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Nativenglish
Novice


Registered: 04/16/12
Posts: 679
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Spore Drop
#21297751 - 02/19/15 09:22 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hi Fellas, I have a couple questions regarding spore drop...
First, what is the mechanism by which spores end up on the tops of the caps? I always thought that the dark brown spore stains were from taller mushrooms dropping spore onto the shorter mushrooms. I've since seen that even the first and tallest fruits end up with spore stains on their tops, and don't understand how this is happening. Is there some process at work whereby the spore are migrating through the caps to the tops of the fruits? I know it's pretty useless information, but I just want to know for the general understanding of the thing.
The second question is regarding what message is sent to the other fruiting cakes, after spore drop. I have read that a spore drop signals the other cakes that it's time to stop or slow production. This was a very old thread, and I'm wondering if this still holds true?
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bw86
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the air currents bring them to the top thats it.Spores dont just drop out they come out super fast like a projectile. also i have no clue about your 2nd question.
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silverstem
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Re: Spore Drop [Re: bw86]
#21297768 - 02/19/15 09:25 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nativenglish said: The second question is regarding what message is sent to the other fruiting cakes, after spore drop. I have read that a spore drop signals the other cakes that it's time to stop or slow production. This was a very old thread, and I'm wondering if this still holds true?
this info is true that is why we want to pick right after the veil tares.
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Hashish
Knowledge is Power



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the spores are pushed up from air pressure i believe. but i may be wrong. im sure someone will chime in with more knowledge than me
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bw86
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Quote:
silverstem said:
Quote:
Nativenglish said: The second question is regarding what message is sent to the other fruiting cakes, after spore drop. I have read that a spore drop signals the other cakes that it's time to stop or slow production. This was a very old thread, and I'm wondering if this still holds true?
this info is true that is why we want to pick right after the veil tares.
link please
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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Re: Spore Drop [Re: bw86]
#21297810 - 02/19/15 09:34 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bw86 said: the air currents bring them to the top thats it.Spores dont just drop out they come out super fast like a projectile. also i have no clue about your 2nd question.
I agree completely that it's convection--heat from the substrate causes a rising air current, which forms an eddy at the edge of the mushroom cap and deposits spores there. But when spores come out, yes, it's super fast like a projectile, but air resistance slows them down at less than the distance to the next gill over, so they're falling nearly straight down by the time they've gone a millimeter and a half.
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Really Nice Guy


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Re: Spore Drop [Re: bw86]
#21297818 - 02/19/15 09:35 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bw86 said:
Quote:
silverstem said:
Quote:
Nativenglish said: The second question is regarding what message is sent to the other fruiting cakes, after spore drop. I have read that a spore drop signals the other cakes that it's time to stop or slow production. This was a very old thread, and I'm wondering if this still holds true?
this info is true that is why we want to pick right after the veil tares.
link please
I can't think of any sources by my own experience for this, but I've had much trouble trying to get purple substrate to pin again for a second flush.
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bw86
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ill take your word for it i never took it in to consideration but i guess i have seen the same thing. I wonder if spores from another specie could have the opposite effect.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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Re: Spore Drop [Re: bw86]
#21297843 - 02/19/15 09:41 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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It would be interesting to find out--especially if it were a competitor, like Pan cyans.
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Nativenglish
Novice


Registered: 04/16/12
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Yeah, that would be a cool experiment. This fruit here grew over the top of another cake, and even though I harvested right AT veil tearing, it still turned the top of the other cake purple/brown. Do you think I should take the cake and rinse it off? These cakes are just warming up for their first flush...
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silverstem
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Re: Spore Drop [Re: bw86]
#21297865 - 02/19/15 09:48 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bw86 said:
Quote:
silverstem said:
Quote:
Nativenglish said: The second question is regarding what message is sent to the other fruiting cakes, after spore drop. I have read that a spore drop signals the other cakes that it's time to stop or slow production. This was a very old thread, and I'm wondering if this still holds true?
this info is true that is why we want to pick right after the veil tares.
link please
here a tc said it thats why i believe it lol.
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13 
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Quote:
silverstem said:
Quote:
Nativenglish said: The second question is regarding what message is sent to the other fruiting cakes, after spore drop. I have read that a spore drop signals the other cakes that it's time to stop or slow production. This was a very old thread, and I'm wondering if this still holds true?
this info is true that is why we want to pick right after the veil tares.
This is very false. I'm pretty sure in one of my threads I documented the debunking of this myth. As long as their is moisture and nutrition the mycelium will continue to produce fruit. I left one tub without picking for at least 7 flushes.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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Re: Spore Drop [Re: tbagtag]
#21297900 - 02/19/15 09:54 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'd love to see that.
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bw86
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im sure your one project proved it...  do you know how experiments take place? 1 of anything cant prove shit...
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wowimflabbergasted
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Re: Spore Drop [Re: bw86]
#21297919 - 02/19/15 09:57 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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You didn't harvest a tub for 7 flushes.....?
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Nativenglish
Novice


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Re: Spore Drop [Re: tbagtag]
#21297929 - 02/19/15 10:00 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't know, but after thinking about it a little, it seems if it were true, that it would be a very important thing for everyone to know. I would think that practices would have been developed to avoid this alleged characteristic. The fact that it is a relatively unknown thing, would lead me to believe there is little credence to it.
I would like to see your thread if you could post it here somewhere.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
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elastic tiger did that too. he had a wild fire rage thru his town last year, and he had to abandon everything. he texted me a picture of the tubs when he got back, and it was crazy. flushes on top of flushes. weird shit, black stuff everywhere. hopefully he reads this and will post.
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silverstem
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Re: Spore Drop [Re: tbagtag]
#21297948 - 02/19/15 10:06 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
tbagtag said:
Quote:
silverstem said:
Quote:
Nativenglish said: The second question is regarding what message is sent to the other fruiting cakes, after spore drop. I have read that a spore drop signals the other cakes that it's time to stop or slow production. This was a very old thread, and I'm wondering if this still holds true?
this info is true that is why we want to pick right after the veil tares.
This is very false. I'm pretty sure in one of my threads I documented the debunking of this myth. As long as their is moisture and nutrition the mycelium will continue to produce fruit. I left one tub without picking for at least 7 flushes.
it may be false concoir wasnt a tc back then. but i havent seen any tc's debunk this myth so i still believe in it... better safe then sorry. you know what i mean.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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Quote:
silverstem said: it may be false concoir wasnt a tc back then. but i havent seen any tc's debunk this myth so i still believe in it... better safe then sorry. you know what i mean.

Good point. That was before he levelled up and became infallible.
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blindingleaf
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i mean regardless of if its true or not, spores taste like shit, and they get everywhere, so its better to pick upon veil breaking in most circumstances unless u want prints.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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That's when I pick for prints, too. They'll still sporulate.
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wowimflabbergasted
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This is nasty too.
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blindingleaf
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ewww. i have read with oysters in warmer climates, you can get a lot of gnat problems with the spores. bugs bring mold, or spread mold thats already present. i wonder if the same could be said for cubes??
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Nativenglish
Novice


Registered: 04/16/12
Posts: 679
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Quote:
silverstem said:
Quote:
tbagtag said:
Quote:
silverstem said:
Quote:
Nativenglish said: The second question is regarding what message is sent to the other fruiting cakes, after spore drop. I have read that a spore drop signals the other cakes that it's time to stop or slow production. This was a very old thread, and I'm wondering if this still holds true?
this info is true that is why we want to pick right after the veil tares.
This is very false. I'm pretty sure in one of my threads I documented the debunking of this myth. As long as their is moisture and nutrition the mycelium will continue to produce fruit. I left one tub without picking for at least 7 flushes.
it may be false concoir wasnt a tc back then. but i havent seen any tc's debunk this myth so i still believe in it... better safe then sorry. you know what i mean.

Yeah, but Roger Rabbit was, and that's who concoir was quoting. Re-read the post.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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I don't care which TC said it. I don't like trading TC quotes like baseball cards, and they have no currency with me. If a TC wants to weigh in and say they feel one way or the other NOW, great. But things change. TCs change their mind. And we should never get caught in the trap of treating TC advice like the gospel.
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Sarah Tonin
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Registered: 04/01/14
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Shouldn't even treat the gospel like it's gospel; change happens, we gotta' roll .
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silverstem
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Quote:
van der griegen said: I don't care which TC said it. I don't like trading TC quotes like baseball cards, and they have no currency with me. If a TC wants to weigh in and say they feel one way or the other NOW, great. But things change. TCs change their mind. And we should never get caught in the trap of treating TC advice like the gospel.
I trust experience that's why I trust tcs.
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Nativenglish
Novice


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Quote:
van der griegen said: I don't care which TC said it. I don't like trading TC quotes like baseball cards, and they have no currency with me. If a TC wants to weigh in and say they feel one way or the other NOW, great. But things change. TCs change their mind. And we should never get caught in the trap of treating TC advice like the gospel.
Roger Rabbit, a Trusted Cultivator? I think that RR is the TC to TC's. More like a TMG.......Trusted Mushroom God. 
*but I get your point
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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Okay. So what makes you think someone like SBJ or Pasty has more experience than someone like bw or hamloaf? The tag?
RR is no God and I've seen him making shit up several times. And he stayed the TC to TCs for so long because he was the one who gave and took away tags.
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bw86
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TC are proven to be knowledgeable people. Tc's were also put into effect because mods are lazy and wanted/needed people to answer question when they didn't want to. back in the day we would wait for a mod to look at our post and chime in.Now they dont need to.
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Nativenglish
Novice


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Quote:
van der griegen said:
RR is no God and I've seen him making shit up several times..
Dude, can I use this in my sig?
-------------------- The government which governs least, governs best...
Edited by Nativenglish (02/19/15 11:39 AM)
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bw86
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c'mon i love talking shit about people but c'mon they guy just left and has had a greater influence on our whole community then 99% of the people on the forums. I might not have ever watch "lets grow mushrooms" but i still might not be here if it wasn't for him.
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shroominmyroom
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Edited by shroominmyroom (12/05/17 12:56 PM)
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tbagtag
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Re: Spore Drop [Re: bw86]
#21298794 - 02/19/15 12:51 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bw86 said: im sure your one project proved it...  do you know how experiments take place? 1 of anything cant prove shit...
Absolutely I do, when I'm not on a tablet I'll dig out the thread you can review my methods. After that you can make an educated snarky comment.
Others had spores drop and still have additional fruits. It did increase the time in between flushes, I want to say the last flush was 6 weeks out.
The biggest reason you really want to pick when the veil tears(besides spores taste like shit) is that only water weight is gained and no more additional actives are produced.
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bw86
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Re: Spore Drop [Re: tbagtag]
#21298820 - 02/19/15 12:56 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
tbagtag said: Absolutely I do, when I'm not on a tablet I'll dig out the thread you can review my methods. After that you can make an educated snarky comment.

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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Quote:
van der griegen said: I don't care which TC said it. I don't like trading TC quotes like baseball cards, and they have no currency with me. If a TC wants to weigh in and say they feel one way or the other NOW, great. But things change. TCs change their mind. And we should never get caught in the trap of treating TC advice like the gospel.
But I'm an atheist. . .
A fair point on changing of the mind tho. I change my viewpoints when I am given a reason to do so and I am sure any cultivator worth their salt does the same. Its all part of the learning process and no good TC or veteran cultivator is ever done learning. To be able to change your viewpoint on something makes for a better cultivator in the long run.
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blindingleaf
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Quote:
To be able to change your viewpoint on something makes for a better cultivator in the long run.
QFT. to be as humble as the mushrooms we grow takes patience in and of itself. those who grow a lot know that there are so many ways to do something successfully that to dogmatically preach just one is heresy.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Pastywhyte
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I like to think of much of it as preferences. I have my preference and I will vigorously advocate it. But that doesn't ever mean that there are not other methods. I try everything at least once otherwise I am not entitled to an opinion on it. Personally I dislike the idea of using spores to inoculate any substrate. That does not stop pf tek from still being one of the most reliable methods there is.
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blindingleaf
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yea i was thinking "preferences" is really the best way to put it.
i think people settle into the hobby for different reasons maybe. i first started growing because i loved to trip, so i went with the easiest way possible, namely CVG. but then, i got more addicted to the growing aspect, and started varying lot of stuff i do, which is where i am still at. as long as people come out on top with healthy mushrooms, and are having fun, then thats all that should matter.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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cronicr



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-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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Nativenglish
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All this philosophizing and still no answer to the fundamental question of, "Does spore drop send some kind of signals to slow or stop production of fruits in ajoining cakes?".....or even the mother cake?
The fact that we don't seem to know is as interesting to me as knowing what the mechanism itself might be. It is an important question though as far as anyone who is interested in yield...
I would do an experiment myself except for the fact that I'm a noob and don't know shit.
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Pastywhyte
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There are so many variables its gonna be hard to say. Even with lets say an isolate run side by side your gonna have issues narrowing that down. The consesus is yes it has a negative effect but to what degree no one can say. Such an experiment would need to be run several times and with different sets of isolated genetics to really come up with something definitive.
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Nativenglish
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: There are so many variables its gonna be hard to say. Even with lets say an isolate run side by side your gonna have issues narrowing that down. The consesus is yes it has a negative effect but to what degree no one can say. Such an experiment would need to be run several times and with different sets of isolated genetics to really come up with something definitive.
Yeah, I'm totally with you... I'm sure it would be an involved experiment, but god, think of how important this bit of knowledge is. This is something that really does need a definitive answer. I mean this might be very important......particularly to those who are growing on a commercial scale.
Even if it effects the production by only 10% either way........well, that's HUGE percentage to a commercial grower.
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Psilicon
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I think even deciding on the dependent variable would be a nightmare. It would help to know, but it's pretty far down my list of experiments I want to do because as others have said, there are a couple other really good reasons not to let them sporulate.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Quote:
Nativenglish said: All this philosophizing and still no answer to the fundamental question of, "Does spore drop send some kind of signals to slow or stop production of fruits in ajoining cakes?".....or even the mother cake?
The fact that we don't seem to know is as interesting to me as knowing what the mechanism itself might be. It is an important question though as far as anyone who is interested in yield...
I would do an experiment myself except for the fact that I'm a noob and don't know shit. 
I don't know or care. Spores taste terrible.
People get TC tags for different reasons. "trusted" is the key word. It's not that we know everything or are always right. The TC tag is mostly for noobs to know who to give more weight to in a debate on how to get started and TC's mostly tend to only debate about shit that kind of matters.
Once you get to a certain skill level, a TC tag is pretty meaningless. But, if you are beginner, the TC tag has a lot of value.
There are others I feel are better, more knowledgeable, and have more experience than I do. That doesn't take away my ability to help beginners get it figured out though. And that's really what the tag is all about.
So stop all the TC worship and quoting. If you understand what's going on, you should be able to put it in your own words. If you can't put it in your own words or have your own experience to go off of, then you probably don't need to be telling it to people.
Not to anyone in particular.
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Pastywhyte
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Most people who grow cubes on a big scale rarely go for more than one, maybe two flushes at most anyway.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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-------------------- The Basics
A little civility goes a long way
The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: There are so many variables its gonna be hard to say. Even with lets say an isolate run side by side your gonna have issues narrowing that down. The consesus is yes it has a negative effect but to what degree no one can say. Such an experiment would need to be run several times and with different sets of isolated genetics to really come up with something definitive.
agreed, and i believe the tests done which RR talks about probably wasn't even cubes, something to consider
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
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tbagtag
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Re: Spore Drop [Re: cronicr]
#21300021 - 02/19/15 05:03 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: There are so many variables its gonna be hard to say. Even with lets say an isolate run side by side your gonna have issues narrowing that down. The consesus is yes it has a negative effect but to what degree no one can say. Such an experiment would need to be run several times and with different sets of isolated genetics to really come up with something definitive.
agreed, and i believe the tests done which RR talks about probably wasn't even cubes, something to consider
That and knowledge/learning never stops. One example I could give with RR is the with lighting methods for mushroom growth. Type of light,duration,and intensity changed as he even went further.
I still stand by the fact that sporation will not kill the mycelium. Either that or every batch I had that nutted on itself and still grew was the elusive Jesus Christ strain of cubes.
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