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InvisibleTRS
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how do you dunk a casing?
    #2129821 - 11/23/03 01:39 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

are you supposed to take it out of the container its in or what?


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InvisibleChe_Night_Soil
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: TRS]
    #2129858 - 11/23/03 02:09 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Would misting be inadequate for your purposes?


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Che_Night_Soil]
    #2129917 - 11/23/03 03:00 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

fill the casing with water (flood it) and put it into a turkey bag. place in the fridge overnight. when you take it out, punch a hole in eack corner of the bottom to let it drain. thats what afoaf does.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: TRS]
    #2129941 - 11/23/03 03:12 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

There is no need to dunk a casing, that?s why you mist the casing layer with water.


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InvisibleTRS
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Anno]
    #2130002 - 11/23/03 04:22 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

i dont have anything to mist with and if i did i probably wouldnt do it anyway. why do you say there is no need to dunk a casing when alot of people here talk about doing it all the time?


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: TRS]
    #2130009 - 11/23/03 04:36 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I can only repeat myself: a casing is sprayed with water, not dunked.

That?s the standard procedure and much more convenient and easier than mess with dunking.

But, it CAN also be dunked, as everything can be done using different routes. It?s just not a common practice, since it?s less convenient and more work.


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InvisibleTRS
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Anno]
    #2130016 - 11/23/03 04:49 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

but doesnt spraying a casing cause overlay?


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: TRS]
    #2130028 - 11/23/03 05:11 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

No.


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InvisibleHanky
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Anno] * 1
    #2130071 - 11/23/03 06:04 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

i mist my casings heaps when i put them together,then once or twice during colonisation if they look a little dry on the surface,i dont mist at all during pinning and fruiting,after harvesting a flush i recase with a thin (less than a quater inch) layer,making sure it gets down the sides of the container where the casing has shrunk.
then mist the whole thing and wait for more shrooms.
one of the principles of a casing layer is to provide moisture,misting at the right times serves this purpose.

dunk cakes not casings.

PS coldshocking casings is a waste of time too.


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OfflineDMJ
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Hanky]
    #2130167 - 11/23/03 09:54 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with Hanky. And Anno.
Nothing to mist with?!?!?! Go to the local drugstore(mine is WrongAide) and get little sprayer for .50 cents each. You can fucking afford that, can't you? If not, spange that shit right out front.


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: DMJ]
    #2130225 - 11/23/03 10:53 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry on double post...

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...;o=&fpart=1

...but I think I will again, because the spin that you can only spray is not a rule I subscribe to.

****************************

If you're talking cased grain, yeah you can sure dunk 'em like a PF cake so I say nah to the nay-sayers...





Trays of 1st, 2nd & 3rd flush and on, with last pic showing a 5th flush of a tray. All trays were dunked after 1st flush and repeated for successive flushes after. I've gone as far as 6 dunks (7th flush) doing this. I'm not here bullshitting and it cranks the yields...shrooms are 90%+ water by weight. Water is the greatest limiting factor. Forget the spin you can only spray, bollocks.















Here's a 7th flush example, yep that be a 6th dunk.



When the tray is exhausted, this is what it looks like. Dunking gets the water into it. Shrooms in the wild cop big arse downpours of rain that saturate soil/substrate profiles, then drain to a field capacity. Folks, the mycelium will not drown if dunked overnight and as long as there's draiange holes on your trays, you'll be right.





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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Starter]
    #2130229 - 11/23/03 10:59 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Nobody said you CAN NOT dunk it. Of course you can. You can dunk your dog too.

But with casings It?s not needed, it?s much more work and it?s not better than simply throughly spraying it.


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Anno]
    #2130235 - 11/23/03 11:06 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

A brick & a tub, it gets the water in and it's hardly work.

Besides, the A. bisporus kits that are sold at the local supermarket do not recommend spraying as it compacts the casing layer. Yep, I found that happen. Best to dribble water from a beer bottle. Also the same with cubes.

In fact, where I haven't dunked, I'd dribble water on, or even tip a glass of water over the top and let it drain through. Dunking does a more thorough job.

I don't agree Anno.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Starter]
    #2130239 - 11/23/03 11:11 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

>A brick & a tub, it gets the water in and it's hardly work.

This might be true if you have 1 casing.

If you have 10 or 20 , then I?d like to see you still claiming not being more work....

The fact still stays, it?s unnecessary work.


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Anno]
    #2130245 - 11/23/03 11:18 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

If you're running 10 or 20 casings, you'd be going bulk.

I only spoke of grain case dunks. Manure/straw/compost holds more water than grain (hence why they're ideal soil ammendments) so it would be nutes, not water, that will be the limiting factor there.

In grain, as you know, the limiting factor is water, not nutes. To exploit that before the mycelium body withers in age, get the water in -- a dunk will do just that.



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Offlineshwowsh
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Starter]
    #2130409 - 11/23/03 01:44 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

damn starter, is that casing just grains, cased? which grains, which casing, thanks.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: shwowsh]
    #2130598 - 11/23/03 04:32 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

No -- the depth of your substrate determines the number of flushes. In a casing, as long as you added enough casing, the misting of the casing will provide enough water for the mushrooms to grow, which is why commercial growers do it this way -- they don't dunk their casings because there's no reason to.

I think dunking casings is silly. If it's dry, mist it.

I'm against it because I don't like my casings to get saturated -- I like the humidity down to prevent contamination. 90% of the contamination I've seen is because humidity was too high or water damage.

Like Anno said -- noone says you can't dunk your casings, but it isn't nessecary, IMO -- you can get just as many flushes from not dunking it. A grain casing of that depth should produce at least 5 flushes, anyway -- if it's 2" or less you'll get a smaller number of flushes.

--
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InvisibleStarter
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: micro]
    #2131296 - 11/23/03 11:14 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I realize my error now, I assumed that all could read and comprehend the English language.

I have been consistently referencing GRAIN, that's G-R-A-I-N.
shwowsh, millet to be precise mate, 60/40 cased top & bottom, and some had vermiculite added ratio 1, to 2 millet, as the substrate

It's beyond me why you would tell me that commercial growers mist BULK substrates.

Perhaps you could post some pics of your miraculous accomplishments with misting, I posted some mediocre results I had with dunking. I've done better but was lacking a digital as it was broken -- no pics means no documentation.

As for Anno (and I don't worship at any persona pulpit) re: "dunking his dog", well he might be as well off with that tek as he is with those cakes. :smirk: 


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InvisibleSixCee
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Starter]
    #2131307 - 11/23/03 11:20 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

There's too much negativity in here.  :shake:


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Offlinelittlejohn747
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: SixCee]
    #2131321 - 11/23/03 11:28 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

geez i am getting worked up just reading this thread but it is good stuff, besides if everyone agreed all the time then no one would every experment and their would be no progress made.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Starter]
    #2131932 - 11/24/03 10:06 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

>Perhaps you could post some pics of your miraculous accomplishments with misting,

Sure.






And now? Is this a proof that misting is better or worse than dunking? Off course not!
I never said dunking was bad. I said it was not needed for casings. And I stay with this claim.


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InvisibleSemilanceata
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Anno]
    #2131947 - 11/24/03 10:18 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Anno, you?re the best. :thumbup: :grin:

What do you have to say now, STARTER ?

I wish I had a digital camera so I could do the same as Anno. Besides, if you come to Spain, PM me and I will show you my stuff (without dunking).


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Semilanceata]
    #2131997 - 11/24/03 10:40 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

  :eek: 


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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Semilanceata]
    #2131998 - 11/24/03 10:42 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

i think starter wanted to try and prove that he gets MORE out of dunking his casings than by misting them, so that works best for HIM.

in all seriousness, who gives a fuck, me being a newbie, i learned from this thread that it doesnt necessarily matter at all whether u dunk or mist.  Since i would grow like anno, and grow a fuckload, i would just mist :smile: and keep it as convenient as possible.

now....if i happen to dunk my casing one day and it shows superior results, then i will think back to this discussion, and smile.


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OfflineMycoCat
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: ]
    #2132183 - 11/24/03 12:19 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Anno, do you just mist until the casing is saturated after each flush?

After seeing your pictures a detailed description of your technique would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for any help.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: MycoCat]
    #2132189 - 11/24/03 12:23 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

>Anno, do you just mist until the casing is saturated after each flush?

Yes, and after that I periodicaly mist so the casing never dries out.
It should be moist all the time, but not dripping wet.


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OfflineMycoCat
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Anno]
    #2132193 - 11/24/03 12:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Aren't you supposed to stop misting when the casing begins to fruit? Or do you just mist around the mushrooms?


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OfflineKentuckyPWRLFTR
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Anno]
    #2132200 - 11/24/03 12:28 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

You are correct, that proves absolutely nothing as anecdotal evidence is just that...

Although you later qualified it, the following categorical statement- combined with the unnecessary and sarcastic "dog dunking" comment- probably caused the problems: "I can only repeat myself: a casing is sprayed with water, not dunked." Someone with Starter's skills in MANY areas of the "vegetable" (in the Aristotealean, "animal, vegetable and mineral" sense) context is going to be defensive when their experience is completely different and has been made public.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: KentuckyPWRLFTR]
    #2132207 - 11/24/03 12:32 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

A little sarcasm now and then is what makes the life sweet :wink:

As for misting once the casing begins to fruit, read http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23446


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OfflineMycoCat
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Anno]
    #2132210 - 11/24/03 12:33 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Thank you Anno.


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Edited by MycoCat (11/24/03 12:34 PM)


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OfflineKentuckyPWRLFTR
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Semilanceata]
    #2132230 - 11/24/03 12:43 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I was going to post extolling the virtues of Starter but I don't care much for being an ass-kisser...Know what I mean? (Actually, I did give him some kudos)

What the hell did your post add to the discussion besides your wide-eyed wonder at Anno's bounty? Your post did nothing but needlessly slap at Starter when you weren't even involved in the discussion. If you want to compliment Anno that's one thing but the unnecessary slam on Starter is stupid.


--------------------
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure-dome decree...

"The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me."

OCD had rendered me completely insane and not believable.


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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: KentuckyPWRLFTR]
    #2132235 - 11/24/03 12:47 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

It's been proven that both methods work. This thread has run it's course.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Magash]
    #2132241 - 11/24/03 12:49 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

True.


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InvisibleSemilanceata
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: KentuckyPWRLFTR]
    #2132339 - 11/24/03 01:32 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Excuse me man, are you his big brother or something ? Maybe you should read the whole thread and see how he did enter the discussion saying : "I say no to the no sayers". He posted the same thing in another thread and if you read it I?m still waiting an answer. About stupidity, maybe you?re as stupid as me cause you didn?t add something new about what we were talking about here, at least I said something involved within this thread. You?re just acting like a judge, something no one is doing besides you.


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OfflineMycoCat
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Semilanceata]
    #2132418 - 11/24/03 02:09 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Who are you talking to?


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OfflineKentuckyPWRLFTR
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Semilanceata]
    #2132431 - 11/24/03 02:14 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Excuse me man, are you his big brother or something ?

*No. I am his friend.*

Maybe you should read the whole thread and see how he did enter the discussion saying : "I say no to the no sayers".

*I have read the whole thread, it was through the process of reading which I discovered the assinine "slap" post that you put up.*

He posted the same thing in another thread and if you read it I?m still waiting an answer.

*I could not possibly care less about what you posted in another thread.*

About stupidity, maybe you?re as stupid as me

*Nope, no way man...*

at least I said something involved within this thread.

*No. You typed a superfluous slap at Starter.*

You?re just acting like a judge, something no one is doing besides you.

*No. I merely made an observation as to your needless slap. You can like it or not, doesn't mean shit...*


--------------------
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure-dome decree...

"The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me."

OCD had rendered me completely insane and not believable.


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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Anno]
    #2132474 - 11/24/03 02:38 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Whatever floats your boat, sarcasm or not Anno.

Point is (if you dunk) you do so after 1st flush. Not before. And at risk of repeating, I'm talking cased grain. Can I see flushes after the 1st one thanks? After all, it's after the 1st flush where dunks are done (at risk of repeating) because they get the water sucked out of them on the 1st flush.

Bottom line, your 1st flush game-plan is the same as what I do, though I dribble with a syringe, not spray. Small difference. No dunk though. So the silly pic of "Dunk Free 100% Guaranteed" of a 1st flush tray pic is obviously more obfuscation.

I'm not here to make a scene, but getting water into post-1st flush trays (as per what I have done) works. 500 gram millet substrate gets very dry after it throws out greater than half a kg wet flush, to as high as 1030 grams wet (if I had a digital at the time i would have shown it). It sure sucks the wet stuff out of it. For the small personal grower -- dunking -- is a good way to play it to get the life giving liquid back into it and very easily too.

I'm not talking 10 or 20 trays. Obviously if you're running such numbers of trays, this won't be practical. What I speak of is for the small shroom grower and I have furnished pics that give that. But since I don't cash crop shrooms I won't be running 10 to 20 trays -- I'm a dope grower, got that Semilanceata -- I won't be growing large quantities of cubes. I grow for personal shrooms only.







Obviously Annos' take i.e. 10 to 20 trays is the cash-cropper shroom paradigm evident in the shroomery, and I have no prejudice to that.

(yes Anno, I'm aware you're in Austria and it's as legal as A.bisporus, so you can compost them as soon as grow them -- but that's not the caper for the commerical op US cubie growers.

However who would be doing grains at that level? I never suggested that. It would be obviously logical to use it as spawn, which would serve 10 to even 20 times the distance as spawn on bulk. Bulk of course would fail in a dunk, it would hold far too much water. Same again, if you were crazy enough to do cased grains in large numbers...because dunking large numbers of trays would be impractical.

It would be just as impractical too if you tried FIM or super cropping on commercial scale Cannabis grows, but absolutely ideal for the closet cultivator. I suggest walk in the other guy's moccasins and you'll see it from both ends. Small scale and dunks are fine.


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InvisibleSemilanceata
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: KentuckyPWRLFTR]
    #2132521 - 11/24/03 02:59 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KentuckyPWRLFTR said:

About stupidity, maybe you?re as stupid as me

*Nope, no way man...*






Sorry man I was wrong, after reading your reply I can tell you are 3 or 4 time more stupid.


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OfflineKentuckyPWRLFTR
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Semilanceata]
    #2132540 - 11/24/03 03:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Coming from a total cretin, I can hardly take offense, but...


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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Starter]
    #2132552 - 11/24/03 03:17 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Nice little bud set up you have.















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Re: how do you dunk a casing? *DELETED* [Re: TRS]
    #2133043 - 11/24/03 07:24 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by supernaut


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Offlinefungulus
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: littlejohn747]
    #2133170 - 11/24/03 08:16 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Dunk your spawn.


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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Semilanceata]
    #2133688 - 11/24/03 11:57 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)



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InvisibleStarter
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: supernaut]
    #2133881 - 11/25/03 01:44 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

supernaut,
>>>Yo starter, way to stir things up!!!

It can be like that in here, people will not read what you post and then fly off into some autistic orbit.


>>>>After your first flush, you dunk. Do you do anything to the top layer like remove old knots/pins, patch, add whole layer?

After 1st flush, pick off all fruits, including small lagger pins. Have a clean canvas. Then dunk. Yes, you might get a few pins show up while it was dunked aka growing under the water...just pick them off after the dunk. You'll be setting up for a whole new flush. So set a clean stage.

Once submerged overnight, anywhere from 6 to 8hrs (though I've gone longer to 18hrs and no probs), lift it out of the drink and let it drain 30 minutes. So use a flower pot or planter tub as your shroom tray growing vessel with the drainage holes left open.

That's why I use a 60/40 bottom case of 1/2", so it's only inert matter exposed at the drainage holes (not substrate). Same game play as how the 60/40 top case layer is inert to the open air above. You should also use catch trays too so you don't get muck in the terrarium. They may need to be drained out too several hours later.

I've played around with a few things, but this is what I find works:
In successive flushes and therefore dunks, re-patch any lost top-cased 60/40 -- be it from what floats off in the dunk to what was lost when you removed the fruits. If the casing shrinks, which it often does after a flush, then tamper gently some 60/40 material down the side walls with a clean plastic chop stick, or with any clean tool you like. This will stop the next flush from growing invitro. Needless to say, use a light proof container. That's easier than lining trays in foil, which all too often rip or work their way loose or block up the drainage holes.

Final note:
A dunked post-1st flush and yonder 'successive-flushes' tray/s will not super saturate, as the mycelium body is hydrophobic and it will float like a cork. Many people experience this with PF cakes. So you'll need a brick or some other heavy object to hold it under. I haven't found dunked trays to go anaerobic and contam because they resist water getting in, which is why I dunk. It's a battle to get the water back in after a water robbing flush. I haven't though, tested a dunk on a newly made case, because it would simply disintegrate as it hasn't mended. It's after 1st flush that the mycelium body sets like a concrete, bonding to the top and bottom 60/40 case layers and can therefore take the unorthodox treatment.


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InvisibleHanky
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Tremor1127]
    #2134068 - 11/25/03 02:57 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tremor1127 said:
Quote:

Semilanceata said:
Anno, you?re the best. :thumbup: :grin:

What do you have to say now, STARTER ?

I wish I had a digital camera so I could do the same as Anno. Besides, if you come to Spain, PM me and I will show you my stuff (without dunking). 




your a tard... 




i have to agree with you there. :smile: 


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: Hanky]
    #2134401 - 11/25/03 09:48 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Starter -- I thought we were all talking about grain -- grain is what Stamets is talking about in the casing chapter of TMC, too.

Go ahead, everyone -- dunk your casings :wink:  I have my own ways of doing things, and I try to stick to them.  Like I said -- everyone has their own niche -- I don't really understand how this thread turned into an argument.

MY ANSWER:

Can you dunk your casings?  Yes.
Should you dunk your casings?  That's up to you.
Will I ever dunk a casing?  No.
Why not?  See my last post.

If you like dunking your casings, go for it, but I like to keep the humidity down to a minimum because this will help to keep contamination down.  That's just the route I go -- the route I've always taken, and since I've never had an actual problem with contamination I like to do things my way.  Like I said, though -- individual results always vary -- what works better for me might not work better for you....

(JMO)

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InvisibleStarter
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: micro]
    #2135021 - 11/25/03 03:03 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

that's cool micro, though I have a low R/H in my climate.

Use whatever works best for you. I agree. :smile:


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Papaver [Re: Starter]
    #2139746 - 11/27/03 08:00 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)



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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: ]
    #2140049 - 11/27/03 12:37 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Just add some h202 to kill of contams, the casing will be okay since mycelium can survive h202.


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Offlinefungulus
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Re: how do you dunk a casing? [Re: fungulus]
    #2252854 - 01/19/04 03:37 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with dunking your spawn. I've also read that garden sprayers work well for saturating casings. I've had many casings dry out before thier time and will try anything to keep them moist other than dunking. It seems to me that contamination will be an issue. (I know it's an old post, just my 2 cents.)
BTW nice ScrOG setup, Starter!

Peace.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation >> Mushroom Cultivation Archive >> Casing

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