21-4.html
go ahead with one if you have one. (edit) oh ya, the place where i saw it mentioned was here:
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/225352507_Macrocarpones_novel_metabolites_from_stromata_of_Hypoxylon_macrocarpum_and_new_evidence_on_the_chemotaxonomy_of_Hypoxylon_species
not sure how i wound up there, lol ... just looking for something to put up here
-------------------- bite my basidiocarp
Edited by RuralAnomaly (02/16/15 11:10 PM)
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21286297 - 02/17/15 01:56 AM (9 years, 8 days ago) |
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Must've been just out of reach

Hint: Japan. Flavour.
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RuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
#21296467 - 02/18/15 11:52 PM (9 years, 6 days ago) |
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Flavour eh. i'm having a tough time id-ing this mushroom - figured i'd start there for a change but its not werkin. or even close to ...
Is this compound suspected to be psychoactive? (or known to be)
-------------------- bite my basidiocarp
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21296615 - 02/19/15 12:48 AM (9 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
having a tough time id-ing this mushroom - figured i'd start there for a change but its not werkin. or even close to ...
The genus is known for gourmet/edible mushrooms. This particular species is known from Japan. There happens to be one collection from Japan in the University of Washington Herbarium, seen below.

Hint Two: Fly killer
There are no observations of this species on MushroomObserver.Org, and the name hasn't even been created there (yet).
Here's another shot of it:
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RuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
#21297711 - 02/19/15 09:15 AM (9 years, 6 days ago) |
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21298460 - 02/19/15 11:48 AM (9 years, 6 days ago) |
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I'll have to give this to you, but with an exception! The mushroom is indeed Tricholoma muscarium and the chemical is Ibotenic Acid.
However, Ibotenic Acid is not synonymous with Muscimol. It is synonymous with Pramuscimol.
Here's what Muscimol looks like:
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